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Children being sexually abused, given psychotropic drugs in ICE detention centers

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Thunder Hawk

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Xzi

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I wasn't referring to the detaining, I meant the specific instances you listed. All of them bring to mind other cases I've seen over the past few years regarding our prison system. If anything, the fact that our prison system affects millions as opposed to thousands in this case may make it the true low, although there is little point in arguing which is worse. My true point was that a lot of that abuse goes on every day in our normal prison system and nobody does a damn thing. Physical beatings, intentional denial of medical care, invasive searches, piss-poor treatment in general, all of it is practically endemic to our awful system.
There are definitely plenty of problems within our prison system, starting with the fact that we have more people incarcerated than any modern first-world country. However, one problem doesn't eclipse the next. We can't use a single negative thing about America to justify sliding into complete moral/ethical degeneracy. For example, genocide isn't okay just because we have the adversity of a prison industrial complex to deal with.

Reminder that the child mentioned in https://www.thenation.com/article/six-year-old-girl-sexually-abused-immigrant-detention-center/ was "sexually abused" by " another child being held at the same detention facility."
Just saying. It sounded like you were trying to say an adult did that.
You're correct. Unfortunately there seems to be a long pattern of this type of behavior from ICE officials. Google turns up a lot of results, here are just a few more:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/immigrant-children-allege-abuse-at-virginia-detention-center

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/21/us/u...en-detention-facilities-abuse-invs/index.html

http://www.endisolation.org/sexual-assault-in-immigration-detention/

Over 33,126 complaints about sexual abuse since 2010, only 570 have been investigated. These are just the cases we know about. Recently, ICE has been trying to destroy records on mistreatment of detainees:

https://www.newsweek.com/us-histori...ice-erasing-records-agencys-treatment-1049158
 
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Song of storms

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I'm going to write something that not many people might agree with, so let me clarify that I don't mind any race or any gender. I also believe in human rights.



Denied a pregnant minor medical attention when she reported pain, which preceded a stillbirth.
Boy who cried wolf. How many times can people there claim pain until people just stop caring?
Subjected a 16-year-old girl to a search in which they "forcefully spread her legs and touched her private parts so hard that she screamed."
Wouldn't have to do that if cartels weren't using a lot of these "innocent women" to smuggle drugs and weapons.
Left a 4-lb. premature baby and her minor mother in an overcrowded and dirty cell filled with sick people, against medical advice.
Shouldn't have come here illegally then. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Threw out a child's birth certificate and threatened him with sexual abuse by an adult male detainee.
I need more context about this.
Ran over a 17-year-old with a patrol vehicle and then punched him repeatedly.
Again, I need more context for this.

This being said, nothing like this would've happened if they weren't crossing the border illegally. But they still did. A lot of them are also used to smuggle illegal stuff too, so of course it was a matter of time before the law brought the heavy fist.

And before you lecture me about human rights, please make sure to think if you ever chipped in the war on drugs, on drugs' side. Because if you did, where were you when cartels were smuggling your drugs using kids?
These children are being treated like prisoners of war.
Maybe stop using them like pawns and we wouldn't need to put an end to this.

Did ICE forcibly remove these people from a place they had the right to live in? Did they travel down to Mexico to wreck havoc to innocent people? No. They caught people who knew very well what they were doing.

You need to understand that yes, not all illegals are criminal. But this exploit is allowing many criminals to swarm in, using a method that's still illegal. Look at what's happening in Europe with fights and murder inside refugee shelters getting less rare by the day. Borders exist to keep the scum out. You aren't scum? Then you have no reason not to enter the state legally.


Again, I don't mind any race or gender and this post would've been the same if canadian authorities were doing the same with illegals from the US.
 

Xzi

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Why is it now that people are outraged over these appalling situations when a Republican is in office? Let alone blame him for doing what the guy before him was doing.
Because he's not doing what the guy before him was doing. Families were not separated under Obama. The process of deportation and ICE under Obama wasn't much better, and he took some flack for that, but the mass detention of children and scamming their parents into signing their rights away is a Trump special that he has to own. Especially since it's clear now that they won't be able to reunite the majority of families.

"You crossed the border illegally" = "we have free reign to commit any illegal acts against you?" So much for all that freedom and liberty America is supposed to have. Ever jaywalked? Police now have the right to have sex with your children.
 
