Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

[Naendow]

You know that being trans is by far not a mental illness, right? That has been proven 2 years ago or so.

 

[PZT]

OP is right. These words have pretty much lost their value because they've been used so vaguely and loosely plus, everyone nowadays who disagrees with the legacy media (and the likes) is a "Nazi", "Alt-Right", "Far-Right" or all three. It's hard to have a discussion these days as folks just end up screaming the typical buzzwords so.. no point in it.

Thanks for having the courage to speak up, OP.

You know who actually has courage? Aurora Wright
You're all cowards

 

[AmandaRose]

You know who actually has courage? Aurora Wright
You're all cowards

Spot on but I'm no coward myself and Aurora are very similar lol.

 

[Hanafuda]

Those are too heavy sorts of canons you are using.

This has a mutilation angle to it that was introduced by social force ("religious customs") that likely resulted in trauma - then it has a malpractice angle to it as well. This is not an ideal case to show concepts - its multilayered with issues that you would rather want to separate from the topic at hand, if you can.

Except that John Money was the primary 'professional' source for transgender theory at its inception in the late-60's, early-70's. He was basically the original researcher in the field, and the source for these concepts in late-20th/early-21st century western thought. And he liked to pose naked boys in positions of sexual intercourse and take pictures.

This old bullshit again funny how the world's top doctors say its not a mental illness funny how the world's leading health organisation says its not a mental illness. Funny how as a transgender woman I had to go through 24 months of screening by psychiatrists to prove that I DID NOT HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS before being allowed GRS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...r-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

That was a political decision. They vote on it, and keeping their positions and social pressures most certainly influence the vote. The DSM-5 still says mental disorder.

 

[AmandaRose]

That was a political decision. They vote on it, and keeping their positions and social pressures most certainly influence the vote. The DSM-5 still says mental disorder.

What the vastly outdated Bible of trans haters who ignore key facts in it like it's own recommended treatment for gender dysphoria. And I quote directly from the DSM-5

[Treatment options for gender dysphoria include counseling, cross-sex hormones, puberty suppression and gender reassignment surgery.]

Now the DSM-5 was put together by psychiatrists around the world so
If it truly was a mental disorder why the hell would they they recommend GRS instead of you know actually doing their job and treating this so called mental illness like they would do you know with an actual proper mental illness.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

 

[SG854]

Ok so extremely busy today so don't have a lot of time to discuss this but I just wanted to address a few things.

Yes I do really care about it here in Scotland in my spare time I am a transgender counsellor I have also campaigned successfully for several Scottish laws to be changed for the good of not only trans women but for all woman. I have had personal one on meetings with the British prime minister about other trans issues. My biggest problem though is I care too much and get unnecessarily upset at certain comments or discussions that I have heard a thousand times before and am bored actually answering.

In regards screening I can really only talk about how it's done here in Scotland as not fully up on how the rest of the world does it.

Here in Scotland a trans person must go a minimum of two years assessment with various doctors and psychiatrists before they will even be considered for GRS. Normally it lasts a lot longer than two years round about 4 to 5 years on average. Then you must face a panel of 5 other doctors and you have to unanimously convince them that GRS is necessary for you. It's a one shot deal and if you don't convince all 5 you will never get GRS. Even then if you do convince all 5 they can still delay GRS and send you for more screening or they can block you from ever getting it.

I have no doubt other countries are not as strict and I do wish they followed the Scottish way of doing it. Because here we have one of the lowest regret rates in the world.

Usually proper screening is what should be done especially if you go to the surgical route, there’s no going back. The problem is activists becoming sensationalists and saying if you don’t affirm your child to transition they will commit suicide. Which is plain emotional manipulation, not true, and the researchers in the suicide studies they cite talk about the limitations of it.





The fact that over 500 clinicians and researchers had to petition to defend Dr. Zucker should be telling how corrupt it’s become. Dr. Zucker says that the field of gender dysphoria has been corrupted by politics. As Dr. Blanchard says the same thing. Both worked on DSM-5.


