Hacking RGH Chip Options in 2018 for Trinity

[bengalih]

Hey guys. Honestly I've been reading through threads here and elsewhere about how to mod my Trinity (as cheaply as possible - within reason).
So much info and can't tell what is "up-to-date".

Best I can understand is I need at least:
(1) a way to read/program NAND
(2) a chip to glitch the system on boot

And optionally:
(3) a chip to store dual NANDs and switch between them

It seems that for (1) I can do this with a "Matrix NAND Programmer" for about $7 USD. Why would I need to buy alternatives that are 5-8x more expensive?

For (2) it seems that the ACE v3 chip (~$7 USD), "Matrix Glitcher" (~$7 USD) and the CR4 (~$25 USD) are options.

I've seen posts about different versions of Matrix Glitcher chips (1,2,3?) and also chips with a crystal oscillator and without.

I've also seen some things talking about S-RGH which uses timing files which have to be loaded onto these glitch chips?

It is a little overwhelming, and I'm sure I will learn all about as I jump in and actually do it. To start thought I'd just like to order what I need so I can get my hands dirty.

Can someone confirm that the Matrix Programmer is sufficient?
As for glitch chip, which of the options are better/worse. Is the $25 CR4 really necessary over the $7 options? What are the pros/cons.

thanks.

 

[brickmii82]

Hey guys. Honestly I've been reading through threads here and elsewhere about how to mod my Trinity (as cheaply as possible - within reason).
So much info and can't tell what is "up-to-date".

Best I can understand is I need at least:
(1) a way to read/program NAND
(2) a chip to glitch the system on boot

And optionally:
(3) a chip to store dual NANDs and switch between them

It seems that for (1) I can do this with a "Matrix NAND Programmer" for about $7 USD. Why would I need to buy alternatives that are 5-8x more expensive?

For (2) it seems that the ACE v3 chip (~$7 USD), "Matrix Glitcher" (~$7 USD) and the CR4 (~$25 USD) are options.

I've seen posts about different versions of Matrix Glitcher chips (1,2,3?) and also chips with a crystal oscillator and without.

I've also seen some things talking about S-RGH which uses timing files which have to be loaded onto these glitch chips?

It is a little overwhelming, and I'm sure I will learn all about as I jump in and actually do it. To start thought I'd just like to order what I need so I can get my hands dirty.

Can someone confirm that the Matrix Programmer is sufficient?
As for glitch chip, which of the options are better/worse. Is the $25 CR4 really necessary over the $7 options? What are the pros/cons.

thanks.

Just get a JR Programmer. You'll end up pulling your hair out with what firmwares to use and what dash building programs are compatible with what programmers.

I'd also recommend just a typical Coolrunner Rev C. Wrap the cpu reset wire around the xclamp and you'll have a 5-30 second boot typically. SRGH is an option, however they use Ace V3 chips and there are production runs on the Aces that were incompatible with Trinity boards so its a crapshoot which board you get. They can be fixed with a modification, but considering this is your first RGH do you really want to be making things more difficult?

Jr Programmer - Pros: Easy setup. Full compatibility with Jrunner
Cons: More Expensive

Coolrunner Rev C - Pros: Proven reliability, cheap, full compatibility with Jrunner
Cons: Glitch/boot time will be a bit longer at times.

Do it this way then improve it down the line with SRGH. This'll break you into RGH easy but educate you enough to improve it later.

 

[bengalih]

Just get a JR Programmer. You'll end up pulling your hair out with what firmwares to use and what dash building programs are compatible with what programmers.

I'd also recommend just a typical Coolrunner Rev C. Wrap the cpu reset wire around the xclamp and you'll have a 5-30 second boot typically. SRGH is an option, however they use Ace V3 chips and there are production runs on the Aces that were incompatible with Trinity boards so its a crapshoot which board you get. They can be fixed with a modification, but considering this is your first RGH do you really want to be making things more difficult?

