[Poll]Your prediction of the escalating trade taxes...

[notimp]

Ehm, I think you've got that reversed.

Oh, and this wasnt directed at you @supersonicwaffle , it was aimed at the thread starter. Sorry that I dint make that clearer.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Some on here are geographically challenged so I'll make this straight to the point; Russia is a country split between two continents, that is, Europe and Asia but its people are Slavic Europeans.

Like the Portuguese and Spanish, the Russian and Ukrainian have their similarities but their language is still different and the Ukrainians tend to hate if you think they're Russian (because of the history behind it).

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becoming a nationalist

Careful with that.

US being the world's greatest economy

The U.S. has a debt of trillions.

 

[notimp]

The U.S. has a debt of trillions.

Yes, but its still the world reserve currency. And the only currency oil can be paid in.

(current US Government Debt to GDP is 106.10 percent)

So if everyone needs USD, you can bulk up dept to a much higher extent, because - everyone still needs USD, and they will still have a similar demand for it weither you inflate it (moneypool) or not.

Thats whats at stake:

Ups, the US are getting f'cked.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...s-toothless/articleshow/69095599.cms?from=mdr

And here is how:
https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ne-marie-slaughter-and-elina-ribakova-2019-07

 

[notimp]

Also, on the nuclear war scare. If it ever comes to that, europe is gone within minutes. Lets try everyone having an economy then. (This is also partly why Europe is so much into trade and less into military prowess, although now we have to pay more to keep our trade routes secure, thanks to the US.)

Current 'danger' of nuclear warfare is on the rise again, because arsenals are currently overdue to be replaced again (and you dont replace them with the same stuff, you replace them with better stuff.. ), and the idea of 'locally restrictable' nuclear warefare (smaller more precise nukes) becomes possible with the newer stuff.

None of this is a direct contingency for trade wars though. All your synapses are doing is going from hearing the word trade war for the first time, directly to 'omg - we are all going to die', and thats your fault. Educate yourself for once. Not stumbling into the youtube BS that you like to post most of the time. Idk. start by not watching youtube. Get a friend to not primarily watch youtube to understand whats going on in the world. Read.

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Here - current world problems:

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...y-2-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=main-article-a2

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ies-by-galip-dalay-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ini-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=main-article-a2

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ce-by-erik-berglof-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...y-daron-acemoglu-2019-08&a_pa=spotlight&a_ps=

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...oseph-e-stiglitz-2019-08&a_pa=spotlight&a_ps=

Damn it - I dont find Trump in any one of those stories. Ok, in the last one - but even there he only pops up for branding.

Once you've understood all those stories (their political impact) - you've come a little closer to understanding global relations.

 

[notimp]

@supersonicwaffle

Here, this is another potential explanation for why there is a difference between steel tariffs and the current US/China trade war. I got lucky.

Finally, there is an important difference between the 2008 global financial crisis and the negative supply shocks that could hit the global economy today. Because the former was mostly a large negative aggregate demand shock that depressed growth and inflation, it was appropriately met with monetary and fiscal stimulus. But this time, the world would be confronting sustained negative supply shocks [meaning, brexit for the brits, or permanent trade disputes US/china] that would require a very different kind of policy response over the medium term. Trying to undo the damage through never-ending monetary and fiscal stimulus will not be a sensible option.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ini-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=main-article-a2

One is deemed 'rather permanent'. Thats also a way to look at it. My explanation in parts is better though. The 'cant be met by inflating your own currency' explaination we've got in common.

 

[morvoran]

I'm not against increasing taxes, it's a matter of what those taxes pay for. As it stands now they're paying for absolutely nothing except a giant foreign policy blunder.

I'm surprised you're saying that welfare programs are "absolutely nothing" figuring that over half of our taxes go towards them. Sounds kinda heartless, wow.

Not to mention your "nationalist" president is the one who imposed these taxes on us, but I suppose hypocrisy is to be expected from every Republican politician by now.

Thanks to those "increased taxes", workers earnings growth is improving at a faster rate than corporations growth even with their tax cuts.

China is both more disciplined and more authoritarian, so it's easy for them to stop buying the goods they've put tariffs on. The same can't be said of the US. We haven't stopped buying Chinese goods with tariffs on them, or even slowed down our consumption of those goods. Which means we aren't hurting their economy at all, only our own. Even despite the unrest in Hong Kong, we're the ones on the cusp of an economic recession, not China.

