Gaming Pokemon Sword and Shield will not contain all Pokemons

[Xzi]

Resolution has nothing to do with polygon count though?

The power of the hardware puts a cap on the maximum polygon count, which is why you can only make 3DS games look better up to a point in emulators.

Pretty sure Let's Go was only 30FPS too, don't quote me on that though. I haven't touched the game in a while.

I guess you're right, they just did a great job with the frame pacing so I didn't notice. Still, I noted some slowdown to less than 30 FPS in the S&S trailer, and they've even got the environment textures set to fairly low quality.

This isn't true. People dump models from games and use them for other purposes all the time, even importing them into other games!

Yeah, and those models look out of place in other games/engines. Brightness, texture resolution, cel-shading, it all looks wrong.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

At least maybe they can make shiny Pokémon kind of mean something again.

 

[PrincessLillie]

The reason is time, as we've been discussing.

If the reason was time, they could simply announce a delay for the game to give the developers more time to work. As Miyamoto once said, "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."

Up until now the changes have been minor. It's plainly obvious how much higher res and how much more detailed the models in S&S are compared to models from the 3DS engine (Let's Go).

I've been told that the 3DS models were built to be future-proof, which is why 3DS struggled so much with them. Additionally, I doubt Game Freak wants to remake every model from scratch.

There's no version of Animal Crossing that has 1000+ character models, so that's not a good comparison

Well, I suck at analogies.

I've also not mentioned DLC, and I seriously doubt that's how Pokemon models will be added to gen8.

Never doubt the lengths to which corporate greed will go.

Unfortunately I just came from a YouTube stream. It’s been clarified by gamefreak. Going forward for all new Pokémon titles, only the most popular Pokémon will continue to be used. All others will be trapped on Pokémon home until they (gamefreak) feels they will fit the environment of an upcoming title. However that means others will be unused instead. Ultimately this means some Pokémon overtime will be canned. This extends to the card game n all other areas of the franchise as well.

This, uh... Definitely won't go over well...
Pokemon is about "Gotta Catch 'em All!", not "Gotta Catch Some Of 'em!" If the National Dex is never going to see the light of day again, we won't be able to catch them all. This'll also turn most players away from ever playing Pokemon again, and I think it already has for some.
This also means we're never gonna see Meloetta again
...
May I have a link to said YouTube stream?

 

[Xzi]

If the reason was time, they could simply announce a delay for the game to give the developers more time to work.

We're going in circles now. You either wait for the delays or you just wait to buy the game. Assuming you're willing to wait at all, and not everybody is.

I've been told that the 3DS models were built to be future-proof, which is why 3DS struggled so much with them.

Maybe so. I'll need more side-by-side comparisons to confirm.

 

[Bedel]

Also this bothers me. @Xzi keeps saying it's a new engine, but I don't find any confirmation about it. It can be the same engine with some modifications for Switch and that's it.
And yes, the models and the animations are the same. There's a threat in this same forum about people exporting the models, textures and animations from 3DS games and Let's go without diference, and using them on unity or unreal. And yes, once they extract them it's as simple as just open the models with the engine and that's it.
Don't defend the just because it's Pokémon. We musn't do that. If other company put in the game less that they put in the past, people will insult them as hell (because they have the right to do so, it's the product the company want to sell them). But people are really defending Game Freak just because it's Pokémon, and that's really wrong. If I pay 50€ for a game, I want it complete. Not just some of it because they wanted to sell once of it a year as if this were Assasins creed.

 

[Xzi]

Also this bothers me. @Xzi keeps saying it's a new engine, but I don't find any confirmation about it. It can be the same engine with some modifications for Switch and that's it.

It's undeniably a new engine because it has open-world elements. The previous engine would not be compatible with that, it was all uniformly box-shaped buildings and uniformly narrow pathways between towns.

 

[PrincessLillie]

You either wait for the delays or you just wait to buy the game. Assuming you're willing to wait at all, and not everybody is.

Looking at the positive reception to the Animal Crossing delay, I'm thinking most people would be fine if Pokemon was delayed.

Maybe so. I'll need more side-by-side comparisons to confirm.

Reddit post showing the models used in the 3DS games compared to the models used in LGPE

It's undeniably a new engine because it has open-world elements. The previous engine would not be compatible with that, it was all uniformly box-shaped buildings and uniformly narrow pathways between towns.

"It can be the same engine with some modifications for Switch and that's it." Doesn't mean it's the exact same engine, but maybe it had some modifications to account for the larger world.

 

[Xzi]

Looking at the positive reception to the Animal Crossing delay, I'm thinking most people would be fine if Pokemon was delayed.

Again we should avoid speaking for 'most people.' There are those that are fine with delays and those that hate them.

Reddit post showing the models used in the 3DS games compared to the models used in LGPE

I wasn't denying that LGPE is using the 3DS engine, it looks nearly identical to the 3DS games when emulated at a higher resolution. The question is how much models are being changed between LGPE and gen8.

"It can be the same engine with some modifications for Switch and that's it." Doesn't mean it's the exact same engine, but maybe it had some modifications to account for the larger world.

I really, really doubt it. These are some major changes and I think we would've already seen open-world elements in Pokemon if the 3DS engine could handle it. I think it's using the BotW engine, which is probably UE4.

Here's an interesting comparison shot:

This may well be the same model, but we can see that the shadowing and cel-shading is more prevalent in gen8. Slightly different contrast and brightness too. How much of this has to be manually added or hand-drawn I have no idea.

As a side note, I really like that they're giving us a higher view distance for the battle backgrounds now and that what's shown in the background is actually the game world.