Jr Programmer - Pros: Easy setup. Full compatibility with Jrunner
Cons: More Expensive

Coolrunner Rev C - Pros: Proven reliability, cheap, full compatibility with Jrunner
Cons: Glitch/boot time will be a bit longer at times.

Do it this way then improve it down the line with SRGH. This'll break you into RGH easy but educate you enough to improve it later.

Thanks. I think I'll definitely take your advice for the Coolrunner Rev C. for consideration. However I'm curious about:
a) What are the differences in boot times were I to use Ace V3? You state 5-30 for the CR, but what about the Ace?
b) Can I do S-RGH with the CR or only with the ACE?
c) Assuming I can get/program an ACE for the Trinity, in the end will that be the best/most flexible/more powerful option?

As for the JR Programmer over the Matrix - seems they run about $15 more. While that isn't a whole lot of money I'm not sure what the benefits I get. I don't mind things taking a bit longer..in fact sometimes I prefer it because I learn more. Could you give any more specifics of why the JR over Matrix?

And finally for my last question...are there dual nand chips that work with the Coolrunner? I saw one that apparently works only with Ace.
Not sure I want one, but I might add one later (if that is possible).

thanks

 

[brickmii82]

Thanks. I think I'll definitely take your advice for the Coolrunner Rev C. for consideration. However I'm curious about:
a) What are the differences in boot times were I to use Ace V3? You state 5-30 for the CR, but what about the Ace?
b) Can I do S-RGH with the CR or only with the ACE?
c) Assuming I can get/program an ACE for the Trinity, in the end will that be the best/most flexible/more powerful option?

As for the JR Programmer over the Matrix - seems they run about $15 more. While that isn't a whole lot of money I'm not sure what the benefits I get. I don't mind things taking a bit longer..in fact sometimes I prefer it because I learn more. Could you give any more specifics of why the JR over Matrix?

And finally for my last question...are there dual nand chips that work with the Coolrunner? I saw one that apparently works only with Ace.
Not sure I want one, but I might add one later (if that is possible).

thanks

https://gbatemp.net/threads/xenon-7371-jtagging.524591/ Read the last post and you'll understand why JR over Matrix.

Yes coolrunners are compatible with dual nand devices, however with the stock Jrunner timing file you'll have to hook up a CR EN which is Coolrunner Enable/Disable wire. With SRGH you dont worry about that because the developer included a detection system in the timing files that can tell if the console is booting up a stock kernel. I'd say put in the SRGH Ace when you do the dual nand. And yes, Aces are the only SRGH chip afaik.

 

[bengalih]

https://gbatemp.net/threads/xenon-7371-jtagging.524591/ Read the last post and you'll understand why JR over Matrix.

Yes coolrunners are compatible with dual nand devices, however with the stock Jrunner timing file you'll have to hook up a CR EN which is Coolrunner Enable/Disable wire. With SRGH you dont worry about that because the developer included a detection system in the timing files that can tell if the console is booting up a stock kernel. I'd say put in the SRGH Ace when you do the dual nand. And yes, Aces are the only SRGH chip afaik.

Getting a bit confused. SRGH basically improves the reset glitch for faster booting, right? And, if I want to do it - my only option is the Ace?
So why not go with the Ace? Because it might cause problems getting programmed for a Trinity?

It seems that if I go with a CoolRunner, the JR Programmer is the recommended option. However there is a way to convert a Matrix to program a CoolRunner. Granted that is a bit of work, not the least of which is getting a system running Windows 7 x32 since seemingly that is needed.

So basically if I go with a CoolRunner I pretty much have to go with a JRProgrammer or go though the hassle of the Matrix Programmer conversion. That sort of makes me lean back to going with the Ace and dealing with the possible Trinity issues.

If I am willing to go with the Ace, am I able to use the Matrix programmer to program it? I'm a little confused about these $5 Matrix programmers on eBay, do they need to be modified to flash just the Ace?