Well, just wait a couple months, and we'll regroup about this. I think you'll be surprised. Edit: I just heard this morning that China is ready to "give up" because their economy is suffering so bad. So give it a couple of days instead of months. You'll still be surprised.

Careful with that.

. Huh? Why's that? I didn't say "white" in front of it. Loving your country is not a bad thing.

The U.S. has a debt of trillions.

. Notimp covered this well enough, but I'll add to it. What you must assume by saying that is similar to wondering how a person with credit card debt has an excellent credit score even though they own the credit card company.

 

[supersonicwaffle]

@supersonicwaffle

Here, this is another potential explanation for why there is a difference between steel tariffs and the current US/China trade war. I got lucky.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...ini-2019-08&a_pa=curated&a_ps=main-article-a2

One is deemed 'rather permanent'. Thats also a way to look at it. My explanation in parts is better though. The 'cant be met by inflating your own currency' explaination we've got in common.

I don't know how you read anything about the EU's steel tarrifs into the article that doesn't mention it at all, like AT ALL.

I also can't tell whether the author is just trying to revive the 90s meme of connected toasters or is in fact so blinded by the hype about 5G that he doesn't realize what's actually going on.

Lower Saxony has decided to stop funding for digital radio recently, one of the explanations given would be that the money would be better spent in 5G for radio while a 5G broadcasting mode isn't close to being standardized and is still dependant on a lot of moving parts. That's just some of the ludicrousness surrounding 5G right now.
Experts so far are clear that 5G will not be more than an iterative improvement on 4G for the forseeable time, as a matter of fact, most of the improvements it will bring short term could be done in 4G. 5G does open up new possibilities down the line though.

 

[notimp]

I'm surprised you're saying that welfare programs are "absolutely nothing" figuring that over half of our taxes go towards them. Sounds kinda heartless, wow.

Boy, you are just not smart - are you?

src: https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-does-social-security-work

The rest are disabled workers, and spouses.

The welfare programs are nothing, because they are basic level income guarantees for people that cant work - mostly - anymore. If you don't spend that money, you have the entire old population begging in the streets. Kind of ruining public moral and productivity.

This is not something you can argue as being an act of great social conscience, or high aspirational, modern, better society building.

Unbelievable..

More information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

edit: It also encompasses unemployment benefits.

What, do you want applause for not letting your old people starve? A medal? How about a nobel peace price?

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Here is total spending:

Here is discretionary spending:

Discretionary spending is the portion of the federal budget that Congress determines annually in the appropriations process and accounts for 28 percent of all spending in the president’s proposed 2016 budget. It does not include earned benefits programs that people pay into like Social Security and Medicare. This chart shows how the president would allocate that spending.

Both under Obama.
src: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2015/presidents-2016-budget-in-pictures/

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I don't know how you read anything about the EU's steel tarrifs into the article that doesn't mention it at all, like AT ALL.

Yes.

Because:

the former [the former being the 2018 financial crisis, that caused the overproduction of steel, an subsequently the steel tariffs] was mostly a large negative aggregate demand shock that depressed growth and inflation, it was appropriately met with monetary and fiscal stimulus.

And steel tarrifs were:

mostly a large negative aggregate demand shock that depressed growth and inflation, it was appropriately met [by the chinese] with monetary and fiscal stimulus.

While the impact from the current trade wars would be:

the world would be confronting sustained negative supply shocks [meaning, Brexit for the Brits - less products for the Brits, or permanent trade disputes US/China - less products for the US/China] that would require a very different kind of policy response over the medium term [meaning lower living standards]. Trying to undo the damage through never-ending monetary and fiscal stimulus [= free money (as the chinese gave their steel workers)] will not be a sensible option. [= the Chinese think, that they can't do much about it, other than making their societies unhappy.]

I'm almost done speaking to people who cant extract meaning out of written texts.

Go to your fast food chains, watch NFL, drink beer, bye.

 

[morvoran]

Boy, you are just not smart - are you?

I'm smart enough to know that social security is a welfare program. I'm not just talking about food stamps. Taking care of the disabled and elderly is a part of welfare.

Source: thebalance.com
Federal Spending Breakdown
Almost two-thirds of federal spending goes toward paying the benefits required by Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. These are part of mandatory spending. Those are programs established by prior Acts of Congress.

The interest payments on the national debt consume 10% of the budget. These are also required to maintain faith in the U.S. government.

The remaining 30% of spending goes toward discretionary spending. This pays for all federal government agencies. The largest is the military.

