How trade wars are fought. (China and the EU punish Trump states)

[SG854]

It'll always be a manufactured crisis. The Trump administration cut off aid to all South American countries months ago, knowing full well the result would be tons more refugees. They knew full well that Mexico wouldn't be able to handle that kind of influx on their own, too. On top of which, Trump hasn't defined his parameters for Mexico's "success" in this matter. Which means all we're left with is an escalating tax on Americans that isn't likely to go away until Trump is voted out of office or impeached.

Just more acts of bad faith and constant attempts to gaslight the American public. If Trump wants to go to war with Venezuela, he just needs to get on with it already. I think he's saving that boner for Iran, though.

I was using manufactured crisis in that it was a fake made up crisis, that we don’t have a border problem. But we do. And media outlets are finally admitting.


Aid is a helping hand. One doesn’t have to give aid, but is a nice gesture when they do. It’s not the U.S. fault that Mexico has problems. And these problems existed before Trump became president.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

And right here it says U.S. pledges $10.6 billion dollars in Aid to Central America and Southern Mexico.

https://www.apnews.com/0fcda32812024680ad98676379c47233

 

[Xzi]

was using manufactured crisis in that it was a fake made up crisis, that we don’t have a border problem.

Not the same thing. 'Manufactured crisis' is exactly what it sounds like, a crisis that has been manufactured for someone's benefit.

Aid is a helping hand. One doesn’t have to give aid, but is a nice gesture when they do.

That's all good and fine, but cutting off aid to a country that's already in turmoil is going to have consequences. That's pretty much common sense. Then when those consequences finally arrive, Republicans do nothing but pass the blame around. This crisis isn't Mexico's fault, it's the US government's. Tariffs do nothing to help contain the flow of migrants from South America, they only add to the clusterfuck.

 

[SG854]

Not the same thing. 'Manufactured crisis' is exactly what it sounds like, a crisis that has been manufactured for someone's benefit.


That's all good and fine, but cutting off aid to a country that's already in turmoil is going to have consequences. That's pretty much common sense. Then when those consequences finally arrive, Republicans do nothing but pass the blame around. This crisis isn't Mexico's fault, it's the US government's. Tariffs do nothing to help contain the flow of migrants from South America, they only add to the clusterfuck.

I already explained how Manufactured Crisis was used by media so I won’t explain again.


I gave you a link that US pledges $10.6 billion specifically to help this migrant crisis problem.


I don’t see how Republicans devised a plan to create a crisis, a sinister plan to manufacture one so that migrants can come here in record numbers, when in fact Republicans are against illegal migrants and US is giving $10.6 billion in aid to help stop this problem.


South Americas problems was not created by the US. You are giving the US too much credit. The recent tariffs are only temporary till Mexico gets its act together. The crisis existed before the recent tariffs. They say they are trying but we are still getting record numbers. We are even getting migrants from Africa.

 

[Xzi]

I already explained how Manufactured Crisis was used by media so I won’t explain again.

I never heard the media use that term once, actually. They called it a fake emergency, which it was until South American refugees started arriving. Throughout Trump's entire campaign you heard nothing but ragging on Mexico, not a peep about South America. Now he's trying to move the goalposts while assuming we're all too stupid to notice.

I gave you a link that US pledges $10.6 billion specifically to help this migrant crisis problem.

Well, for one thing, according to that article you posted, this is less than half the amount of money that's estimated as necessary to secure the region. For another, I'm not sure how much of that pledge was actually fulfilled before the Trump administration took a hardline stance in the other direction:

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/7090...n-aid-could-worsen-migrant-crisis-experts-say

South Americas problems was not created by the US.

No, but their problems were worsened by the US government's actions.

We are even getting migrants from Africa.

So? We're a country of nothing but migrants (except for the very small percentage of natives). You might as well be complaining about Irish migrants.

 

[SG854]

I never heard the media use that term once, actually. They called it a fake emergency, which it was until South American refugees started arriving. Throughout Trump's entire campaign you heard nothing but ragging on Mexico, not a peep about South America. Now he's trying to move the goalposts while assuming we're all too stupid to notice.


