Can someone explain to me the importance of Pride parades.

[Kioku]

You are not necessarily better for wanting to appease the cis/straight people who are grossed out by pride (and who are subsequently the reason pride events are important.)

The same could be said about those taking part in the "parades" and acting the way they do. I feel that these events used to have some significant meaning and aimed to incite change and enlighten those who didn't understand that culture. Nowadays it just seems that it's all a show and an excuse for people to make a scene.

 

[Lacius]

Someone flaunting fairy wings, with heavy makeup, while showing a beer belly in tight clothing are not there to make a stand. They are ripe to ridicule.

Why do gay people need to come out of the closet?

These comments demonstrate the need for Pride.

Let the world adapt to you instead of the other way around.

That's the purpose of Pride.

 

[eyeliner]

These comments demonstrate the need for Pride.


That's the purpose of Pride.

Why? I sincerely ask, because I fail to see a validation in those parades.

I know, for instance that I shock people by being so uncaring about one's sexuality (seriously, people already told me that). I just don't care who you love, I love you regardless. So maybe I have a bit of a defect in grasping the needs for such marches.

So, Lucius, considering that you seem to be a better enlightened person than I am (I am dumb in these matters, for sure) could you please explain to me a bit why are these a need? Not that they disturb me, though... I just find some people there have a bad taste in clothing...

 

[Stwert]

Yes, we're aware gay people exist. Let us now move on to more important issues than
what people like to do with their genitals.

It was intended to be tongue in cheek, just so I could segue into the joke about it being a party.

Personally I don’t give a damn who does what, and with which, and to whom. Live and let live.

 

[Nerdtendo]

We Live in a Backward Mentality World .. These Days PC Correct Nonsense ... its just arseholey people who just love to argue over anything and everything at all LGBT ..Bacon ... Trump Blah Blah Blahhh its just middle class grown up living at home with their parents ... just dying to be something important for the EGO !!.... wanna make a change ..do something & no not a shitty protest again .... where we all have a lovely lunch afterward and talk about it for the rest of the year ...DO Something .... Become something not a arsehole moaning about everything ....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


nah kids are too young to be exposed to it... they will encounter it sooner or later ..... its just life ,,,..

How do you handle the current political climate of America with kids? I'm almost 18 years old. In 5-6 years, I'll probably have little ones of my own (which I'm super stoked about). I'm really nervous on how to keep them on the straight and narrow as they're growing up. Once they mature, they can make whatever choice they make and I'll always love them, but when they 8, 9, 10... anywhere around that age, I don't want them to be exposed to the pressure of having to pick a sexuality.

 

[yusuo]

How do you handle the current political climate of America with kids? I'm almost 18 years old. In 5-6 years, I'll probably have little ones of my own (which I'm super stoked about). I'm really nervous on how to keep them on the straight and narrow as they're growing up. Once they mature, they can make whatever choice they make and I'll always love them, but when they 8, 9, 10... anywhere around that age, I don't want them to be exposed to the pressure of having to pick a sexuality.

That reads as if sexuality is a choice that must be made, surely its something you just know and as such as long as they feel comfortable informing you of who they are, with the same comfortablity as whether informing you that spongebob is better than adventure time then there is no conundrum to worry about

 

[Lacius]

I'll take each comment piece by piece.

Someone flaunting fairy wings

"Fairy" is, historically, a derogatory term for gay men. Fairy wings a.) reclaim the term, and b.) serve as a counterprotest to the challenging of LGBT identity. By saying people shouldn't wear fairy wings is to, metaphorically, put someone back into the closet.

with heavy makeup

Makeup, drag, etc. also serve as a counterprotest to the challenging of LGBT identity. By saying people shouldn't wear heavy makeup, you're (ignoring the inherent idiom) literally saying to go back into the closet.

They are ripe to ridicule.

The fact that you think it's okay to ridicule appropriate presentations of LGBT identity that serve as a political counterprotest to LGBT erasure/denial is homophobic, whether you intended to do it or not.

It's also okay for people to just have fun.

My point is, why are they making a cosplay if they are not like that every day?

Exaggeration is an effective counterprotest. That's also like saying, "Why do a parade if you're not going to do a parade everyday?"

