Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

[MadMageKefka]

A good realization to have.

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This is a great mentality and I agree. At the same time I don't agree with flat earthers just to make them feel better. People can do whatever they want, I legit do not care, I'm just not going to humor imaginary genders for it either.

 

[cots]

This is a great mentality and I agree. At the same time I don't agree with flat earthers just to make them feel better. People can do whatever they want, I legit do not care, I'm just not going to humor imaginary genders for it either.

I don't agree with flat earthers (I've seen my share of space shuttle and rocket launches) or ant-vaxxers (meds do have rare side effects, sometimes - 81mg of aspirin can kill you), but I respect them as people and as long as they don't try to force thier beliefs on me or use my taxes to support their private interests we're all good.

 

[AmandaRose]

I don't agree with flat earthers (I've seen my share of space shuttle and rocket launches) or ant-vaxxers (meds do have rare side effects, sometimes - 81mg of aspirin can kill you), but I respect them as people and as long as they don't try to force thier beliefs on me or use my taxes to support their private interests we're all good.

But you are assuming that transgender procedures are being paid for out of your taxes when the truth is people in your own country have to self finance the treatment though either their own money or through medical insurance. So your argument about your taxes is somewhat pointless.

https://www.finder.com/pay-for-transgender-surgery-medical-expenses

 

[Lacius]

Okay, well since you clearly can't seem to tell, we disagree on this point, so repeating yourself isn't gonna help. If you want to change my mind, stop giving me a half-assed explanation and SHOW me like I asked. For now I'll just assume you can't, and that it doesn't exist.

1. Please calm down.
2. If you're going to say there's no interpreting a penis or vagina and that it either is or isn't, then some intersex genitalia can't be described as either a penis or a vagina, per your dichotomy. This is why I wanted us to be clear.
3. I don't find this conversation about intersex genitalia particularly relevant to whether or not intersex people exist, and if intersex people exist, then sex isn't necessarily binary.

 

[SG854]

A good realization to have.

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I think its my competitive personality seeping through. It makes me care more then I should because I’m focused on winning debates and not looking dumb, whatever the topic is.



I don’t really agree with the meme though. You shouldn’t just accept anything, question things. Even for any other topic besides trans. Especially when law is involved, and people are getting somewhat involved. It’s better to learn at least the basics to have an understanding of what going on.


I was also talking more about going too deep into the topic, not about surface level understanding. And I feel the same way with not just the trans topic but also with general politics. I’m spending too much time on this stuff to research it when I have a huge list of goals and things I could do instead. I’m wasting my time.


It wasn’t all a waste though. I learned more about psychology and what gets classified as a disorder. It has to cause distress or negative side effects. Even if it hits all the disorders bullet points, if it doesn’t cause distress then it’s not a disorder. This also applies to transgender.

But now I feel diminishing returns, time is limited and probably better spent elsewhere. If people see me not engaging anymore and try to frame it as me running away because they’ve won the debate then so be it. As long as I spend my time on my goals instead of wasting my time researching to win some internet debate with random people then let them think whatever they want.

 

[MadMageKefka]

1. Please calm down.
2. If you're going to say there's no interpreting a penis or vagina and that it either is or isn't, then some intersex genitalia can't be described as either a penis or a vagina, per your dichotomy. This is why I wanted us to be clear.
3. I don't find this conversation about intersex genitalia particularly relevant to whether or not intersex people exist, and if intersex people exist, then sex isn't necessarily binary.

1. Stressing one word in caps doesn't really make me upset, but okay.
2. I did everything I could be be extremely clear after you asked last time. If you still don't get it, that's on you. If you ask me it seems like you're intentionally acting like it's not clear to help push your vague "it's open to interpretation" claim. If it doesn't fit a simple "yes or no," maybe it's because it's imaginary, like I originally said.
   
3. You still haven't been able to show me a 3rd gender, so going to continue to disagree with you here. Again.

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

I'd like to take a moment to thank all sides of this debate for remaining civil.

I wasn't aware GBAtemp could be this mature.

Thank you.

 

[Xzi]

I don’t really agree with the meme though. You shouldn’t just accept anything, question things.

That's not what the quote is saying. Questioning THINGS is great, but you don't need to question why people are who they are. Odds are that's only going to lead to arguments or feelings being hurt, and you won't learn anything new from it.

 

[Lacius]

I did everything I could be be extremely clear after you asked last time. If you still don't get it, that's on you. If you ask me it seems like you're intentionally acting like it's not clear to help push your vague "it's open to interpretation" claim. If it doesn't fit a simple "yes or no," maybe it's because it's imaginary, like I originally said.

