Where do you fall on the political spectrum?

[MaverickWellington]

The whole point of civilization is to avoid what you're talking about. People depend on each other to varying degrees.

I'm curious about what you think of Stephen Hawking. Did he count as "someone who cant function"?

This is a fantastic counter argument. I'd also like to bring attention to the fact that some able bodied people who could totally survive in his oddly specific scenario physically may not survive mentally. They'd probably break down from the isolation and just not make it through. Suggestions for eugenics like this entirely come from ideals, they never actually come from study or logical reasoning.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Suggestions for eugenics like this entirely come from ideals, they never actually come from study or logical reasoning.

Well but Maverick. You see. He is on the side of SCIENCE, LOGIC, and REASONING! That means that no matter what his ideals must have a logical basis!

 

[Leobgood]

according to https://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/

I am forbidden from entering the survey...I guess that makes me literally Hitler. I'd rather be Stalin - he "eliminated" more peeps before his morning coffee than anyone else, except Mao Zedong, but he didn't drink coffee. Heroes to left...we can only dream of being as efficient.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I am forbidden from entering the survey...I guess that makes me literally Hitler. I'd rather be Stalin - he "eliminated" more peeps before his morning coffee than anyone else, except Mao Zedong, but he didn't drink coffee. Heroes to left...we can only dream of being as efficient.

Jesus Christ dude it's not that deep, the link's just broken. Search for it online and you'll find it

 

[guicrith]

This is a fantastic counter argument. I'd also like to bring attention to the fact that some able bodied people who could totally survive in his oddly specific scenario physically may not survive mentally. They'd probably break down from the isolation and just not make it through. Suggestions for eugenics like this entirely come from ideals, they never actually come from study or logical reasoning.

I am not just referring to able bodied, able minded is important too, 1 month isnt that long and I am not saying lock them in a closet for a month as a test either, they can still leave there house if they are lonely, they just wont have a caretaker with them, that wasnt an actual test that would be implemented, it was meant to describe the kind of people capable of surviving after all the services are pulled, there would be no actual "test", you would just survive or die.

As for Steven Hawking, yes he had something to offer, but you have to weigh that against everyone else who is wasting resources, there are far less Steven Hawkings then there are people with Alzheimers alone, no system can be perfect and losing him in return for gaining all the resources the others are wasting is a beneficial trade.

Well but Maverick. You see. He is on the side of SCIENCE, LOGIC, and REASONING! That means that no matter what his ideals must have a logical basis!

The basis is the optimization of society as whole(the resources as mentioned, no disability ramps, wheelchair elevators, crosswalk beepers), I even acknowledge that recessive traits hide and eugenics cant remove those traits, they just shouldnt be catered to.
Adapt or die, the world shouldnt have to match the lowest common denominator(which keeps getting lower as medicine improves).

 

[TotalInsanity4]

The basis is the optimization of society as whole(the resources as mentioned, no disability ramps, wheelchair elevators, crosswalk beepers), I even acknowledge that recessive traits hide and eugenics cant remove those traits, they just shouldnt be catered to.
Adapt or die, the world shouldnt have to match the lowest common denominator(which keeps getting lower as medicine improves).

So your argument is effectively that if someone breaks their legs, we should remove their ability to reintegrate into society until they heal

 

[MaverickWellington]

The basis is the optimization of society as whole(the resources as mentioned, no disability ramps, wheelchair elevators, crosswalk beepers), I even acknowledge that recessive traits hide and eugenics cant remove those traits, they just shouldnt be catered to.
Adapt or die, the world shouldnt have to match the lowest common denominator(which keeps getting lower as medicine improves).

Let me throw your own logic at you. Adapt or die. This is a much more grim form of "deal with it."

So I'll apply that very frankly. Deal with it. Who cares about disability ramps? Or Wheelchair elevators? Crosswalk beepers? Like, dude, just don't use them. You're not going to optimize society by removing that 15 feet by 5 feet ramp beside some stairs, nor will you improve the stairs by making them longer and taller or some shit. You aren't going to make it better by making elevators that don't accommodate people.