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Song of storms

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Well... Why not? Many asylum seekers demonstrate that they're willing to work for pay, so it's not even like we're just playing host to them. As a matter of fact, you could really say they're doing us a favor economically, considering they aren't actually entitled to tax-related benefits until they complete citizenship, in spite of contributing to the national GDP and in most cases even paying taxes as required
If you own a company, you can hire these people for less than any other US resident would accept. This lets businesses be scumbags and increase the unemployment for non-skilled labor, since everyone would hire illegal immigrants. And no, just because someone didn't go to college or isn't particularly skilled doesn't mean that they deserve to live on the streets.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Is this even news? Sounds like how our prison system treats US citizens everyday. If we can't even treat our own countrymen right, why would anyone expect us to treat other people well? If this deserves the guillotine, then we're going to have to be executing a lot of people. And not just people in this administration, but people from the previous one too and probably every one before that for decades.
Also keep in mind that rape in prison is often seen as a hilarious side-effect of being in prison.
 

Song of storms

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"You crossed the border illegally" = "we have free reign to commit any illegal acts against you?" So much for all that freedom and liberty America is supposed to have. Ever jaywalked? Police now have the right to have sex with your children.
Where have they abused children? You admitted that one was abused by another "child" that were illegally crossing the border. Also, I don't smuggle billions of dollars of drugs into the country by jaywalking.
 

Xzi

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If you own a company, you can hire these people for less than any other US resident would accept. This lets businesses be scumbags and increase the unemployment for non-skilled labor, since everyone would hire illegal immigrants. And no, just because someone didn't go to college or isn't particularly skilled doesn't mean that they deserve to live on the streets.
This is assuming there's a lot more interest in these positions from Americans than there actually is. We're going on several years of a labor shortage for farm work now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-01/u-s-farms-need-more-immigrant-workers

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

Where have they abused children? You admitted that one was abused by another "child" that were illegally crossing the border. Also, I don't smuggle billions of dollars of drugs into the country by jaywalking.
You obviously didn't read the links I posted in that same reply, which document a lot more cases of abuse, both sexual and non-sexual. I guess everything else including forcing potentially harmful drugs on children is just fine with you, though?
 
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Song of storms

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This is assuming there's a lot more interest in these positions from Americans than there actually is. We're going on several years of a labor shortage for farm work now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-01/u-s-farms-need-more-immigrant-workers

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
There's a shortage because people don't want to work their asses off in farms for a wage that barely sustains life costs. You can solve this by paying people what's fair, not by letting businesses take advantage of more people. In Germany, some refugees are being paid less than one Euro an hour. How can anybody compete with that? https://codastory.com/migration-cri...refugees-pays-one-euro-an-hour-sometimes-less
 

Viri

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There's a shortage because people don't want to work their asses off in farms for a wage that barely sustains life costs. You can solve this by paying people what's fair, not by letting businesses take advantage of more people. In Germany, some refugees are being paid less than one Euro an hour. How can anybody compete with that? https://codastory.com/migration-cri...refugees-pays-one-euro-an-hour-sometimes-less
Business need their wage slaves, and don't want to raise the wages to hire people in their own country, lol.
 

Xzi

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There's a shortage because people don't want to work their asses off in farms for a wage that barely sustains life costs. You can solve this by paying people what's fair, not by letting businesses take advantage of more people. In Germany, some refugees are being paid less than one Euro an hour. How can anybody compete with that? https://codastory.com/migration-cri...refugees-pays-one-euro-an-hour-sometimes-less
Minimum wage doesn't sustain life costs, but there are still plenty of people willing to take minimum wage jobs. It's as you said: farm work is hard labor, it's not going to be appealing to most Americans who can do a lot less strenuous work for the same amount of pay. Deporting people doesn't do anything to fix the massive wage disparity in the US.
 
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Song of storms

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Minimum wage doesn't sustain life costs, but there are still plenty of people willing to take minimum wage jobs. It's as you said: farm work is hard labor, it's not going to be appealing to most Americans who can do a lot less strenuous work for the same amount of pay.
It will be appealing to enough people when they start giving them a fair wage. With this logic, no one should be working in oil platforms or in Antarctica. But they do, because the pay is good enough and there is no shortage of any kind.

You obviously didn't read the links I posted in that same reply, which document a lot more cases of abuse, both sexual and non-sexual. I guess everything else including forcing potentially harmful drugs on children is just fine with you, though?
All I read were immigration protesters accusing them of sexual abuse. Where's the documentation?