I'm not sure what your point is anymore, so I will summarize my view. My point is that sex isn't necessarily binary, and if your point is that there are only two kinds of genitalia (male and female), you are mistaken. Intersex genitalia can be neither male nor female, and if we use your parameters (i.e. there's no room for interpretation), then you agree with me. If you want to argue that intersex genitalia can always be interpreted to be either male or female, then that would require the suspension of your parameters. That would also be a difficult position to defend.

You still haven't been able to show me a 3rd gender, so going to continue to disagree with you here. Again.

Are we talking about sex, or are we talking about gender?

1. If we are talking about sex, which is what I thought we were doing, then I refer you to my response above about people who are intersex.
2. If we are talking about gender, then I refer you to anybody who identifies as anything other than male or female (e.g. non-binary).

 

[cots]

But you are assuming that transgender procedures are being paid for out of your taxes when the truth is people in your own country have to self finance the treatment though either their own money or through medical insurance. So your argument about your taxes is somewhat pointless.

https://www.finder.com/pay-for-transgender-surgery-medical-expenses

The page doesn't specifically look at insurance companies involved in the process. It's a general outline of ways you could possibly pay for the procedure yourself (which is good because I rather not pay for it). Which insurance company are they using? If they are using various medical insurance programs paid by the Government then they are using my money. If they are using a Government entity to pay for their procedure (like any of the armed services) they are using my money. If they are using a private insurance company that is not subsidized the Government, which they pay their own premiums, deductibles and for their own procedures than they aren't using my money.

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Are we talking about sex, or are we talking about gender?

1. If we are talking about sex, which is what I thought we were doing, then I refer you to my response above about people who are intersex.
2. If we are talking about gender, then I refer you to anybody who identifies as anything other than male or female (e.g. non-binary).

Hermaphrodite's don't have a third sex. These rare individuals have a mixture of the two due to rare mutations. Did I mention rare? Most trans people don't suffer from any sort of rare mutations, they simply don't like the fact they were either born a female or a male, which is determined by if they have a male or female reproductive system. In rare cases some people are born with two heads, but we don't go around trying to make up and justify the use of fallacies on the basis of something that barely ever happens. I don't even see why using hermaphrodite's as an example is even considered a valid excuse to argue your points with. It's a way to divert from the real fact that most people are either born a female or a male. How you "feel" about the penis you have between your legs doesn't change the fact you have a penis between you legs and if you chop it off it doesn't change the fact that you were born a male and used to have a penis between your legs. I don't see why people fall for or even need to consider arguing over the rare crap that never really even happens - it's a trap. I mean, a jumbo jet could possibly burst into flames and crash into my apartment - so because of this rare possibility we should redesign and rebuild every building on earth to be able to handle taking a jumbo jet crashing into them?

@MadMageKefka - I'd simply move on from this line of debate. It's useless and he's trying to trap you into arguing about something that is rarely the case to justify something that is normally not the case. It's pretty pointless, he's wrong and is desperate. That's it. Pretty simple.

 

[Kigiru]

People live in misinformed, outraged society where people's feelings and mood are affected by media and politicians.

Here's my take: You can be black, you can be gay, you can be trans, you can be whatever the heck you want and i'll support you unless obviously your ways of life will directly threaten my ways of life, in this case we will need to settle it down somehow.
And by "you" i mean person, not a member of some letter soup movement like LGBT++++whatever or BLM, these things were created and maintained exactly by people that want to control and abuse your sexuality, gender and skin color and i would feel freaking disgusted with myself if i would compromise anybody's existence to these things lol.
This is also this "pride month" bs feels awful for me - It's glorification of person's one single trait that in wider scale does not make them good or bad. There's in every person on Earth hundreds of better things to be prideful of. Your talents, your hard work, your kindness... Don't let you guys and gals and other friendly people put yourself into these crappy brackets separating you from others...

I'm starting to rant mindlessly... but you probably see - I'm pretty fed up in how is working now and angry at elites abusing things like sexuality, skin color, beliefs etc. for their own agenda.

 

[AmandaRose]

People live in misinformed, outraged society where people's feelings and mood are affected by media and politicians.

This is also this "pride month" bs feels awful for me - It's glorification of person's one single trait that in wider scale does not make them good or bad. There's in every person on Earth hundreds of better things to be prideful of. Your talents, your hard work, your kindness... Don't let you guys and gals and other friendly people put yourself into these crappy brackets separating you from others..