Source: thenationalreview.com
That leaves us with the welfare category, the only area of federal spending that has grown significantly relative to the size of the U.S. economy. In 1957, it was 3.9 percent of GDP—not insignificant, to be sure; that’s a slightly larger figure than our present-day military spending. But welfare entitlement spending in 2015 is 15.2 percent of GDP. Which is to say, broadly defined welfare spending alone is equal to 86 percent of all the federal taxes that are going to be collected this year. Most of that is Social Security, health-care spending, traditional welfare, and federal education spending, which has grown substantially despite the fact that most education spending happens at the state and local level.

 

[IncredulousP]

. Huh? Why's that? I didn't say "white" in front of it. Loving your country is not a bad thing.

I think the word you are looking for is patriot, not nationalist.

Patriotism: "love for or devotion to one's country.
//'Although poles apart ideologically, they are both unashamed of their patriotism.— Christopher Hemphill'"


Nationalism: "exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
//'Intense nationalism was one of the causes of the war.'"
Synonyms: chauvinism, jingoism

Nationalism - think Nazis.


From the Merriam-Webster page on Nationalism.

The Difference Between Nationalism, Patriotism, Sectionalism, and Jingoism
Nationalism has a number of near-synonyms, each of which carries its own distinct meaning. Patriotism is similar insofar as it emphasizes strong feelings for one’s country, but it does not necessarily imply an attitude of superiority. Sectionalism resembles nationalism in its suggestion of a geopolitical group pursuing its self-interest, but the group in question is usually smaller than an entire nation. Jingoism closely resembles nationalism in suggesting feelings of cultural superiority, but unlike nationalism, it always implies military aggressiveness.


Examples of nationalism in a Sentence

The war was caused by nationalism and greed.
Nazism's almost epic nationalism appealed to downtrodden Germans still suffering the humiliation of being defeated in World War I.


Recent Examples on the Web

"At a time when anti-Semitic incidents have increased — due to the president’s emboldening of white nationalism — Trump is repeating an anti-Semitic trope." — Darlene Superville, Twin Cities, "Trump: Any Jew voting Democratic is uninformed or disloyal," 21 Aug. 2019

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

 

[notimp]

That leaves us with the welfare category, the only area of federal spending that has grown significantly relative to the size of the U.S. economy.

Aha, you have more old people (demographic shift), and?

Ping me once you get it.
-

Here is the extra slow explaination. Old people. Cant work. Need money to survive. Part of that is private ensurance programs. Larger part of that is state 'support'. But people still work - having that idea, that they get retirement benefits, right? That they 'earned them'. So once you substract - the "fixed spending" there, which btw also comes from not having the spouses and children from men you let being shot to death in other countries - starve to death -

you are left with the disgressionary spending budget.

On disgressionary spending (= the more than the bare minimum to keep the system running), you spend 3% on social security and unemployment. Thats nothing.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the California problem of having homeless people die on streets - and having Kanye freaking West build shelter for them. Thats your social consciousness. (Where the 'more than the fixed spending' comes from in reality.)
-


Here was my path to 'solving this logically'.

"Weird - half of every countries spendings usually are retirement benefits, by now."
"I wonder where the US gets their third half of potential spending, knowing that they spend half of their budget on military anyhow."
"Oh weird, they call retirement spending (other than private ensurance funds) 'social security'"
"Oh, and now some people think, that thats just pro bono (think Bono ) spending."
"Lol"

 

[morvoran]

I think the word you are looking for is patriot, not nationalist.

No, I know what I said. Nationalist, not nationalism. Just like JLP (my avatar pic), I'm not into "ism"s. Patriot also works.

Nationalism - think Nazis.

Um, I'd rather not. I do think the US is the greatest country in the world, but I'm not into killing our own people. Sorry if you feel the opposite way. I heard Canada is still excepting illegal immigrants and giving them free checks right after they cross. Just saying.

Aha, you have more old people (demographic shift), and?

Ping me once you get it.

Oh, I get it, alright. You just can't admit that I'm smarter than you and that you were WRONG!!!

 

[IncredulousP]

No, I know what I said. Nationalist, not nationalism. Just like JLP (my avatar pic), I'm not into "ism"s. Patriot also works.

Um, I rather not. I do think the US is the greatest country in the world, but I'm not into killing our own people. Sorry if you feel the opposite way. I heard Canada is still excepting illegal immigrants and giving them free checks right after they cross. Just saying.



Oh, I get it, alright. You just can't admit that I'm smarter than you and that you were WRONG!!!

