Microsoft brings more classic games to backwards compatibility, such as Morrowind, Conker, and more

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Microsoft will be bringing more original Xbox games to its Xbox One backwards compatibility program, with two new sets of releases set for later this month. Starting on April 17, Xbox One users will be able to play the following games:

  • Blinx: The Time Sweeper
  • Breakdown
  • Conker: Live and Reloaded
  • The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
  • Hunter: The Reckoning
  • Jade Empire
  • Panzer Dragoon Orta
  • SSX3
Following that, more games will become playable on the 26th of April, such as:

  • Destroy All Humans!
  • Full Spectrum Warrior
  • Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction
  • MX Unleashed
  • Panzer Elite Action: Fields of Glory
  • Star Wars Battlefront
  • Star Wars Battlefront II
  • Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
  • Star Wars Jedi Starfighter
  • Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
  • Star Wars Republic Commando
If you still own the discs to these games, you can pop them into your Xbox One system, and they will download to your console so that you can play them once more. If you don't, you can purchase them through the Microsoft Store for varying prices. If you have an Xbox One X, then you even get better enhanced graphics and framerate for these classic titles.

A handful of 360 games are also getting enhanced backwards compatibility updates for the Xbox One X--Star Wars: Force Unleashed, Sonic Generations, Portal 2, Red Dead Redemption, Gears of War 2, and Darksiders will run better than when they initially launched.

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I've been a Sony guy my whole life, but this is how BC should be done. Props to MS, never thought I'd say that.
 
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jahrs

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wooooot panzer dragoon orta ive been looking for a way to play this game for years now. finally i can murder my nostalgia filled memories with new not as good one as i realize how bad this game really is compared to what i remember.
 

brunocar

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That explains the Wii U and Wii. Or the 3DS, DS, and GBA. Oh, right, no. Yes, it'd cost more to support older systems, but over time that old hardware becomes ridiculously cheap. PS2 on a chip and XBox on a chip could have been a real thing. Instead we saw PS2 support dropped and XBox done through emulation. Would BC have made the systems more expensive? Almost certainly because they kept changing core CPUs. Drastically more expensive? Probably not. I mean, the PS3 kept PS1 support.



Actually that really depends on the setup. Peripherals being emulated in software while having 99% of the hardware there is the most likely circumstance. Code injection is of course another possibility. Really it's up to the hardware designer to figure out how much they want to support in real hardware and how. For instance, the Wii U dropping the Gamecube controller and memory card slots was a cost cutting thing that dropped Gamecube BC to save money. It wasn't drastically more expensive. Nintendo simply chose it wasn't worth it to them to support it. Personally, I think that was a bad move.

adressing your first point: the PS3 was ridiculously expensive at launch, thats why they switched to partial emulation for the second batch, which made playing PS2 games a nightmare, then they switched to full emulation for the slims and super slims and you hack those 2 models you'll have much better results than with partial emulation, so it was either shit backwards compat or a 500 dollar console with a cheaper alternative, its not economically sound, the PS1 support in the other hand is emulation, therefore every model has it, same reason why every PSP can play PS1 games if converted to eboot, emulation is simply more flexible, same thing happened to the wii, the DS and the GBA, later models removed retrocompatibility because games for that older system just werent being released anymore and the hardware got cheaper because of that, even when the gameboy micro, DSi and wii family still have the internal hardware needed, which was a side effect of building the system around retrocompatibility, infact, the 3DS suffers the most because if this, you know how many processors the 3DS needs to run 3DS and DS games? 4, 4 fucking processors, you have the 3DS's own arm11 CPU and its graphics chip, the DS's arm9 and the GBA's arm7 which is required for DS games to work properly, every single 3DS model has them because its simply impossible to run 3DS software without the DS (DSi actually) processor and DS games cant be run without the GBA processor, which means that all 3 ARM CPUs are needed, its ridiculous and its the reason why a GBA VC on 3DS was never a thing, nintendo simply didnt want to bother emulating a system that already has nearly the whole thing inside it.

regarding your second point: dropping the gamecube ports was understandable on the wii u, the console was a decade+ old, so supporting hardware that they cant profit of would be silly and the market they were aiming for was the casual market, opposite of the wii, the OG wii had them to appease developers worried about the sales of their gamecube games, not for gamers, same with the GBA compat on the DS.

thats why i want emulation, because in most cases its an effort for the gamers (the exception being the horrible xbox emulation on x360, some games work fine but most work like hot garbage) or at least to appease a fanbase rather than companies, thats why the PS2 classics on PS4, as much of a dick move as they are, are pretty solid if you have the extra cash for them thanks to the achivements and good video output.
 