 

[brickmii82]

Getting a bit confused. SRGH basically improves the reset glitch for faster booting, right? And, if I want to do it - my only option is the Ace?
So why not go with the Ace? Because it might cause problems getting programmed for a Trinity?

It seems that if I go with a CoolRunner, the JR Programmer is the recommended option. However there is a way to convert a Matrix to program a CoolRunner. Granted that is a bit of work, not the least of which is getting a system running Windows 7 x32 since seemingly that is needed.

So basically if I go with a CoolRunner I pretty much have to go with a JRProgrammer or go though the hassle of the Matrix Programmer conversion. That sort of makes me lean back to going with the Ace and dealing with the possible Trinity issues.

If I am willing to go with the Ace, am I able to use the Matrix programmer to program it? I'm a little confused about these $5 Matrix programmers on eBay, do they need to be modified to flash just the Ace?

Yes they do need modifications, including proper firmware updates.

I explained why not go with the Ace already. There are faulty production runs that break compatibility with Trinity motherboards. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re trying to make chicken soup out of chicken shit here and I’m advising you to go the most user friendly route in order to avoid many complications that I’ve seen arise from other methods, at the most economical price.

I’m not saying it can’t be done with the methods and tools you’d like to use, I’m saying that you’re more likely to give up or have issues going this route. The thread I linked is an example.

 

[bengalih]

Yes they do need modifications, including proper firmware updates.

I explained why not go with the Ace already. There are faulty production runs that break compatibility with Trinity motherboards. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re trying to make chicken soup out of chicken shit here and I’m advising you to go the most user friendly route in order to avoid many complications that I’ve seen arise from other methods, at the most economical price.

I’m not saying it can’t be done with the methods and tools you’d like to use, I’m saying that you’re more likely to give up or have issues going this route. The thread I linked is an example.

Thanks - I appreciate your advice and the grief you are trying to save me. Honestly, the $15 difference is not my main decision point. I actually do enjoy encountering some issues because it lets me learn more about the scene and the different pieces involved. I'm relatively technically inclined and don't give up easily with this sort of thing

I hear what you are saying about the Ace chips, though I have seen from a couple of reputable vendors that they have boards that *do* work with Trinity (but probably need to be reprogrammed to do so).

I would like to see what I am getting into though if I decide to get a Matrix and program it to read Nand and then program an Ace.
Do you by any chance know of the best tutorial that might use that combination? In the end I may very well go with your respectable opinion, but I might decide I want the challenge

 

[brickmii82]

Thanks - I appreciate your advice and the grief you are trying to save me. Honestly, the $15 difference is not my main decision point. I actually do enjoy encountering some issues because it lets me learn more about the scene and the different pieces involved. I'm relatively technically inclined and don't give up easily with this sort of thing

I hear what you are saying about the Ace chips, though I have seen from a couple of reputable vendors that they have boards that *do* work with Trinity (but probably need to be reprogrammed to do so).

I would like to see what I am getting into though if I decide to get a Matrix and program it to read Nand and then program an Ace.
Do you by any chance know of the best tutorial that might use that combination? In the end I may very well go with your respectable opinion, but I might decide I want the challenge

I typically steer people towards Mr Mario and Weekend Modder, however they use NandX/JR programmers afaik. You could also have a look in the 360 section of the TX forums, as well as Se7ensins. All of those will have pieced resources for you to lean on. Whichever route you go, best of luck and I’ll help where I can if you have questions.

 

[bengalih]

I typically steer people towards Mr Mario and Weekend Modder, however they use NandX/JR programmers afaik. You could also have a look in the 360 section of the TX forums, as well as Se7ensins. All of those will have pieced resources for you to lean on. Whichever route you go, best of luck and I’ll help where I can if you have questions.

Thanks...really appreciate your time and advice...I've seen many of your postings around as I've been searching for information so I know your future help may be valuable!