You talk about misinformed people then talk about pride when you actually have no idea what pride is actually about. It's about commemorating the Stonewall riots that took place in June 28/29 1969 and about having pride in the people who stood up for our community during said riot. It's not about glorifying one personal trait as you claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots?wprov=sfla1

 

[Kigiru]

You talk about misinformed people then talk about pride when you actually have no idea what pride is actually about. It's about commemorating the Stonewall riots that took place in June 28/29 1969 and about having pride in the people who stood up for our community during said riot. It's not about glorifying one personal trait as you claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots?wprov=sfla1

That's cool, but then why so many people commemorating Pride Month are freaks in what can be only called huge orgies in the middle of the street? Why children are more often than not dragged into it? Why it pretty much always goes along with hostility towards oh-so-scary Whytemale boogeyman?

If this is your way to remember these brave people then be fucking aware that you are insulting them by turning their sacrifice into reason to normalize obscene perversion. And there's still nothing to be prideful of for you.

 

[AmandaRose]

That's cool, but then why so many people commemorating Pride Month are freaks in what can be only called huge orgies in the middle of the street? Why children are more often than not dragged into it? Why it pretty much always goes along with hostility towards oh-so-scary Whytemale boogeyman?

If this is your way to remember these brave people then be fucking aware that you are insulting them by turning their sacrifice into reason to normalize obscene perversion. And there's still nothing to be prideful of for you.

But that's you assuming that every pride event around the world is like that when it is not. You can't just make a general assumption about something when you don't actually know. I can assure you any pride event in my country is not like what you seem to assume it is like.

 

[MadMageKefka]

I'd simply move on from this line of debate. It's useless and he's trying to trap you into arguing about something that is rarely the case to justify something that is normally not the case. It's pretty pointless, he's wrong and is desperate. That's it. Pretty simple.

It's not really a debate at this point, more just humoring him to prove despite it, he still isn't going to / can't provide the evidence I asked for. I think multiple pages over multiple days should suffice...

Are we talking about sex, or are we talking about gender?

1. If we are talking about sex, which is what I thought we were doing, then I refer you to my response above about people who are intersex.
2. If we are talking about gender, then I refer you to anybody who identifies as anything other than male or female (e.g. non-binary).

...yup. Okay, so first off, sex and gender are the same thing. I have been arguing that since the beginning. You clearly don't agree, but if you wish to not be confused, assume I am speaking as if they are synonymous (which they are).

So, to avoid further "confusion," assume we are talking about your #1, and show me a SEX that is neither male, nor female. If you have a penis, but feel like a woman inside, you are a boy. I already know A LOT of people reading this aren't gonna like it, but we can't all like how we are born, none of us get to choose. If you wanna THINK you're a girl, dress like them, get surgery to have the non-functioning parts of one, that's your choice and I legitimately do not care, however, until someone can show me a 3rd set of genitals, there are 2 genders / sexes. Penis equals boy, vagina equals girl.

 

[AmandaRose]

Penis equals boy, vagina equals girl.

Thank you for finally agreeing that I am a woman as I have a vagina. Much appreciated.

 

[MadMageKefka]

Thank you for finally agreeing that I am a woman as I have a vagina. Much appreciated.

I already know A LOT of people reading this aren't gonna like it, but we can't all like how we are born, none of us get to choose.

born

Clearly reading into context isn't your strong suit.

 

[AmandaRose]

Clearly reading into context isn't your strong suit.

Clearly a sense of humour is not your strong suit especially sarcastic humour

 

[MadMageKefka]

Clearly a sense of humour is not your strong suit

Just wouldn't want you to get the wrong idea

 

[Lacius]

It's not really a debate at this point, more just humoring him to prove despite it, he still isn't going to / can't provide the evidence I asked for. I think multiple pages over multiple days should suffice...



...yup. Okay, so first off, sex and gender are the same thing. I have been arguing that since the beginning. You clearly don't agree, but if you wish to not be confused, assume I am speaking as if they are synonymous (which they are).

So, to avoid further "confusion," assume we are talking about your #1, and show me a SEX that is neither male, nor female. If you have a penis, but feel like a woman inside, you are a boy. I already know A LOT of people reading this aren't gonna like it, but we can't all like how we are born, none of us get to choose. If you wanna THINK you're a girl, dress like them, get surgery to have the non-functioning parts of one, that's your choice and I legitimately do not care, however, until someone can show me a 3rd set of genitals, there are 2 genders / sexes. Penis equals boy, vagina equals girl.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.