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kuwanger

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@brunocar - The PS3 was ridiculously expensive because of the CELL processor. It also stayed pretty expensive for quite a while even after dropping PS2 BC. I'd have been fine with a PS2 emulator on the PS3, but clearly they didn't/wouldn't support 100% of games nor were they willing to go the Microsoft approach and test/tune games in batches as officially supported.

The 3DS/DS are great examples of where BC didn't make the prices crippling expensive, even with "4 processors". Meanwhile, the Wii was as much if not more for the casual market as the Wii U. Nintendo has just demonstrated they're perfectly willing to cut off BC to save a bit of money on hardware while giving them the ability to resell you games through their eShop. Regardless, the key point is that it's not inherently ridiculously expensive to support BC (maybe PS3 support would be).

Btw, AFAIK the decision to not support GBA on the 3DS was because they couldn't readily recreate the VC experience in hardware. Ie, the 3DS runs in a GBA mode and so they can't do save states, access the home menu, etc. Clearly they never intended to support the GBA, or they could have made the necessary changes in hardware. *shrug* It doesn't mean GBA mode doesn't work.
 

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Slowly over time and incompletely? Reading about how the XBox 360 pulled off software emulation of the original XBox was pretty amazing. I'll still take an original Xbox over an XBox One, though. Don't get me wrong: I like backwards compatibility. But, I wouldn't say this is remotely the right approach. The right approach is to have backwards compatibility in mind from the start and built it in to the hardware if necessary. The approach Microsoft has taken means that popular titles are supposed while unpopular ones tend not to be. The core of backwards compatibility is supporting even the games no one plays.

Naw man. The right approach is to not offer any option at all for people who happen to have already purchased these games. Release a water droplet every month or so and charge the customers again for the games they had already purchased before. =D
 
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brunocar

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@brunocar - The PS3 was ridiculously expensive because of the CELL processor. It also stayed pretty expensive for quite a while even after dropping PS2 BC. I'd have been fine with a PS2 emulator on the PS3, but clearly they didn't/wouldn't support 100% of games nor were they willing to go the Microsoft approach and test/tune games in batches as officially supported.

The 3DS/DS are great examples of where BC didn't make the prices crippling expensive, even with "4 processors". Meanwhile, the Wii was as much if not more for the casual market as the Wii U. Nintendo has just demonstrated they're perfectly willing to cut off BC to save a bit of money on hardware while giving them the ability to resell you games through their eShop. Regardless, the key point is that it's not inherently ridiculously expensive to support BC (maybe PS3 support would be).

Btw, AFAIK the decision to not support GBA on the 3DS was because they couldn't readily recreate the VC experience in hardware. Ie, the 3DS runs in a GBA mode and so they can't do save states, access the home menu, etc. Clearly they never intended to support the GBA, or they could have made the necessary changes in hardware. *shrug* It doesn't mean GBA mode doesn't work.
i'll start with your last point first because its been so debunked at this point that it hurts, emulation was already quite accurate on the PSP, those emulators were ported to the 3DS and worked even better, then for the people saying that "its not accurate enough" mGBA showed up, the latest stable build runs most games perfectly and at mostly full speed on n3DS as long as you have the GBA bios rather than using an emu bios, what im trying to say is that nintendo didnt make the effort, if they wanted they could have done something, they just didnt bother because it would have actually taken effort to implement unlike the outsourced emulators of the rest of the 3DS VC, VC on 3DS as a whole is a fucking mess, the emulation is accurate enough, but the lack of control options make action games on GB and GBC uncomfortable, every GBC or SGB enchanced game on OG GB doesnt take advantage of it even though playing those same roms on the GBC VC emulator with an injector makes it work just fine with those features, same with GBA enchanced GBC games. nintendo didnt give a single fuck about the 3DS VC, unlike the wii and wii U ones were they actually made an effort, even the gamegear VC on 3DS allows you to do stuff like rebind controls or change aspect ratios on the fly.

as for the rest, the launch price of the 3DS was what crippled its launch the most, it was the price of a PS3 but with graphical capabilities of a PSP with a dedicated graphics chip, im sure that sticking 2 and a half consoles didnt help the price problem and unlike the wii it got lucky, because retrocompat didnt need special hardware to interface with old games and accesories for the most part (which can be evaded on the wii anyways as nintendont proves, which proves my point that nintendo was pleasing companies developing stuff for the gamecube, both games and accessories, not their users, with the back compat Wii's)
 

kuwanger

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The right approach is to not offer any option at all for people who happen to have already purchased these games.