There's carnival for that.

A carnival doesn't deal with the issues of LGBT rights and identity, so you're missing the point of Pride.

And also, now that we are on the subject, should someone care if other people are gay?

No one should be bothered by it, if that's what you mean by "care," but it's also part of one's identity.

That's like saying that no one should care if I'm male. It's true that no one should be bothered by it, and it's true that no one should dwell on my sex and gender too long, but being male is also an important part of my identity, and a person who doesn't know that I'm male can't know me as well as someone who does know that I'm male.

Given the aforementioned issues with the denial of LGBT identity and LGBT-erasure, it's also extremely important for people to know about one's LGBT identity. For example, if you don't know anyone who is openly gay because nobody talks about it, then the plight of the gay community is just as invisible.

Why do gay people need to come out of the closet?

In addition to the aforementioned LGBT identity issues above, gay people often need to come out of the closet because they are outwardly indistinguishable from straight people. Black identity is important to people of color, but they usually don't need to come out because it's outwardly apparent.

Who put them there? I find this kind of thing confusing, because straight people don't make a press note about it.

Society put LGBT people into the closet because the assumption (rightfully or not) is that someone is straight, since so many people are straight. If we didn't assume a person's sexual orientation, identity, etc., then everyone would have to come out.

Straight people don't have to come out because they fit the default assumption, so there's no misinformation to correct.

Your freedom as a gay person fades as soon as you give explanations to others

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but if a person loses any freedoms from coming out to others, then there's a problem, and that problem is more than enough reason for the need for Pride.

Just be. Live and go out with your partner.

The aforementioned discrimination against LGBT people, violence against LGBT people, prejudice against LGBT people, and LGBT-erasure are obstacles that get in the way of this goal, hence the need for Pride. Certain people don't want to let LGBT people "just be." That's the point.

Or do you need to tell the world that you love someone because your genitalia match?

Saying a person shouldn't acknowledge to the world that he or she loves someone with similar genitalia is LGBT-erasure, and you can read above for the issues that brings.

Let the world adapt to you instead of the other way around.

The world cannot adapt to LGBT people if they're invisible, hence the need for coming out, Pride, etc.

That kind of social inertia needs to disappear ASAP.

Then you should be an LGBT ally and support Pride.

I know, for instance that I shock people by being so uncaring about one's sexuality (seriously, people already told me that).

It's one thing to not be bothered by it, if that's what you mean by "care." It's another thing to be blasé about it as if it's unimportant to the person's identity. You can see above for why straight people don't have to come out.

I just don't care who you love

That sounds inconsiderate and as if you don't care about someone. Imagine saying that to your friend after he tells you he's seriously dating a new woman or getting married.

So, Lucius

I guess a person's identity really isn't important to you, because that's not my name.

I just find some people there have a bad taste in clothing...

Throwing shade about people's stylistic choices? Perhaps you belong in the Pride Parade.

 

[Kioku]

That reads as if sexuality is a choice that must be made, surely its something you just know and as such as long as they feel comfortable informing you of who they are, with the same comfortablity as whether informing you that spongebob is better than adventure time then there is no conundrum to worry about

Exactly. It's part of who you are. The pressure lies in the social expectancy. However, that's not important nor crucial to you and yours. The choice is whether or not you accept yourself.

 

[yusuo]

Exactly. It's part of who you are. The pressure lies in the social expectancy. However, that's not important nor crucial to you and yours. The choice is whether or not you accept yourself.

And unfortunately whether you accept yourself or not is currently dictated by the reactions and feelings of those around you, and I'm starting to get the point of pride now.

Yes it's been commercialised and blown up to be bigger than the original message a little but I guess the underlying meaning is saying its ok to feel the way you do, you're not the only one.

This thread has been eye opening for me, thanks all

 

[Nerdtendo]

That reads as if sexuality is a choice that must be made, surely its something you just know and as such as long as they feel comfortable informing you of who they are, with the same comfortablity as whether informing you that spongebob is better than adventure time then there is no conundrum to worry about

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that something like this should come naturally and not forced upon by social pressures. Growing up. I played soccer. I hated soccer but I played because that's what everyone did. No one was trying to pressure me into doing it, but as an 8 year old just trying to do his best, I didn't realize that no one would dislike me if I didn't play soccer.