One last tangential question as I'm making a decision here: In the end, whatever I choose the main purpose is to institute the reset glitch, which basically allows for code injection at reset which allows us to load exploits, custom code, what have you. Therefore once I have a working RGH chip, programmed appropriately the end result is the same, right?

IOW - the functionality of all is identical in terms of what I can run/how successfully I can run it...main difference might just be reset times?

I remember researching about this in the early days of the 360 and reading about how people had to constantly update firmwares on their systems. Is this something that is even necessary anymore with the maturity of the console?

 

[dekuleon]

I used JR-Programmer and X360Run red chip with changed capacitor... Very good and instant boots.

 

[brickmii82]

Thanks...really appreciate your time and advice...I've seen many of your postings around as I've been searching for information so I know your future help may be valuable!

One last tangential question as I'm making a decision here: In the end, whatever I choose the main purpose is to institute the reset glitch, which basically allows for code injection at reset which allows us to load exploits, custom code, what have you. Therefore once I have a working RGH chip, programmed appropriately the end result is the same, right?

IOW - the functionality of all is identical in terms of what I can run/how successfully I can run it...main difference might just be reset times?

I remember researching about this in the early days of the 360 and reading about how people had to constantly update firmwares on their systems. Is this something that is even necessary anymore with the maturity of the console?

Yes, no matter what the end result is the same. No, you won't have to worry about firmware updates. Not very often at least. The last Firmware (dashboard) update was for the new EU net privacy laws that you likely got 700 emails about from anyone you ever did anything online about/with/for. There could be one in the future however its not likely.

 

[Deleted member 668561]

My Trinity uses a matrix glitcher, (coolruner rev c ,xc2c64), glitch times are stable, I had to rewire it with shortest length, set the board to phat as it tends glitch far more quickly and stable, I use a 33pf cap instead of 270pf ( iirc ) cold boot tends to boot on average instant to about 25 sconds, once it has booted once it will usually instaboots or take 1-2 glitches to boot and iirc it's a 14699 nand, srgh cannot be done on this chip or coolrunner c, you need x360ace with the xc2c128 cpld that has more logic space to allow for srgh the others use a xc2c64 or c32, I find it funny that it will always instaboot xell 9/10 with Max of 1-3 glitches if not, otherwise it's about 5-10 seconds booting to dash

https://gbatemp.net/threads/xenon-7371-jtagging.524591/ Read the last post and you'll understand why JR over Matrix.

Yes coolrunners are compatible with dual nand devices, however with the stock Jrunner timing file you'll have to hook up a CR EN which is Coolrunner Enable/Disable wire. With SRGH you dont worry about that because the developer included a detection system in the timing files that can tell if the console is booting up a stock kernel. I'd say put in the SRGH Ace when you do the dual nand. And yes, Aces are the only SRGH chip afaik.

That's why I got a refund and just bought a jrprogrammer

 

[bengalih]

My Trinity uses a matrix glitcher, (coolruner rev c), glitch times are stable, I had to rewire it with shortest length, set the board to phat as it tends glitch far more quickly and stable, I use a 33pf cap instead of 270pf ( iirc ) cold boot tends to boot on average instant to about 25 sconds, once it has booted once it will usually instaboots or take 1-2 glitches to boot and iirc it's a 14699 nand, srgh cannot be don't on this chip or coolrunner, you need x360ace as that has more logic space to allow for srgh

Sorry why do you say "matrix glitcher, (coolruner rev c)"

Isn't a matrix glitcher and a coolrunner two different types of chip?

 

[Deleted User]

Done a couple thousand RGH and never had a bad ACE

For trinity ace or matrix give instaboot times if setup right, especially with SRGH

Get a nandX or jrprogrammer

That's all you will need besides solder gun and supplies etc

 

[Deleted member 668561]

Sorry why do you say "matrix glitcher, (coolruner rev c)"

Isn't a matrix glitcher and a coolrunner two different types of chip?