 

[Hydr8gon]

Here's an interesting comparison shot:

Yeah, that's definitely the same model. They have different textures, and the shaders and stuff are obviously different, but the actual polygons themselves are unchanged. It would just be a matter of updating the textures to get all the mons into the new game, which wouldn't be too hard seeing how simple the textures are.

 

[Xzi]

Yeah, that's definitely the same model. They have different textures, and the shaders and stuff are obviously different, but the actual polygons themselves are unchanged. It would just be a matter of updating the textures to get all the mons into the new game, which wouldn't be too hard seeing how simple the textures are.

It took me a while to find a side-by-side like that, but yeah, it does make it more obvious that the models are the same. My apologies for insisting that wasn't the case. I guess it does simply come down to Game Freak's "balance" excuse, but that doesn't sit right with me. Gamers will always find strategies which make or break the meta, and balancing 200+ Pokemon is just as impossible as balancing 1000+. Pokemon has never been a truly competitive game anyway.

 

[Hydr8gon]

It took me a while to find a side-by-side like that, but yeah, it does make it more obvious that the models are the same. My apologies for insisting that wasn't the case. I guess it does simply come down to Game Freak's "balance" excuse, but that doesn't sit right with me. Gamers will always find strategies which make or break the meta, and balancing 200+ Pokemon is just as impossible as balancing 1000+. Pokemon has never been a truly competitive game anyway.

Don't worry about it, thanks for finding the side-by-side! And yeah, I totally agree with you on the balance thing. It just seems like a weak excuse. I hope they change their mind; I really want these games to be good. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[pedro702]

Well then I tip my hat to you good sir. I got over 200 hours in Pearl but there's no way I'd have the patience to do that much IV/Nature/EV breeding. I did it for a few mons and even that was way too much effort.

im a huge pokemon fan so yeah i got thousands of hours on many games, the ones i have least is sun and mon, i didnt like them much, but i liked X and Y tough, no reason why sun moon got a third version and x and y didnt :S

 

[Xzi]

Don't worry about it, thanks for finding the side-by-side! And yeah, I totally agree with you on the balance thing. It just seems like a weak excuse. I hope they change their mind; I really want these games to be good. I'm not holding my breath though.

They're doing some things I like in gen8, such as the Wild Area and raid battles, but I don't know why GF has to match every exciting feature with something disappointing. For example, I was hyped to see some badass armored evolutions, Mewtwo's in particular, but instead of adding a feature that would make sense for the 'Sword and Shield' namesake, they went with Dynamax. Not a terrible concept, just a let down compared to expectations.

Anyway, at least there are more games out there taking up the mantle. I backed both Temtem and Monster Crown, the alphas for both are coming along nicely in different ways.

 

[Deleted User]

Disappointed no Porygon or Lycanroc. But I think it's good they're putting a cap to the amount of available Pokemon.
There's a rumor about Meowth having a new form and they said the list might expand later. Would be weird to travel around the UK and never encounter a cat. Also, would be weird not to include the star of this year's movie in this year's game.

 

[InsaneNutter]

Not all past Pokemon need to be obtainable in the game, that gives you an excuse to play a past game from a few generations ago and bring the Pokemon in to the present gen, post game.

Look at Black / White, you can't use any past Pokemon until you basically finish the game and get the national Pokedex.

I suspect it way too time consuming to create 3D models of all the Pokemon, hopefully by the time we get the next Gen 8 game all Pokemon will be usable in Gen 8.

One of the best things about Pokemon is been able to play any past game and transfer your team to present games so they live on. I mean they even fixed this in Gen 7 allowing Poke Transporter to transfer from the Gen 1 and 2 VC games.

 

[Xzi]

I suspect it way too time consuming to create 3D models of all the Pokemon, hopefully by the time we get the next Gen 8 game all Pokemon will be usable in Gen 8.

Don't make my mistake of assuming they're using new models for old Pokemon, all models have been the same since gen 6. They still have to create models for gen 8 obviously, but everything else they could simply import from the 3DS engine. Their excuse for not doing so is game balance, but I don't find that very convincing.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

im a huge pokemon fan so yeah i got thousands of hours on many games, the ones i have least is sun and mon, i didnt like them much, but i liked X and Y tough, no reason why sun moon got a third version and x and y didnt :S

So am I but I just don't have the patience.
Yeah, it's weird they never made Pokemon Z, considering there was even a legendary in X/Y for it that was never officially obtainable and only became obtainable later on in Sun/Moon, they clearly originally had plans to release Pokemon Z, but when that didn't happen they had to find another use for the legendary.

 

[KingVamp]

I still think some people are being a bit too disregarding towards the work they did on the game. That said, if their only reason is "balance" and they could have already had all the Pokemon on time or they couldn't, but they don't plan on doing all of the Pokemon at once anyway, is pretty ridiculous.

With all the backlash, I truly wonder if they really aren't going eventually back down from that.

I can't back this up, but remember that customization was meant to be a X/Y exclusive. Clearly they change their mind.

 

[Xzi]

I still think some people are being a bit too disregarding towards the work they did on the game.

All the dynamic stuff in the Wild Area is very cool, and I appreciate the engine upgrade for sure, but there's no way they weren't aware that the exclusion of so many Mons would cause a negative fan reaction.

(For those that still aren't sure this is a different engine: it's third-person with a player-controlled camera instead of isometric like every other Pokemon game.)

 

[Bedel]

So am I but I just don't have the patience.
Yeah, it's weird they never made Pokemon Z, considering there was even a legendary in X/Y for it that was never officially obtainable and only became obtainable later on in Sun/Moon, they clearly originally had plans to release Pokemon Z, but when that didn't happen they had to find another use for the legendary.

As far as I can remember, Zygarde was obtainable in XY, at the Terminus Cave.