Same mindset here. Children (and probably my children specifically) don't understand a whole lot. They will never think for themselves and if society starts to lean towards "gay is the way" they'll suddenly decide they're gay without really understanding what that means.

Does that make any sense?

 

[yusuo]

It does, and I see what you're saying, if the expectation is straight then straight thoughts will prevail as is the norm, and vice versa.

What the movement should accomplish is an equilibrium between the two and ultimately dissolve any expection of sexuality, leaving any choice to be a naturally conceived decision, without any outside influence regardless.

 

[Nerdtendo]

It does, and I see what you're saying, if the expectation is straight then straight thoughts will prevail as is the norm, and vice versa.

What the movement should accomplish is an equilibrium between the two and ultimately dissolve any expection of sexuality, leaving any choice to be a naturally conceived decision, without any outside influence regardless.

I think that's the best outcome but it seems pretty unlikely. People push agendas

 

[Lacius]

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that something like this should come naturally and not forced upon by social pressures. Growing up. I played soccer. I hated soccer but I played because that's what everyone did. No one was trying to pressure me into doing it, but as an 8 year old just trying to do his best, I didn't realize that no one would dislike me if I didn't play soccer.

Same mindset here. Children (and probably my children specifically) don't understand a whole lot. They will never think for themselves and if society starts to lean towards "gay is the way" they'll suddenly decide they're gay without really understanding what that means.

Does that make any sense?

There's quite a difference between "gay is a possibility" and "gay is the way." The former makes it so LGBT youth don't feel isolated, and it doesn't affect straight youth. The latter doesn't exist, and if it did, it wouldn't actually change anyone's sexuality. "Straight is the way," which is the default, doesn't make gay kids straight, for example.

Exposing children to Pride can't/won't make them any more likely to be LGBT. There's also nothing wrong with being LGBT.

 

[MasterXD34]

I personally disagree with that particular stance. Yes, I'm straight. But does that matter?
Parades seems baffling because they fight against their original intended purpose. Someone flaunting fairy wings, with heavy makeup, while showing a beer belly in tight clothing are not there to make a stand. They are ripe to ridicule.

My point is, why are they making a cosplay if they are not like that every day? There's carnival for that.

And also, now that we are on the subject, should someone care if other people are gay? Why do gay people need to come out of the closet? Who put them there? I find this kind of thing confusing, because straight people don't make a press note about it.

Your freedom as a gay person fades as soon as you give explanations to others (excluding mom and dad, of course). Just be. Live and go out with your partner. Or do you need to tell the world that you love someone because your genitalia match? Let the world adapt to you instead of the other way around.

That kind of social inertia needs to disappear ASAP.

Yes, I agree with your statement, however so people who are LGBT might want to tell others, because they want to let others know that they are gay, and what not. Basically they will feel out of place because they never expressed who they were as a person. I wish I can give a better understanding.

 

[mikefor20]