So does Dr. Debrah Soh and I don’t take what Lacius says seriously, especially when his complaint about her is ridiculous. I’m guessing he was talking about this Reddit post since he mention that she was a troll and mentions conversion therapy. It’s just too much a perfect match.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCynical/comments/6i4blw/debra_soh_jumps_the_shark/#thing_t1_dj3ew8d


When you actually read the article the reddit post was criticizing it answers all of Lacius criticisms that he copied from the Reddit post.

It clearly says while Gender Identity is flexible in kids it normalizes when they get older. Normalize should answer the criticism. Especially since the majority desist when they get older. So pushing transition before they reach puberty is a bad idea.


Lacius criticism of Conversion Therapy is also answered in that article. Dr. Debra Soh says it’s not to be conflated with the Therapeutic Approach. And activists are calling it Conversion Therapy to conflate the two as if they are the same, but they are not. It’s also the thoughts of Dr. Ray Blanchard, he also says activists are conflating the two. And also the thoughts of Dr. Zucker that’s it not conversion therapy, which he got fired over. And over 500 clinicians and researchers petition in his defense.

So it’s not only the thoughts of Dr. Debra Soh, Dr. Ray Blanchard, or Dr. Zucker that are saying this, it’s also the 500+ researchers and clinicians defending what they say.


And even if Dr. Debra Soh contradicted herself I don’t see how that makes her a troll, I would’ve labeled it as a mistake or not thinking her ideas through instead. And the criticism misses the bigger picture she was talking about which is the conversion therapy thing, and to proceed child transition with caution.

 

[Deleted-401606]

This old bullshit again funny how the world's top doctors say its not a mental illness funny how the world's leading health organisation says its not a mental illness. Funny how as a transgender woman I had to go through 24 months of screening by psychiatrists to prove that I DID NOT HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS before being allowed GRS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...r-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

It was listed as a mental illness for most of human history and was only recently removed as a mental illness for political reasons. It really doesn't make evolutionary/biological sense that someone could be trapped in the wrong body.

 

[notimp]

Transgender people suffer from a pervasive mental illness, and as a result they deserve our sympathy. There is no reason to be violent or mean toward them. Still, we should not be expected to affirm their neuroses anymore than we should affirm the beliefs of a schizophrenic who believes himself to be an alien.

Hm.

Why.

Especially as things arguably arent so clear cut, when it comes to gender - or gender identities. (Subs, doms, cuckolds, cuckqueens, you know the pages on the internets.. )


Lets take the most impactful step, which is gender reasignment surgery.

If there exists the manifest urge of that person. If it is connected to psychological strain (so that person really suffering from their condition). First they need a conceptual way out. So you give them the opportunity for that surgery.

There is nothing that speaks against that.

Then you make it freaking hard to attain - because they basically have to be at a point, where they give up themselves, before you grant it to them. This you do because of two factors. One - risk of the surgery, on someone that isnt in "physical medical need" for it. Second - if regrets set in, it becomes fucking hard to deal with that.

But - as it is medically viable - you need the option. And you also need for it to actually be performed. Otherwise you highten structural suffering.

("No way out." "Society doenst want me to find peace, ...")

So there is really absolutely nothing that speaks against having this as a far, far reachable option, at the end of a road that goes through all prior forms of treatment that there are.

Please acknowledge that.

Certainly not your notion, that it must be horrible to have to neglect advances of a transitioning, or transitioned individual. Those concerns are so tiny in comparison - they might not even count. At all..


The part thats actually more problematic is societal recognition. Something that literally anyone would fight for - that identifies themselves as not a normy (dont read too much into the indentify thing - as in SJW lingo).

If you are in such a minority - its freaking hard to change societies images of your behavior. If you remove stigma - everyone is helped. But with removed stigma should come societal recognition - and if thats not there, if large parts of society cant jump the gap mentally - stuff becomes rather tragic again.

Now looking at Ls, Gs, and Bs - they managed to change societies and recognize them as part of the norm. It took decades. It can happen. Its not freaking easy. And there are limits. We just don't know where.