They are different boards, they use the same cpld xc2c64a which is part of xilinx coolrunner series of cpld, I would assume they don't make legit rev c boards anymore but they all work, I'd recommend the x360ace since you can srgh which afaik provides the best glitch times (I recommend that you buy ones where you can see xc2c128 idk if they new v4 or v5 use this same chip so look for v3) if you're not worried about tuning boot as much just get the matrx glitcher or whatever coolrunner board you fancy, just be sure they aren't rigged for a corona (will have a 48mhz crystal which are set for corona glitching and would have to remove a jumper or two, to disable it)

 

[bengalih]

Done a couple thousand RGH and never had a bad ACE

For trinity ace or matrix give instaboot times if setup right, especially with SRGH

Get a nandX or jrprogrammer

That's all you will need besides solder gun and supplies etc

Thanks. I'm leaning towards the Ace. Do you have a good tutorial that discusses how to do the install with the Ace on the trinity (including any updates I need to do for the ace), and how to setup the SRGH?

Also - if I decide to do a dual-nand install can I always choose to add that option later on? Just need to save a copy of my original NAND when I read it off?

 

[Deleted User]

Thanks. I'm leaning towards the Ace. Do you have a good tutorial that discusses how to do the install with the Ace on the trinity (including any updates I need to do for the ace), and how to setup the SRGH?

Also - if I decide to do a dual-nand install can I always choose to add that option later on? Just need to save a copy of my original NAND when I read it off?

https://www.se7ensins.com/forums/th...orial-start-to-finish-slim-only-16mb.1595235/

You will have to program the Ace and that's super easy (You will need Ace360 Timing files for the type of RGH you decide).


Dual Nand is always an option wether stock or if RGH is already installed. Always backup your NAND.

With Ace and trinity I always use shortest wires - 150MHZ folder - 60.0 folder and or 60.6 these timing files give instaboot or close too.

Other option:
Muffin
Muffin tutorial:

 

[bengalih]

https://www.se7ensins.com/forums/th...orial-start-to-finish-slim-only-16mb.1595235/

You will have to program the Ace and that's super easy (You will need Ace360 Timing files for the type of RGH you decide).

Thanks. Can I ask you about the Ace V3 vs the Ace V5? I don't see a lot of people mentioning the V5, but the offical ace360 site has it.
The reason I would like to use this chip are:
1) It seems newer
2) I can find them on eBay stating they are genuine with the Ace security code on them. If the code doesn't check out then I have some recourse.

The wiring pins on the V5 look slightly different, so I would want to make sure that people in the community have some experience with this chip.

thanks

 

[Deleted User]

Thanks. Can I ask you about the Ace V3 vs the Ace V5? I don't see a lot of people mentioning the V5, but the offical ace360 site has it.
The reason I would like to use this chip are:
1) It seems newer
2) I can find them on eBay stating they are genuine with the Ace security code on them. If the code doesn't check out then I have some recourse.

The wiring pins on the V5 look slightly different, so I would want to make sure that people in the community have some experience with this chip.

thanks

Cant get better than instaboot times so I never bothered trying the V5. I have ordered aces from many sellers throughout the years with no sticker and always worked.

Matrix with muffin is also instaboot. If you cant find an ace get a Matrix.

 

[bengalih]

Cant get better than instaboot times so I never bothered trying the V5. I have ordered aces from many sellers throughout the years with no sticker and always worked.

Matrix with muffin is also instaboot. If you cant find an ace get a Matrix.

Thanks...the difference between a Matrix and an ACE is like $3. The difference between buying from China on E-bay vs a US based reseller is about double. So my cheapest option is a Matrix on e-Bay for like $4 vs an ACE from a store for about $10. Personally, I'd rather save the money if you think the cheap Matrix boards will be fine. Ofc I won't blame you for anything, but what do you think? If the one of eBay doesn't work I can get a refund, I'd just be worried about it doing damage or else failing in the short term.