Homebrew Question The REAL Reason why no XCI support outside of SXOS

[Grmmish]

SOLVED

RednaxelaNnamtra
Atmospehre is not supporting nsp installations that are not your own eshop dumps that are properly signed for your console by itself, only when you use external patches you can install converted nsps, homebrew nsps or pirated nsps.

Also here is a post from a dev about this topic:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/whats-the-challenge-with-the-xci-loader.520247/page-3#post-8324588


and a bit from him about the possibility of the user dumping this information by himself:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/whats-the-challenge-with-the-xci-loader.520247/page-4#post-8440923


No more discussion.


ORIGINAL:

Ok. I heard many stories. "XCI is only for piracy." "No one cares for piracy or supports it other than money-grabbing TX" blablabla.

Can someone tell me the REAL reason behind NSP-only suppport? It seems far-fetched the guys don't make XCI support when a lot of things (Non piracy related) has allowed far malicious things than XCI.
All I can think of is NSPs are simply icons on the screen with a game. Which XCIs are packaged in a cartridge form... Where homebrew should not be packaged in a cartridge form? My point is. There is an XCI->NSP and Installable XCIs.... So where is the problem? Yes. They are BOTH able to be used for piracy so I simply do not understand these reasons. And I KNOW tX is not the only ones with the knowledge and ability to mount XCI due to more vast knowledge. Come on.

 

[der:Tom]

I also never understood this since the first hack, xci has some advantages over nsp like mounting them from usb also we already can build our own xci´s with updates and dlcs, we can install them like nsp´s so they are playable (-> piracy) but we CAN`T just mount them (without sx)?

 

[ghjfdtg]

The people who can do it don't give a fuck because XCI is irrelevant for homebrew. It's as simple as that. And it's not legal anyway since it requires copyrighted material to make it work.

 

[comput3rus3r]

Ok. I heard many stories. "XCI is only for piracy." "No one cares for piracy or supports it other than money-grabbing TX" blablabla.

Can someone tell me the REAL reason behind NSP-only suppport? It seems far-fetched the guys don't make XCI support when a lot of things (Non piracy related) has allowed far malicious things than XCI.
All I can think of is NSPs are simply icons on the screen with a game. Which XCIs are packaged in a cartridge form... Where homebrew should not be packaged in a cartridge form? My point is. There is an XCI->NSP and Installable XCIs.... So where is the problem? Yes. They are BOTH able to be used for piracy so I simply do not understand these reasons. And I KNOW tX is not the only ones with the knowledge and ability to mount XCI due to more vast knowledge. Come on.

this has been explained so many times already.

 

[linuxares]

1) TX way to implement it is highly illegal
2) XCI isn't necessity for a majority
3) Nobody have cared to make one since argument nr. 2. NSP files are fine for like 99% of the pirates.

 

[Litle_Bird]

1) TX way to implement it is highly illegal
2) XCI isn't necessity for a majority
3) Nobody have cared to make one since argument nr. 2. NSP files are fine for like 99% of the pirates.

I'm just curious, howcome TX's implementation of XCI-loading is illegal? I always guessed they more or less redirect the calls to/from the cartridge slot to the nand somewhat similar to how the cIOS on the Wii would redirect the drive calls to a USB device.

 

[linuxares]

I'm just curious, howcome TX's implementation of XCI-loading is illegal? I always guessed they more or less redirect the calls to/from the cartridge slot to the nand somewhat similar to how the cIOS on the Wii would redirect the drive calls to a USB device.

Nope, what I heard they ripped the firmware out of the card, implenented it to their software, and that's why it can do the mounting. How true it is I don't know, but the way they do it anyway is illegal. Plus keys etc are inside it.

 

[Deleted User]

well currently there are no real reasons
btw its illegal yes and NSPs not? @linuxares
and its only for piracy.... but EmuNAND and NSPs not for piracy?
yea perfect arguments
SX OS got already cracked but extracting SYSMODS is a to big progress (i GuEsS) so no real reasons
but so SX OS has still reasons to buy it.... and thats good...

 

[jakkal]

well currently there are no real reasons
btw its illegal yes and NSPs not? @linuxares
and its only for piracy.... but EmuNAND and NSPs not for piracy?
yea perfect arguments
SX OS got already cracked but extracting SYSMODS is a to big progress (i GuEsS) so no real reasons
but so SX OS has still reasons to buy it.... and thats good...

About your sig
why would you rip your own games and not have the cert for it?

 

[linuxares]

well currently there are no real reasons
btw its illegal yes and NSPs not? @linuxares
and its only for piracy.... but EmuNAND and NSPs not for piracy?
yea perfect arguments
SX OS got already cracked but extracting SYSMODS is a to big progress (i GuEsS) so no real reasons
but so SX OS has still reasons to buy it.... and thats good...

Let me break it up:
XCI files are manily rips from games, nsp files are very much so, but not always. A lot of homebrews are installed as nsp files.
Emunand is not for piracy only, homebrew as well. To keep your sysnand clean and if someone breaks your emunand, it just broke your emunand.
SXOS have been cracked multiple times as far as I know, nobody just have cared to release the cracked version(?) I can't say if it's true or not since I never seen it in action.