Are these your best examples of a society that "matches the lowest common denominator?" Extremely minor ease of access accommodations for people who otherwise would be just as able to do other shit that normally abled (don't know the better term for "people who aren't disabled," someone please school me there) are capable of doing despite their mobility?

What benefit would removing them and the people who use them from society bring? I know the "ists" and "isms" are thrown around too much but this sounds genuinely like it's literally just ableism.

I am not just referring to able bodied, able minded is important too, 1 month isnt that long and I am not saying lock them in a closet for a month as a test either, they can still leave there house if they are lonely, they just wont have a caretaker with them, that wasnt an actual test that would be implemented, it was meant to describe the kind of people capable of surviving after all the services are pulled, there would be no actual "test", you would just survive or die.

how the fuck is this not ableism

 

[TotalInsanity4]

(don't know the better term for "people who aren't disabled," someone please school me there)

"Abled" actually is the correct term, it's where "ableism" comes from

 

[MaverickWellington]

"Abled" actually is the correct term, it's where "ableism" comes from

That's what I wanted to roll with but like ableism the word seemed really weird. Abled, also like ableism, gives me squiggly red lines.

 

[spotanjo3]

I dont get involve in Political at all. They are ALL corruption, thats all. Dont trust them no matter what. NONE.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

That's what I wanted to roll with but like ableism the word seemed really weird. Abled, also like ableism, gives me squiggly red lines.View attachment 140838

Ew white theme

But yeah, it's the commonly accepted term, computer dictionaries just haven't caught up to it yet (much like a lot of more modern/rare terms)

 

[MaverickWellington]

Ew white theme

But yeah, it's the commonly accepted term, computer dictionaries just haven't caught up to it yet (much like a lot of more modern/rare terms)

Today I learned there's a dark theme, and hot damn is it sexy

Anyways back on topic, it's stances like this that give definitions to such terms. Like, I understand I'm reducing the argument pretty heavily, but how do you look at "if you're disabled, society should stop catering to you, and you should just learn to adapt or die" and not go "Yeah, this guy hates disabled people?"

Like, if I lose my legs, this doesn't prevent me from mixing drinks at a bar, which is the job I'll be picking up soon. The idea that just because your mobility is hindered you're suddenly useless is not only highly offensive, but downright ridiculous and can only come from two scenarios: a jaded teenager who doesn't interact with people, gets all his info online, and builds a ridiculous worldview from it, which is how I had my neo-nazi phase, or just a troll. Either way, it's stances like this that ironically make me interested in political debates, because there's a lot to talk about with them.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Today I learned there's a dark theme, and hot damn is it sexy

Anyways back on topic, it's stances like this that give definitions to such terms. Like, I understand I'm reducing the argument pretty heavily, but how do you look at "if you're disabled, society should stop catering to you, and you should just learn to adapt or die" and not go "Yeah, this guy hates disabled people?"

Like, if I lose my legs, this doesn't prevent me from mixing drinks at a bar, which is the job I'll be picking up soon. The idea that just because your mobility is hindered you're suddenly useless is not only highly offensive, but downright ridiculous and can only come from two scenarios: a jaded teenager who doesn't interact with people, gets all his info online, and builds a ridiculous worldview from it, which is how I had my neo-nazi phase, or just a troll. Either way, it's stances like this that ironically make me interested in political debates, because there's a lot to talk about with them.

Or, the third option: He's just a Nazi

Also

which is how I had my neo-nazi phase

There's a personal redemption story I'd like to hear sometime

 

[MaverickWellington]

Or, the third option: He's just a Nazi

I don't think he's a nazi. There's a term for it somewhere I think. Anarcho Communist or something? I've spoken to one that had a very similar stance with more ridiculous ideas than this.