But certainly - they are not at "I might have to be confronted with sexual advances of such an individual once in my lifetime". Not argumentatively. Emotionally they might be. Which is kind of the problem. Its freaking hard to change that - and SJW might not help here.

 

[Xzi]

It was listed as a mental illness for most of human history and was only recently removed as a mental illness for political reasons. It really doesn't make evolutionary/biological sense that someone could be trapped in the wrong body.

By nature's logic, nothing humans do makes sense. Still, there are species who have evolved the ability to change sex, and nearly every species of animal exhibits homosexual behavior. It's a hell of a reach to suggest that no semi-intelligent animal, such as a dolphin, has ever felt as though it was trapped in the wrong body. We can't read their minds, but based on statistics alone it's likely to have occurred way more than once.

 

[Deleted-401606]

By nature's logic, nothing humans do makes sense. Still, there are species who have evolved the ability to change sex, and nearly every species of animal exhibits homosexual behavior. It's a hell of a reach to suggest that no semi-intelligent animal, such as a dolphin, has ever felt as though it was trapped in the wrong body. We can't read their minds, but based on statistics alone it's likely to have occurred way more than once.

Where is the proof that statistics show dolphins have transexual urges? Incidences of homosexuality rise in times of peace for whatever reason, we aren't talking about homosexuality though. We are talking about transexuality. Why was it classified as a mental illness only to be removed from the dsm? Besides that it used to be called Gender Identity Disorder and now it's referred to as Gender Dysphoria. What species has evolved the ability to change sex?

 

[Xzi]

Where is the proof that statistics show dolphins have transexual urges?

Like I said, we can't read their minds, it can't be proven without a doubt either way.

Why was it classified as a mental illness only to be removed from the dsm?

I can only assume it's because our understanding of things becomes more comprehensive with time. Clinging to outdated research and information is how we get flat Earthers.

What species has evolved the ability to change sex?

Several species of birds, amphibians, insects, fish, and other aquatic life.

 

[Deleted-401606]

Like I said, we can't read their minds, it can't be proven without a doubt either way.


I can only assume it's because our understanding of things becomes more comprehensive with time. Clinging to outdated research and information is how we get flat Earthers.


Several species of birds, amphibians, insects, fish, and other aquatic life.

That's a pretty interesting read,but that same article states that humans cannot change sex.I do like the article though so thank you.

 

[Xzi]

That's a pretty interesting read,but that same article states that humans cannot change sex.I do like the article though so thank you.

Certainly not to the extent that we're able to change reproductive organs on a whim. But had we followed a slightly different evolutionary path it may well have been possible. In any case I think it's clear that sex isn't such a binary issue from nature's point of view.

 

[MadMageKefka]

1. It's not particularly relevant to the question of whether or not intersex exists, as I said earlier.
2. I'm not sure what you mean specifically by "by design," which makes responding even more difficult.
3. "Neither penis nor vagina" is open to interpretation when we're talking about people who are intersex.

I'm not trying to be difficult nor nitpicky. I'm just trying to make sure we're clear.

1. If you say so.
2. Meaning, able to do so unless affected by something else such as an unrelated disease or illness that caused the inability to reproduce.
3. "Open to interpretation" I mean, isn't all of this? So basically, you mean "no."

 

[Lacius]

2. Meaning, able to do so unless affected by something else such as an unrelated disease or illness that caused the inability to reproduce.

Then the answer is yes, not that it's relevant.

3. "Open to interpretation" I mean, isn't all of this? So basically, you mean "no."

Don't tell me what I mean. Some individuals who are interesex have genitalia that is neither male nor female.

 

[MadMageKefka]

Don't tell me what I mean. Some individuals who are interesex have genitalia that is neither male nor female.

Then why didn't you just say "yes?"

 

[cots]

For anyone that still thinks that transgendism isn't defined as a mental disorder.

It turns out that the WHO has reclassified transgender people to change them from having a mental disorder to having a lessor disorder under the panel's sexual health chapter (mainly to reduce stigma). It won't be put into effect until 2022.

