What's your stance on same-sex marriage and adoption?

[osm70]

A trans man or trans woman biologically do not correspond to the gender they see themselves as. No matter what procedures a trans person goes through, a trans woman will not be able to produce ovules and a trans man will not be able to produce sperm.

A child being raised by two people of the same sex might think that is the norm at some point on their life. It is not like that and they might get confused. That does not mean that they will be a bad person or not. It is not directly related.

"Having two parents of the opposite sex is the norm." Is that what you are saying?

 

[The Catboy]

A child being raised by two people of the same sex might think that is the norm at some point on their life. It is not like that and they might get confused. That does not mean that they will be a bad person or not. It is not directly related.

Expect it should be considered normal because there's nothing wrong with it. There's been plenty of studies that show children raised by LGBT parents grew up completely normal lives. The only real issue that most kids deal with is stupid people bullying them for having LGBT parents, which is really the fault of crappy society.

 

[chaoskagami]

A trans man or trans woman biologically do not correspond to the gender they see themselves as. No matter what procedures a trans person goes through, a trans woman will not be able to produce ovules and a trans man will not be able to produce sperm.

Except that someday it may be possible to convert iPS cells into sperm cells, so I can throw some of that out the window.

A child being raised by two people of the same sex might think that is the norm at some point on their life. It is not like that and they might get confused. That does not mean that they will be a bad person or not. It is not directly related.

Kids aren't that stupid, you know. They're gonna realize something is different, and the parents are going to explain that. sigh

 

[Localhorst86]

A child being raised by two people of the same sex might think that is the norm at some point on their life. It is not like that and they might get confused. That does not mean that they will be a bad person or not. It is not directly related.

It surprises me that it took so long to come up.

In essence: "Gay couples will make our children become gay."

 

[osm70]

It surprises me that it took so long to come up.

In essence: "Gay couples will make our children become gay."

I never understood that argument. What makes me even more confused is people who list this as the only "downside".

Let's take a very close look:

The only bad thing about being gay is that it spreads. Which means it cannot possibly be a bad thing, because it spreads something that is bad only because it spreads. At this point, we have a self-referential paradox.

 

[Localhorst86]

I never understood that argument. What makes me even more confused is people who list this as the only "downside".

Let's take a very close look:

The only bad thing about being gay is that it spreads. Which means it cannot possibly be a bad thing, because it spreads something that is bad only because it spreads. At this point, we have a self-referential paradox.

I would further question: If this really was a concern, why is "gay" in the first place? Wouldn't - by the same argument - heterosexual couples make heterosexual children?

 

[jahrs]

I believe in live and let live. Since it doesnt directly affect me and it helps on all sides ie makes people happy and gets kids adopted and out of foster homes and adoption agencies to parents who will love them(hopefully) i see no issue with it.

 

[chaoskagami]

While I'm at it, I'd like to point out that male !=XY and female != XX. There's quite a few other chromosomal layouts that can naturally occur, and it is in fact possible for XX males to exist and vice versa under natural conditions. So if someone here wants to argue genetics, don't.

The only bad thing about being gay is that it spreads. Which means it cannot possibly be a bad thing, because it spreads something that is bad only because it spreads. At this point, we have a self-referential paradox.

Aside from that, it's a mental/genetic thing based on brain development and hormonal chemistry, not something viral or memetic.

I would further question: If this really was a concern, why is "gay" in the first place? Wouldn't - by the same argument - heterosexual couples make heterosexual children?

And there we have the root of why this argument is bad, folks. If being gay was "against nature" then it wouldn't exist.

 

[AtsuNii]

It shouldn't be called "gay" marriage.
It should just be called marriage.

Exactly this, I don't see why it has to be called anything special, it is still 2 people loving eachother to death that want to stick with each other and want to make it offical.

I don't care what people think if i would for example walk hand in hand with my boyfriend or give him a kiss in public or whatever. Nor do I care when other people straight or not would do that. It should just be that way in my opinion. Don't stick you nose in other peoples business and keep it to yourself.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I completely support gay marriage. What someone does in their personal life that does not impede on my rights and liberties, and also does not lead to a child being harmed, are none of my business.

I also support gay couples adopting children.

The thing is, so many young girls get pregnant by accident and don't want the baby. Many times the child gets aborted. Often an unwanted child gets raised in a shitty life. It takes almost no effort to get pregnant and be a shitty parent.

It takes many months and thousands upon thousands of dollars to adopt a child. I am willing to wager that a same sex couple that is going to go through that many months and thousands of dollars will be better parents than the average teenage dumpster hoe.

As with any adoption process, regardless if the parents are straight or gay, the parents need to have a criminal background check, and their whole history examined to make sure that they are fit to raise a child. The same should be done for everyone else before they can take off their chastity belt. Stupid people and criminals should not be producing babies, but would eliminate 95% of the worlds population.

 

[Bullseye]

"Having two parents of the opposite sex is the norm." Is that what you are saying

Biological reproduction is the normal way for a species to continue. If reproduction cannot happen it is not as nature intended. You as a human being will come from that combination and you will therefore have what we call a father and a mother.

That trans, gay, whatever name you want to call it exist in nature, of course they exist. That is a fact. But at the same time the fact remains that they will not be able to reproduce between each other.

You can make up whatever mumbo jumbo you want but that is how it works.

This conversation will go like you people seeing things that you don't like, you will twist them or you will put your own words in my mouth, as some of you are already doing.

In any case in regards to this thread my stance is clear.

 

[chaoskagami]

Biological reproduction is the normal way for a species to continue. If reproduction cannot happen it is not as nature intended. You as a human being will come from that combination and you will therefore have what we call a father and a mother.