Well, for one thing, according to that article you posted, this is less than half the amount of money that's estimated as necessary to secure the region. For another, I'm not sure how much of that pledge was actually fulfilled before the Trump administration took a hardline stance in the other direction:

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/02/7090...n-aid-could-worsen-migrant-crisis-experts-say


No, but their problems were worsened by the US government's actions.


So? We're a country of nothing but migrants (except for the very small percentage of natives). You might as well be complaining about Irish migrants.

That’s exactly the sense I used manufactured crisis as a fake made emergency, that’s how I used it in my original post.

One of the definitions of Manufacture is invent or fabricate evidence or a story. Media accused of Republicans making up the crisis of migrant problems, a manufactured crisis. But now admit Republicans didn’t make up this crisis, so crisis isn’t manufactured. Which you admitted the media did early on. I have no idea what your arguing about on the use of the word and I’m not going to argue the use of the word anymore because I’m wasting my time explaining it.




In your article it says in El Salvador even after the cuts Migration dropped down by a little more then half, and say it might be too early to decide if the programs are working. Billions of dollars is a lot of money that we can’t freely throw around. And South America isn’t the only country US is aiding.


How much aid should be given? How much is too much that ends up not doing anything and we get diminishing returns? How much is too little? Should we give more aid like around triple or quadruple then even under Obama? They cut under the impression that it wasn’t doing anything and the money can be better spent elsewhere. El Salvador shows at least for now the cuts had no impact. There is critics in the article that the cut is a bad idea but need to hold the South American counties accountable for this problem.


I am not complaining about migration itself, I know we are a nation of immigrants. I’m just saying we have a migration problem as in illegal migration, which I thought was clear in my previous post and didn’t require me to repeat.

 

[Xzi]

That’s exactly the sense I used manufactured crisis as a fake made emergency, that’s how I used it in my original post.

Right, but I've never heard the media refer to the emergency declaration as 'manufactured.' I've only ever heard them call it 'fake.' I call it manufactured myself because that's what it appears to be.

Billions of dollars is a lot of money that we can’t freely throw around.

Then the administration shouldn't have committed to it in the first place, rather than contradicting themselves just a couple months later.

I’m just saying we have a migration problem as in illegal migration, which I thought was clear in my previous post and didn’t require me to repeat.

Seems to me it would be extremely difficult to illegally immigrate to America from Africa.

 

[Xzi]

I guess Trump felt like he really needed a win right now, because he's canceled the Mexico tariffs. Of course, Mexico had already agreed to take border actions months ago, long before Trump even started threatening them. In other words, this was all just theater, and bad theater at that.

 

[CMDreamer]

Trumpet's trade war is a measure to uneffectively avoid U.S. downfall as the main global economy.

It will, on the opposite hand, affect themselves, as the U.S. dollar will not be anymore the main currency for economical trading, as it is being used as a way to pressure other countries, that at some point, will stop using it as a reference for their trading.

 

[notimp]

Huawai is about to sue Verizon over 1 Billion USD in patent ownership charges on 230 accounts:
https://www.asianage.com/technology...-over-usd-1-billion-for-over-230-patents.html

"But what does this mean for my phone?!"

 

[SG854]

So they denied a southern border problem then later did a U turn admitting it’s a problem and finally gave Trump the 4.5 billion he wanted.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehil...n-on-calling-border-a-manufactured-crisis?amp



We had not proper funding for the boarder problem so conditions are horrible because of lack of funding. People are dying. Dems have been blocking Trump from getting his money then blame Trump for bad conditions.



I can’t believe I wasted my time on this thread arguing about the use of the word Manufactured Crisis and the denial/lack of simple internet search that Dems used that word which 1) the word I was not using incorrectly, and 2) Dems actually admitted that using that word was not the best thing to do. So they did use that word and it wasn’t something I just pulled out of my ass out of thin air to accuse them of, which they admitting to using it is in the above link I gave.