So the WHO up until today and continuing until 2022 classify it as a mental disorder (I was unaware of this because I don't care about the WHO).

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/health/who-transgender-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

The DSM-V still categorizes transgender people having a mental illness, but the severity of the diagnosis had been reduced from what the DSM-IV had it as (again to reduce stigma).

You do realize that it has to be defined as a medical or mental condition for insurance companies to pay for fixing or treating the problem? If it wasn't some sort of disorder than you'd have to pay for it yourself, but that's not the only reason why it's classified as such (just pointing out to the people using my money to get their treatment might not want to have it become normal otherwise they're going to have to pay for it themselves without the help from my taxes).

 

[Lacius]

For anyone that still thinks that transgendism isn't defined as a mental disorder.

It turns out that the WHO has reclassified transgender people to change them from having a mental disorder to having a lessor disorder under the panel's sexual health chapter (mainly to reduce stigma). It won't be put into effect until 2022.

So the WHO up until today and continuing until 2022 classify it as a mental disorder (I was unaware of this because I don't care about the WHO).

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/health/who-transgender-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

The DSM-V still categorizes transgender people having a mental illness, but the severity of the diagnosis had been reduced from what the DSM-IV had it as (again to reduce stigma).

You do realize that it has to be defined as a medical or mental condition for insurance companies to pay for fixing or treating the problem? If it wasn't some sort of disorder than you'd have to pay for it yourself, but that's not the only reason why it's classified as such (just pointing out to the people using my money to get their treatment might not want to have it become normal otherwise they're going to have to pay for it themselves without the help from my taxes).

Neither the WHO nor the DSM classifies being transgender as a mental disorder.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Then why didn't you just say "yes?"

Because that depends on one's interpretation.

 

[cots]

Neither the WHO nor the DSM classifies being transgender as a mental disorder.

Well, under the WHO it's only going to be a mental illness until after the changes take effect in 2022, but before then and up until a few days ago it was still classified as a disorder.

The DSM-V reclassified transgenderism into a lessor category, but it's still classified and they didn't get rid of it (in the DSM-IV it was a more server illness - now it's a less severe illness)

I can't help if you deny facts. I can't fix stupid.

 

[AmandaRose]

For anyone that still thinks that transgendism isn't defined as a mental disorder.

It turns out that the WHO has reclassified transgender people to change them from having a mental disorder to having a lessor disorder under the panel's sexual health chapter (mainly to reduce stigma). It won't be put into effect until 2022.

So the WHO up until today and continuing until 2022 classify it as a mental disorder (I was unaware of this because I don't care about the WHO).

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/health/who-transgender-reclassified-not-mental-disorder/index.html

The DSM-V still categorizes transgender people having a mental illness, but the severity of the diagnosis had been reduced from what the DSM-IV had it as (again to reduce stigma).

You do realize that it has to be defined as a medical or mental condition for insurance companies to pay for fixing or treating the problem? If it wasn't some sort of disorder than you'd have to pay for it yourself, but that's not the only reason why it's classified as such (just pointing out to the people using my money to get their treatment might not want to have it become normal otherwise they're going to have to pay for it themselves without the help from my taxes).

Please give a detailed breakdown of what your own personal taxes are being used for exactly. You have zero evidence that any of your own personal taxes have ever been used to treat transgenders just as I have zero evidence if my own taxes are being used to treat drug addicts or being used for any other practice I disagree with.

Using that argument is pointless because

A) You have zero evidence that you own taxes have ever financed any transgender procedure
B) you have zero evidence that a transgender person's own taxes has or has not financed their own treatment.

And besides it is just another one of your comments that is straight out of the transphobic handbook 101.

Must used quotes out of the transphobic handbook.

1. It's a mental disorder

2. I don't want my taxes

3. Biologically you are not a woman

The only thing missing from any of your comments is

I'm not transphobic but.



(One world, one love, all of us are the same we are all human, fuck the bullshit. Let’s just L️‍️‍OVE each
other)