The point of any parade is to force your ideas down someone else's throat. Trump did it with the military display during the Fourth of July just like Hitler did back in World War II. A mighty display that can't be ignored. That's the whole intention of a parade, to make people look. It always makes me wonder about the people that try so hard to be noticed. Kind of sad. Like it or not people get. uncomfortable with the subject of sexuality. To make a big display in spite of that fact is selfish and childish. How would the average person react if I walked around with my girl feigning sex in the middle of anywhere? Telling them that "it's a natural thing and it doesn't matter what you think, I have a right to express myself." It's just selfish. And the whole pride thing has become a commercial success so you can expect to see more and more of it. I used to think we need a straight parade but who wants to see that? Probably just as many people that want to see some weirdo dressed up like a giant butterfly with dicks sticking out of his head for antenna. I'm okay with people doing whatever they want on their own. And I'm okay with people expressing themselves to a point but the minute you force me to watch something i don't want to see you become an oppressor as well. Everybody's oppressed. I'm a white guy but I get told "you'll never understand it because you're a man" or I get told "it's a black thing you couldn't understand it" if I said to anybody "It's a white thing you can't participate" what do you think would happen? Or you can't do it because you are a woman? Holy shit. I've lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all my life, If I ever pulled some shit like that there would be a lynch-mob outside my house or at least a YouTube campaign against me. But people can walk around saying just about anything they want about white guys around here and all they might get is "Oh that's cold." I know I haven't had a raw deal or anything I'm just saying everybody has their own oppressors. Why must you fight everywhere you go? Your argument loses steam the more you complain. The crazy old man screaming at the light post might actually know something, but who cares he's a crazy old man screaming at a light post. Sexuality does not have to be something you advertise 24/7. Do what you want at home, and leave me alone. And flamers, I'm sorry you guys but I don't see how acting feminine and semi brainless is cool or sexy to anybody. I can't stand women that will act that way either. Fucking anoying. A moron is a moron. Have a little self-respect. Stop acting so stupid and just be a person . Everything doesn't have to be about your sexuality. Kinda more like an obsession isn't it? It's kind of like a little kid that insists on dressing up as Batman all the time no matter where they go or else they throw a bitch fit. It wasn't appropriate at your Aunt Sally's funeral and it's not appropriate to dress however you want as an adult either. I'm all for being a weirdo, normal is a boring lie, you just don't have a right to make everybody around you uncomfortable all the time just because you find it liberating or fun. Get life. And Pride isn't exclusive to LGBTADXYZs. Just saying.

 

[Hanafuda]

PRIDE, i.e. being proud, is a really poor choice of words for what it's about. I suppose it came from 'black pride' a few decades ago, but that too was a poor choice of words. Pride is for something one has accomplished. Be proud of the result of hard work, of succeeding at a goal. A person really shouldn't be proud of the circumstances of their birth, regardless of whether it was wealthy, poor, tall, short, black, white, gay, straight, smart, stupid, etc.

But that doesn't mean there's no value in the LGBT community having a celebratory event. I was at the parade in Manhattan last week (just a spectator, and just by chance as I was there on vacation) and it was a very positive and 'mentally-healthy' event. But as prejudices against homosexuality wane, there shouldn't be a need to continue holding it forever. Just because you want to parade around in public in leather gear with your dong on display doesn't mean you're entitled to do so.

 

[AmandaRose]

The point of any parade is to force your ideas down someone else's throat.

Actually the point of Pride is to commemorate the events of the Stonewall Riots that took place between June 28 – July 3, 1969 and to make sure they never happen again. For those that don't know what happened several police offices raided the Stonewall Inn for zero reason other than the beat the shit out of gay and transgender people simply because they were gay or transgender. The police officers involved had not been ordered there by their superiors they had simply made the decision themselves to go and bash the patrons of the Stonewall Inn.

What happened next was the whole of Greenwich Village not only the lgbt community but also the straight community joined together in protest at the police brutally of the lgbt community. This lasted for several days and actually led to vital changes and laws being made by the police and the American government.


One year later an event was formed to remember all the people that stood up for the rights of the lgbt community.

This event was called. The Christopher Street Liberation Day. This is the event we now know as pride.

It is a shame that not many people actually know about the Stonewall riots and that includes people in the lgbt community not actually knowing what pride is truly about sadly.

 

[Lacius]

The point of any parade is to force your ideas down someone else's throat.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that all parades are equal. Some are good ideas, and some are bad ideas.

Trump did it with the military display during the Fourth of July just like Hitler did back in World War II. A mighty display that can't be ignored.

Those are examples of bad parades. It doesn't mean all parades are bad.

That's the whole intention of a parade, to make people look.

Sure, but that doesn't say anything about whether or not the parade is good.

It always makes me wonder about the people that try so hard to be noticed.

See my previous posts on the history of LGBT discrimination, LGBT violence, and the denial of LGBT identity. In a nutshell, there wouldn't be progress on LGBT rights if LGBT individuals were invisible.

Kind of sad.

I think homophobia is what's sad.

Like it or not people get. uncomfortable with the subject of sexuality.

People get uncomfortable with the subject of race, but that doesn't mean we should ignore race issues.

To make a big display in spite of that fact is selfish and childish.