That trans, gay, whatever name you want to call it exist in nature, of course they exist. That is a fact. But at the same time the fact remains that they will not be able to reproduce between each other.

You can make up whatever mumbo jumbo you want but that is how it works.

This conversation will go like you people seeing things that you don't like, you will twist them or you will put your own words in my mouth, as some of you are already doing.

In any case in regards to this thread my stance is clear.

So in other words, the only thing that matters for the human race is reproduction in your opinion. If everyone thought like that, I can guarantee we'd go extinct.

EDIT: Let me be clear; I'd argue that the nature of the human race is propogation of knowledge, not genetic information. There's enough humans in the world that non-related people can inherit another's will and research as the case may be. That is how we as a species move forward. Genetic information does not drive the human race forwards towards a better future nor does it solve important problems at play today. If the only thing that mattered was reproduction, we might as well all be amoebae and reproduce through mitosis.

 

[Bullseye]

Expect it should be considered normal because there's nothing wrong with it. There's been plenty of studies that show children raised by LGBT parents grew up completely normal lives. The only real issue that most kids deal with is stupid people bullying them for having LGBT parents, which is really the fault of crappy society.

The issue is not the bullying those people receive. Children bully other children for any reason. Be it they are fat, ugly, have wider eyes, or shorter arms or whatever you can think of. The solution comes from what stance you take against that.

Issue is that you always expect someone else to protect you and if they don't you cry or say this is not fair and blame others.

Well, welcome to the world. Fight for your own and move forward. Time will not stop for you so you'd better do something about it

 

[AtsuNii]

Biological reproduction is the normal way for a species to continue. If reproduction cannot happen it is not as nature intended. You as a human being will come from that combination and you will therefore have what we call a father and a mother.

That trans, gay, whatever name you want to call it exist in nature, of course they exist. That is a fact. But at the same time the fact remains that they will not be able to reproduce between each other.

You can make up whatever mumbo jumbo you want but that is how it works.

This conversation will go like you people seeing things that you don't like, you will twist them or you will put your own words in my mouth, as some of you are already doing.

In any case in regards to this thread my stance is clear.

If the entire purpose of humanity is to reproduce, then we would have a big problem. That way we are gonna keep increasing the population on the planet and as it stands now already, there are problems of food and clean water already appearing. It will only make it worse to eventually a point that the entire system will collapse and taking humanity with it.

 

[chaoskagami]

The issue is not the bullying those people receive. Children bully other children for any reason. Be it they are fat, ugly, have wider eyes, or shorter arms or whatever you can think of. The solution comes from what stance you take against that.

Issue is that you always expect someone else to protect you and if they don't you cry or say this is not fair and blame others.

Well, welcome to the world. Fight for your own and move forward. Time will not stop for you so you'd better do something about it

Moshi-moshi, Brick wall-kun, is that you?

This is called "moving the goal posts." Try again.

 

[Bullseye]

So in other words, the only thing that matters for the human race is reproduction in your opinion. If everyone thought like that, I can guarantee we'd go extinct.

EDIT: Let me be clear; I'd argue that the nature of the human race is propogation of knowledge, not genetic information. There's enough humans in the world that non-related people can inherit another's will and research as the case may be. That is how we as a species move forward. Genetic information does not drive the human race forwards towards a better future nor does it solve important problems at play today. If the only thing that mattered was reproduction, we might as well all be amoebae and reproduce through mitosis.

That is where you are wrong. When a species reproduces genetics have more chances to continue improving. When that combination happens there are chances that the best traits are passed to the next generation, and you get individuals with stronger muscles, more immunity towards sicknesses, more intelligence...

And as it is some people will get that others won't. Part of the cycle. No need to start saying "only people of certain physical strength and beauty standards can reproduce from now on...."

 

[DeadlyFoez]

While I'm at it, I'd like to point out that male !=XY and female != XX. There's quite a few other chromosomal layouts that can naturally occur, and it is in fact possible for XX males to exist and vice versa under natural conditions. So if someone here wants to argue genetics, don't.

Just playing devils advocate here but...

Many people have been born with extra digits on their hands and feet or other strange mutations, that does not make it normal.

Whenever I discus with people that there are 2 sexes and they want to argue about the oddball hermaphrodites and strange shit like that, I ask them "How many fingers do humans have on each hand"? The response is always "5 fingers" or more correctly "4 fingers and a thumb". See, and now that person proved my point. Even though MANY people are born with extra digits, we all know that what is normal is for a person to have 4 fingers and a thumb. What is normal is just male and female. Trying to ever say "Yeah, but this type of condition that extremely rarely occurs is still a thing that we need to account for". No, we are talking about generally how things are. Lets not muddy it up with talking about the freak genetic changes that rarely happen.

Shit. I think I am losing the point of my argument here. It's far too early in the morning for me.

 

[kuwanger]

Well, let's see. I don't want to marry, same-sex or otherwise. And I don't want children, adoption or otherwise. So, am I anti both?

 

[DeadlyFoez]

That is where you are wrong. When a species reproduces genetics have more chances to continue improving. When that combination happens there are chances that the best traits are passed to the next generation, and you get individuals with stronger muscles, more immunity towards sicknesses, more intelligence...

And as it is some people will get that others won't. Part of the cycle. No need to start saying "only people of certain physical strength and beauty standards can reproduce from now on...."

That is not true at all. That is only if the parents are hand picked. If what you are saying was true then everyone would be perfect by now as humans have been reproducing for millions of years. Don't forget the laws of entropy. Anything unmanaged will go towards the direction of chaos.

 

[Localhorst86]

Well, let's see. I don't want to marry, same-sex or otherwise. And I don't want children, adoption or otherwise. So, am I anti both?

depends. Because you don't want it for yourself (which is fair), are you willing to deny that right to others?