Ok dude, you're right. You're a genius, we're all wrong and evil and you are the saving grace that the world needs most. Godspeed, @morvoran !

 

[morvoran]

Ok dude, you're right. You're a genius, we're all wrong and evil and you are the saving grace that the world needs most. Godspeed, @morvoran !

Finally, somebody cracked the code. Thanks for coming to your senses.

@notimp You need to pay attention to this guy. He gets it.

But seriously, you can love your country, think it's the best country in the world, AND not be a nazi. When you start wanting to commit violence against others and try to silence them because you don't agree with them, then you are a nazi fascist (or fascist nazi, whichever).

As long as you can agree to not use identity politics in your decisions and not attack free speech, I guess you can stay.

Back to topic -
UPDATE ON TRADE WAR between US and China: It was reported this morning, Monday Aug 26th, that China is ready to negotiate with the US to end the trade war due to the major decline of their economy.

Looks like Trump has done it again. Another win for his book.
I have to admit that he is winning so much that I'm getting tired of winning! /jk

 

[Xzi]

I'm surprised you're saying that welfare programs are "absolutely nothing" figuring that over half of our taxes go towards them. Sounds kinda heartless, wow.

The thread topic isn't taxes in general, nor was that what I was referencing. Don't be intentionally dense.

Thanks to those "increased taxes", workers earnings growth is improving at a faster rate than corporations growth even with their tax cuts.

Wages have been entirely stagnant under the Trump administration, and tariffs can only affect them negatively.

Well, just wait a couple months, and we'll regroup about this. I think you'll be surprised. Edit: I just heard this morning that China is ready to "give up" because their economy is suffering so bad. So give it a couple of days instead of months. You'll still be surprised.

No, I don't think I will be. The best-case result is that the entire world goes into economic recession rather than only the US. Not a positive thing regardless.

 

[RandomUser]

Taking care of the disabled and elderly is a part of welfare.

How is it a welfare if they paid into the system? It seems fair to expect at least some of that money back from Social Security, as that is a mean for income that they paid into it. Often times they pay more into the system then the receive back. After all that is what Social Security is a form of retirement income for the elderly.

 

[morvoran]

How is it a welfare if they paid into the system? It seems fair to expect at least some of that money back from Social Security, as that is a mean for income that they paid into it. Often times they pay more into the system then the receive back. After all that is what Social Security is a form of retirement income for the elderly.

You pay into it through a payroll tax. The money the boomers paid in that they should be getting now was gone a long time ago.

The thread topic isn't taxes in general, nor was that what I was referencing. Don't be intentionally dense.

I know what the thread topic is. You were talking about how we were paying higher taxes buying Chinese goods from retail stores.

Wages have been entirely stagnant under the Trump administration, and tariffs can only affect them negatively.

In Trump's voice, "Wrong". Try checking a non leftist source for the right answer.

The best-case result is that the entire world goes into economic recession rather than only the US. Not a positive thing regardless.

"Wrong". The stock market started going back up today and when Trump does negotiate with China, the economy will be better than before.

 

[Xzi]

In Trump's voice, "Wrong". Try checking a non leftist source for the right answer.

"Try checking a more biased source for the answer I prefer."

"Wrong". The stock market started going back up today and when Trump does negotiate with China, the economy will be better than before.

Trump couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag. He'll get us a worse deal than we had before and call it a win. People like you won't question it.

The money we've already paid in to extra taxes on goods/appeasement for industrial farming companies is not coming back regardless.

 

[RandomUser]

You pay into it through a payroll tax. The money the boomers paid in that they should be getting now was gone a long time ago.

You're maybe correct, I had to research this and you could be right. In that case I stand corrected then.

 

[morvoran]

Trump couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag. He'll get us a worse deal than we had before and call it a win. People like you won't question it.

I never question when somebody wins so much for the American people, including for you, too. China is getting desperate, so Trump's administration will be able to negotiate a deal to prevent our economy from being taken advantage of like with all prior presidents, including Republicans. Just give him a week or two. You'll see.

"Try checking a more biased source for the answer I prefer."

Of course, so far your feelings (that CNN tells you to feel) have not been a reliable source.
Since Trump has been president, worker's earnings have grown around an estimated $1trillion where corporations' earning have only grown about $220 million. You could say this is because there are a lot more workers than corporations, but you can't say corporations as a whole have benefited more than all workers.
Source: actual news sites, not my feelings