To deny LGBT identity is what's selfish and childish.

How would the average person react if I walked around with my girl feigning sex in the middle of anywhere?

1. People largely aren't feigning sex, so that's a false analogy.
2. You doing anything in the middle of the street that's supposed to be analogous to Pride would be ridiculous without context.

Telling them that "it's a natural thing and it doesn't matter what you think, I have a right to express myself."

When it comes to LGBT identity (not "feigning sex in the middle of the street"), that's a perfectly acceptable sentiment to have.

It's just selfish.

I guess it technically is. People of color wanting to end slavery was technically selfish. That doesn't mean it's bad.

And the whole pride thing has become a commercial success so you can expect to see more and more of it.

It's a good thing that there's going to be more. That's how it should be.

I used to think we need a straight parade

Why?

1. Everyday is straight pride.
2. LGBT pride is a counterprotest to LGBT discrimination, violence and erasure.
3. Straight pride isn't a counterprotest to anything (other than gay pride).

but who wants to see that? Probably just as many people that want to see some weirdo dressed up like a giant butterfly with dicks sticking out of his head for antenna.

More people probably want to see the latter.

I'm okay with people doing whatever they want on their own.

This statement is why Pride needs to exist. You're basically saying, "I'm okay with people doing whatever they want as long as it's in the closet." It's a homophobic denial of LGBT identity.

And I'm okay with people expressing themselves to a point but the minute you force me to watch something i don't want to see you become an oppressor as well.

Nobody is requiring you to go to Pride. In addition, in a public space, you do not have the right to only see things you want to see. That's just silly. There is nothing oppressive about Pride. Pride is a counterprotest to oppression.

Everybody's oppressed. I'm a white guy but I get told "you'll never understand it because you're a man" or I get told "it's a black thing you couldn't understand it" if I said to anybody "It's a white thing you can't participate" what do you think would happen? Or you can't do it because you are a woman? Holy shit. I've lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all my life, If I ever pulled some shit like that there would be a lynch-mob outside my house or at least a YouTube campaign against me. But people can walk around saying just about anything they want about white guys around here and all they might get is "Oh that's cold." I know I haven't had a raw deal or anything I'm just saying everybody has their own oppressors.

White people are not systemically oppressed, and men are not systemically oppressed. It's not at all comparable to, for example, LGBT oppression.

Why must you fight everywhere you go? Your argument loses steam the more you complain. The crazy old man screaming at the light post might actually know something, but who cares he's a crazy old man screaming at a light post.

You don't seem to understand that oppressed minorities had to fight hard for every right they have, and complacency inevitably leads to the rollback of those hard-fought rights. Someone who is not part of a group that has faced systemic oppression might not understand. Pride is what led to LGBT rights, and there's still a lot of progress to be made.

Sexuality does not have to be something you advertise 24/7.

Except it is something that's advertised 24/7. The fact that you are male is probably advertised 24/7, but you don't see me telling you to hide your sex or gender.

There are many aspects of our personalities that are advertised 24/7: race, gender, etc. LGBT identity is just as much an important part of one's personality, and it needs to be acknowledged. You don't feel like it needs to be because you are straight, and straight is the default assumption.

And flamers, I'm sorry you guys but I don't see how acting feminine and semi brainless is cool or sexy to anybody. I can't stand women that will act that way either. Fucking anoying. A moron is a moron. Have a little self-respect. Stop acting so stupid and just be a person .

There's a LOT to unpack here.

1. Being feminine isn't an act. Asking a gay person to act less feminine is like asking you to act feminine; those are the acts, they're not going to come naturally, and they're also pointless.
2. Calling a gay man who acts feminine a "flamer" is historically a homophobic slur.
3. There is nothing wrong with a man being feminine.
4. Saying a gay man shouldn't act feminine is also sexist, since the implication is that there's something wrong with being feminine.
5. Comparing femininity to brainlessness is sexist for obvious reasons.
6. Saying you can't stand women who act feminine is also sexist for obvious reasons.
7. Saying that being feminine is contrary to "just being a person" is the objectification of femininity, which is sexist for obivious reasons.

Everything doesn't have to be about your sexuality. Kinda more like an obsession isn't it?