Also, can you tell me why it's fine for people to say that you shouldn't go to certain parts of the country because of the high criminality rate (and to some extent teasing victims of murders for going there in the first place) while it's absolutely not ok for people to say that you shouldn't cross the border illegally because a lot of criminals do it and if you do it as well you will be treated like a criminal? And children won't be excluded because said criminals exploit them to smuggle stuff?
 

invaderyoyo

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I'm going to write something that not many people might agree with, so let me clarify that I don't mind any race or any gender. I also believe in human rights.




Boy who cried wolf. How many times can people there claim pain until people just stop caring?

Wouldn't have to do that if cartels weren't using a lot of these "innocent women" to smuggle drugs and weapons.

Shouldn't have come here illegally then. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I need more context about this.

Again, I need more context for this.

This being said, nothing like this would've happened if they weren't crossing the border illegally. But they still did. A lot of them are also used to smuggle illegal stuff too, so of course it was a matter of time before the law brought the heavy fist.

And before you lecture me about human rights, please make sure to think if you ever chipped in the war on drugs, on drugs' side. Because if you did, where were you when cartels were smuggling your drugs using kids?
Maybe stop using them like pawns and we wouldn't need to put an end to this.

Did ICE forcibly remove these people from a place they had the right to live in? Did they travel down to Mexico to wreck havoc to innocent people? No. They caught people who knew very well what they were doing.

You need to understand that yes, not all illegals are criminal. But this exploit is allowing many criminals to swarm in, using a method that's still illegal. Look at what's happening in Europe with fights and murder inside refugee shelters getting less rare by the day. Borders exist to keep the scum out. You aren't scum? Then you have no reason not to enter the state legally.


Again, I don't mind any race or gender and this post would've been the same if canadian authorities were doing the same with illegals from the US.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're basically saying these people had it coming and they deserved to be violated. Ridiculous.
 

Xzi

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It will be appealing to enough people when they start giving them a fair wage. With this logic, no one should be working in oil platforms or in Antarctica. But they do, because the pay is good enough and there is no shortage of any kind.
Risk of death or serious injury is a lot higher on an oil platform, of course the pay needs to be quite high to attract workers. The margins are obviously very different in farming, there's only so much they can pay someone picking fruit. Odds are that automation takes over more and more in that industry if the worker shortage continues.

All I read were immigration protesters accusing them of sexual abuse. Where's the documentation?
What documentation? ICE destroys evidence in these cases as best they can, as I already pointed out. It's their word against the detainees, and given their track record it's probably not the best idea to take the word of ICE at face value.

Also, can you tell me why it's fine for people to say that you shouldn't go to certain parts of the country because of the high criminality rate (and to some extent teasing victims of murders for going there in the first place) while it's absolutely not ok for people to say that you shouldn't cross the border illegally because a lot of criminals do it and if you do it as well you will be treated like a criminal? And children won't be excluded because said criminals exploit them to smuggle stuff?
Not sure how this is relevant. People who choose to go to dangerous areas of the country and then get murdered don't then have their children detained afterward. Even the murderer doesn't have his kids detained, because that wouldn't make any goddamn sense. Exact same deal with immigrating illegally, there's no reason for punishing children for the crimes of their parents.
 
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Song of storms

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Risk of death or serious injury is a lot higher on an oil platform
Antarctica isn't dangerous. Also, 27 people out of 100,000 die on oil platform on average. On farms, it's almost 25. That's not a big enough number to scare people away, don't you think?

What documentation? ICE destroys evidence in these cases as best they can, as I already pointed out. It's their word against the detainees, and given their track record it's probably not the best idea to take the word of ICE at face value.
Yeah, let me just think whom should I trust between their word or the word of people that have no reason not to lie to get illegally across the border. Let me also think who has the biggest history of being an actual criminal between the two. Hmmm....

Not sure how this is relevant. People who choose to go to dangerous areas of the country and then get murdered don't then have their children detained afterward. Even the murderer doesn't have his kids detained, because that wouldn't make any goddamn sense. Exact same deal with immigrating illegally, there's no reason for punishing children for the crimes of their parents.
If you go to those dangerous areas with your kids they maybe won't get detained, because they will be murdered as well. Do you see the point now?
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're basically saying these people had it coming and they deserved to be violated. Ridiculous.
Not what I wrote, but ok.
 

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