Yes, SXOS got reasons but buy it, but also a lot of reasons not to. It's up to the users themselves to decide.

 

[lordelan]

but EmuNAND and NSPs not for piracy?

EmuNAND is great for homebrew users in the first place. Not necessarily pirates.
Also there are NSPs of homebrews (Goldleaf, RetroArch, HBmenu to name the most famous ones) and they can be created easily with NRO2NSP.

I want XCI mounting in Atmo as well but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Edit: by linuxares

 

[enarky]

I'm pretty sure few people would care for XCI loading anymore if it was possible to mount NSPs like XCIs. Personally I just don't want to go through the installation orgy anytime I just want to try out a new game. A simple NSP choser that mounts any NSP to a placeholder entry, like XCIs being mounted to the cartridge slot, would be pretty great.

 

[Taorn]

I'm pretty sure few people would care for XCI loading anymore if it was possible to mount NSPs like XCIs. Personally I just don't want to go through the installation orgy anytime I just want to try out a new game. A simple NSP choser that mounts any NSP to a placeholder entry, like XCIs being mounted to the cartridge slot, would be pretty great.

I actually never quite understood why people get so emotional over this topic. Nor why nsp installation is considered as such a hassle.

I found XCI mounting to be much more bothersome. Instead of doing a one time installation, you would need to mount the games image everytime you want to play it. It's basically a one time investment against the need to invest time each time you want to play another game.

I'm also curious how long it takes for this to derail into tribalism. : - )

 

[Draxzelex]

well currently there are no real reasons
btw its illegal yes and NSPs not? @linuxares
and its only for piracy.... but EmuNAND and NSPs not for piracy?
yea perfect arguments
SX OS got already cracked but extracting SYSMODS is a to big progress (i GuEsS) so no real reasons
but so SX OS has still reasons to buy it.... and thats good...

Since you decided to open your mouth and spout nonsense for the umpteenth time...
nothing about installing and launching .NSP files are illegal like .XCI files which are illegally implemented because as linuxares said, TX used Nintendo's code to implement .XCI loading.

 

[Deleted User]

Since you decided to open your mouth and spout nonsense for the umpteenth time...
nothing about installing and launching .NSP files are illegal like .XCI files which are illegally implemented because as linuxares said, TX used Nintendo's code to implement .XCI loading.

and you are using Nintendos code to install NCAs NSPs and CMNT NCAs...

 

[Mthodmn101]

The only reason I see now for XCI loading would be if usb was implemented on atmos. Most of the time my switch is docked so would be nice to have access to most of my games instead of being limited by size of SD card, even though a 400gb card is super cheap now

 

[Draxzelex]

and you are using Nintendos code to install NCAs NSPs and CMNT NCAs...

Please cite Nintendo code in Tinfoil, Goldleaf, DZ, etc.

 

[enarky]

I found XCI mounting to be much more bothersome. Instead of doing a one time installation, you would need to mount the games image everytime you want to play it. It's basically a one time investment against the need to invest time each time you want to play another game.

Which is perfectly fine if you're playing a game regularly. I just want to give new games a spin for a while, mostly if I haven't decided that I want to buy them. Most of the games I try won't ever be loaded a second time. Installing them as NSP would be a huge waste of time.

 

[FAST6191]

I find the talk of keys and ripped code to be amusing, and probably a red herring of sorts, or at least a convenient excuse* to dismiss things with, if going by historical examples and likely legal outcomes of things anyway. That said it could well be those these days with the time, tools and talent** to implement such a feature, possibly also maintain it, have it contrived such that it is against their morals. Most such times if it happens then so it goes, indeed we saw it several times on the Switch already as that file replacement method got twisted to wholesale replacement and thus ROM running. More amusingly is if SXOS is so deleterious to the future of the homebrew scene as some seem to want to claim then "take away their advantages" is a superb plan, though that would also mean making somewhat stable and workable stuff so that might be a bigger ask than I realise.

*I think my favourite being "the switch is optionally portable so nobody wants USB" when "clearly not as in this very thread, repeated other threads and citations, reviews and general bloody logic would showcase" is the immediate answer. I don't know if that is a supremely bad attempt at gaslighting (though I have seen worse attempts work) or similar manipulation.

**while it is a non trivial effort (not just an "add to allowed extensions and recompile" type job) I have seen some claim it is a more involved thing, and others claim it is an hour or so. Not sure what to believe here but "nothing a determined evening of coding could not sort" is probably where I would put my money. From scratch might be more but at the same time the concepts do seem to be well known and understood. Even if distribution of it "as is" might be tricky one traditionally then makes a "plugin" type scenario. This does also mean the old staple of "source is that way, feel free to do it yourself" is in play.

 

[crono999]

As far as I know, you need a driver to mount an xci, that’s where the problem is.

Writing the driver isn’t a problem tough, but using/releasing it....