This is why I’m annoyed with politics right now. And wanna spend less time arguing with people because I’m not making any progress and not learning anything from talking with stubborn people who won’t admit to simple facts they can quickly find in a google search. I end up being proven right every time not because I’m special or smarter but because they are simple facts people just straight up ignore. I was right about the use of the word.


The problem is people just arguing, instead of understanding the context, the context of how the word is being used to understand the argument the person is saying, they just twist shit using mental gymnastics in a way to try to have a winning argument. Just taking past each other with 2 different things, interpretations and uses being argued about instead of addressing the damn main argument. The goal is I wanna make this person or side look bad and do whatever twisting to reach that. And they end up being wrong because they never addressed the main argument to begin with.

And the whole banning conservatives is not a conspiracy theory. Whistle blowers have leaked internal google documents of them targeting conservatives. Another thing that was clearly obvious. I’m done with this nonsense stupid politicking. It’s a waste of time.

 

[notimp]

We had not proper funding for the boarder problem so conditions are horrible because of lack of funding. People are dying. Dems have been blocking Trump from getting his money then blame Trump for bad conditions.

Partly true. Trump wanted a prestige project that doesnt work (wall), also conditions arent necessarily poor, only because of a lack of funding. Part of it is to detract others from coming.

But then - separating children from their parents, letting them sleep on the stone floor, not giving them toothbrushes - or medical attention, and then 'loosing' the paperwork that would make it possible to reunite them with their parents - serves what purpose exactly?

Giving press conferences where you openly gloat about having send of parts of people to senctury cities - who werent happy about it, serves what purpose exactly?

Having dudebro militias round up people at gunpoint, without any legal authority, for your concentration camps, serves what purpose exactly? (Concentration camps and death camps where 'different' (there was a distinction) back over in germany. I'm mentioning this, because I know the political discussion in the US, if the term can be used - because people would think of holocaust, as soon as you mention the word).

Face it - your outfits are run by morons. Part of the harm is done on purpose - part of it is done, because sick fucks get drawn in positions of perceived power as well.

You have failed states south of you border - part of the left and right would say, that thats your responsibility as well. (In Civilisations sometimes its better to barter with your neighbors, before military huntas take over. All you only ever did with south america was to wage wars for "stability".)

 

[Xzi]

So they denied a southern border problem then later did a U turn admitting it’s a problem and finally gave Trump the 4.5 billion he wanted.

I'm concerned there aren't enough strings attached to this. If Trump is handed a blank check, he's not going to spend a cent on improving conditions for children and other migrants. Trump wanted this money for a stupid fucking wall, and that's exactly where he'll spend it given the chance.

Meanwhile, the acting CBP commissioner resigned today, seemingly over objections to how immigrants are being treated at detention centers.

Edit: guess I should have a little more faith.

The bill contains more than $1 billion to shelter and feed migrants detained by the border patrol and almost $3 billion to care for unaccompanied migrant children who are turned over the Department of Health and Human Services. It seeks to mandate improved standards of care at HHS “influx shelters” that house children waiting to be placed with sponsors such as family members in the U.S.

Both House and Senate bills ensure funding could not be shifted to Trump’s border wall and would block information on sponsors of immigrant children from being used to deport them. Trump would be denied additional funding for Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention beds.

“The President’s cruel immigration policies that tear apart families and terrorize communities demand the stringent safeguards in this bill to ensure these funds are used for humanitarian needs only — not for immigration raids, not detention beds, not a border wall,” said House Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Nita Lowey, D-N.Y.

https://apnews.com/1da70ca1789149a5a2aaf49a869c985c

Now the only issue is that Trump has threatened a veto because of these restrictions.

 

[notimp]

Trade war from a moderate chinese perspective:
https://www.project-syndicate.org/c...-engagement-containment-by-minxin-pei-2019-07

None of what is urged for in the article is likely to happen. Likely cause for the tradewar is containment. Imho.