Can you imagine saying the same thing about race? "Stop acting so black. Everything doesn't have to be about your race. Kinda more like an obsession, isn't it?" Sexuality is a part of one's identity, and you express your sexualty too. Also, see above for the need for Pride when it comes to LGBT sexuality.

It's kind of like a little kid that insists on dressing up as Batman all the time no matter where they go or else they throw a bitch fit. It wasn't appropriate at your Aunt Sally's funeral and it's not appropriate to dress however you want as an adult either.

I don't remember seeing butterfly-dick-antennas at Aunt's Sally's funeral, so I don't know what your point is here.

On topic, I think a kid dressing as Batman at Pride is a great idea.

I'm all for being a weirdo

As long as it's in the closet.

normal is a boring lie

You're asking LGBT people to lie by omission (or even explicitly lie).

you just don't have a right to make everybody around you uncomfortable all the time just because you find it liberating or fun.

1. You don't have to go to Pride.
2. If a person makes you uncomfortable because he (or she) is too feminine, outwardly gay, black, etc., that's your hangup and your problem. The right of the minority to express his or her identity far outweighs your right to not be uncomfortable in a public space. I'm sure some people here are uncomfortable with your toxic masculinity, but I don't think anyone is going to argue against your freedom to express your identity.

Get life.

You're the one obsessing over other people's lives, not them.

And Pride isn't exclusive to LGBTADXYZs. Just saying.

1. No, pride (little p) is not exclusive to the LGBT community.
2. Pride (big P) typically refers to the LGBT counter protest against the aforementioned homophobia.
3. Your use of a lot of (fake) letters on the LGBT acronym disparages the LGBT community if you're implying that it's not an important group that should be taken seriously.

PRIDE, i.e. being proud, is a really poor choice of words for what it's about. I suppose it came from 'black pride' a few decades ago, but that too was a poor choice of words. Pride is for something one has accomplished. Be proud of the result of hard work, of succeeding at a goal. A person really shouldn't be proud of the circumstances of their birth, regardless of whether it was wealthy, poor, tall, short, black, white, gay, straight, smart, stupid, etc.

But that doesn't mean there's no value in the LGBT community having a celebratory event. I was at the parade in Manhattan last week (just a spectator, and just by chance as I was there on vacation) and it was a very positive and 'mentally-healthy' event. But as prejudices against homosexuality wane, there shouldn't be a need to continue holding it forever. Just because you want to parade around in public in leather gear with your dong on display doesn't mean you're entitled to do so.

1. "Pride" just means you're feeling proud, and that can refer to identity as well as accomplishments.
2. See my (long) post above for the part about how rights are inevitably rolled back with complacency.
3. The LGBT rights movement has a long way to go.

 

[mikefor20]

You can justify anything with useless prattle. My point still stands. I don't care what other people do as long as they leave other people alone about it. I don't care if your visibility makes you feel better about yourself. You don't have a right to feel better about yourself. Leave everybody alone. Or expect to be put under the magnifying glass. It's like when celebrities bitch about not having any privacy. Or a hot chick complains that you're staring at her boobs. The fool got paid to be in the spotlight and the chick put that push-up bra on and have them up and out. Not my fault I noticed. You want attention and visibility but only on your terms. It's good to want things. Pride Celebration sucks. It's really inconvenient for anybody who doesn't want to participate. I'm really glad it's once a year. I don't think I'd feel any different about a straight Pride Parade either. It's all a bunch of annoying assholes are too loud and clogging all the BART trains. They should all just go home.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

For the record I know a lot about Stonewall I was born and raised around here. I knew about it since I was a child. It was a tragedy. But it somewhat has become as footnote and the parade is just a reason to make noise and get in people's faces. Don't they have sporting events for that?

 

[leon315]

For much of history, LGBT people have been met with violence and discrimination. They've been told to deny who they are or to at least hide it. Pride parades are a counterprotest to that, symbolizing the famous phrase, "We're here. We're queer. Get used to it."

Without pride and pride parades, basic LGBT identity would be challenged.

i WISH those LGBT people pay a visit to Putin's Moscow, The view is very breathtaking.