As for the neo-nazi thing, I could DM you about it if you're genuinely interested. It's not some major drama story or anything, just an experience that makes me slightly more sympathetic to dumb kids with dumb political values, and why I believe people's lives shouldn't be ruined just because they say dumb shit.

 

[invaderyoyo]

I am not just referring to able bodied, able minded is important too, 1 month isnt that long and I am not saying lock them in a closet for a month as a test either, they can still leave there house if they are lonely, they just wont have a caretaker with them, that wasnt an actual test that would be implemented, it was meant to describe the kind of people capable of surviving after all the services are pulled, there would be no actual "test", you would just survive or die.

As for Steven Hawking, yes he had something to offer, but you have to weigh that against everyone else who is wasting resources, there are far less Steven Hawkings then there are people with Alzheimers alone, no system can be perfect and losing him in return for gaining all the resources the others are wasting is a beneficial trade.



The basis is the optimization of society as whole(the resources as mentioned, no disability ramps, wheelchair elevators, crosswalk beepers), I even acknowledge that recessive traits hide and eugenics cant remove those traits, they just shouldnt be catered to.
Adapt or die, the world shouldnt have to match the lowest common denominator(which keeps getting lower as medicine improves).

Wow, I didn't think you'd come out and call these people a waste of resources. Nobody wants to be in a place like what you're describing. Like I said before, it's exactly what we're trying to avoid.

Also, who says "the world shouldnt have to match the lowest common denominator"? Why not? Nature is cruel, but people don't have to be.

 

[Ericthegreat]

Republican(not this current kind of Republican) that likes food stamps. So I usually end up not voting lol.... I also strongly believe in universal health care.

 

[KingVamp]

A lot of people are getting replaced by automation anyway.

Republican(not this current kind of Republican) that likes food stamps. So I usually end up not voting lol.... I also strongly believe in universal health care.

Just curious, what about basic income?

 

[Ericthegreat]

A lot of people are getting replaced by automation anyway.


Just curious, what about basic income?

Yes, seems good, not exactly sure how it would be feasible, I'm pretty much democrat the only things I don't like about the far left are hormone replacements for children, and late term abortion, but I am very anti those things.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Yes, seems good, not exactly sure how it would be feasible, I'm pretty much democrat the only things I don't like about the far left are hormone replacements for children, and late term abortion, but I am very anti those things.

-snip-

So I'm going to rewrite what I had posted here, because I thought about it a bit and realized it wasn't correct: what you're describing really IS a moderate social democrat. With the exception of HRT for kids (which I think you should maybe go a bit more in depth on?), all of your views are honestly either pretty or VERY liberal

 

[WeedZ]

Again, I don't agree with or condone eugenics, but I want to chime in here. I at least partly see both sides here. He said earlier that he would leave those to die that couldnt survive on their own even if provided with food water and shelter. This doesn't apply to someone that lost their legs and works at a bar or someone in a wheelchair that requires a ramp. This applies to the catatonic, guadriplegic, non-responsive/non-verbal retardation. For those of you that don't know, I'm a male nurse currently working ltc. I work with these types of people every day. You would be surprised how often these people beg for death and morphine. They have zero quality of life. And often resources and help is so short that they don't get the full care they require on a daily basis.

As for the point of "leaving them to die" being worse than "extermination". That's basic human rights. The current law requires leaving them to suffer and die. There was a woman I read about (dont remember who or when, sorry) had a set of twins that went catatonic in early childhood for some reason. They spent 20 some years stuck in a bed with feeding tubes, caths, and ostomy bags. They were nothing but hunks of unmoving flesh and trapped minds.

The mother fought for years to have them euthanized but because of the " simple, bitch" human rights laws, she could only remove forms of life support, ie. feeding tubes. And let them suffer for weeks until they died of starvation.

Like I said, I don't agree with eugenics, controlled breeding or genocide, or whatever weird standards @guicrith would have, but some of societies standards for kindness and "human rights" are a bit fucked up. Because of my experience I can at least partly see where he's coming from. I would challenge you to question your own standards of morality as well.