I think they call it an "XBox". Perhaps you've heard of it? :)

Release a water droplet every month or so and charge the customers again for the games they had already purchased before. =D

I presume you mean the XBox Live service cost? Yea, that's another way to make money if you can't resell them the games.

@brunocar - Saying that it'd work on the n3ds isn't saying much because the decision was made back before there was an n3ds. But you're right, Nintendo simply wasn't interested in supporting GBA on the 3DS so they didn't put the effort into it. That the simple, easy way was inconsistent enough as a VC gave them an easy way out. Out of curiosity, do you have any evidence that the o3ds can actually emulate anything close to 95% of GBA games well?

As for the price of the 3DS, you don't think the 3D screen had something to do with it? The 2DS is substantially cheaper and definitely that's a large part of it. Having yet one more CPU wasn't the reason for the massive price. The same can't be said as much with the PS2 because they had much less mainstream hardware--arm chips are everywhere and so getting suppliers would be a lot easier. Regardless, it doesn't explain away the fact that PS2 emulation on the PS3 is a thing and like Nintendo, Sony just didn't care to pursue it.

I won't deny that the Wii being a faster Gamecube or the Wii U being a faster Wii with more cores was mainly done to please developers. But the inclusion of ports for the Gamecube on the Wii was obviously for the user. Nintendo was clearly pushing developers to use the Wiimote, to the point that a lot of games don't work with the Gamecube controller--supporting multiple controls is more work and trying to map gyro and all the other new motion stuff to a Gamecube controller would either suck or it'd work well and prove the Wiimote a gimmick. Like you say, they decided to retire Gamecube support after a decade because they just saw it as a cost burden and not something the user would benefit from.

In the end, all companies look at the bottom line. They'll include BC fully if they see it'll benefit them in the short term but drop it when it's disadvantageous. They'll support VC emulation and eShops over users being able to play games out of a thrift shop. Their goal is only to lure you in enough to buy the new, $60 games. If BC in hardware costs an extra $50 and that prices them at $50 more than their closest competitor, they'll likely drop it. If doing it in software doesn't mean they can sell you the old games online, they'll probably not include it.

I get all the that. I just don't excuse it with claims it's too expensive. They've just decided it's not worth it to them. Fine. It's their business. They can do what they like.
 
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brunocar

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the thing that changes everything is that sony themselves had said that the reason the PS4 doesnt have retrocompat with PS3 games is because too few in their userbase would use it, or was it microsoft? i cant remember, but the point is, emulators for newer consoles are harder to develop, so the cost of what microsoft is doing on the xbox one is something really to be considered, they actually emulated whats basically a windows PC inside a windows PC that is running on a VM, its nuts and if you have the original disks you can do it for free, thats why i praise MS for what they are doing, its purely for the consumer, so much so that they are basically making it at a loss financially.

as for the 3DS price, not really, the 2DS is cheaper because it has one screen instead of 2, one of which is 3D, having to manufacture one piece instead of 2 for every console reduces costs significantly, not to mention that the 3DS over all has a ton less parts due to its brick design
 

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the thing that changes everything is that sony themselves had said that the reason the PS4 doesnt have retrocompat with PS3 games is because too few in their userbase would use it, or was it microsoft? i cant remember, but the point is, emulators for newer consoles are harder to develop, so the cost of what microsoft is doing on the xbox one is something really to be considered, they actually emulated whats basically a windows PC inside a windows PC that is running on a VM

There's definitely a large cost involved, I'll grant you that. But emulating the original XBox on the XBox One should actually be a lot easier precisely because they could probably use a VM and translate most the calls. Emulating an XBox 360 is a lot harder (although I'd imagine the GPU calls can be translated). But, yea, companies will gladly dump BC if they don't think enough users will use it.

its nuts and if you have the original disks you can do it for free, thats why i praise MS for what they are doing, its purely for the consumer, so much so that they are basically making it at a loss financially.

That and they can sell old titles online. Admittedly, that you can use original disks is something that "costs" them a sale, so it's nice that they're allowing that. I'd imagine that's more of a blowback from their original launch pushing so hard with the always online, locking down game discs, etc. Still, it's nice that they're doing it. Not that I'm going to get an XBox One or a PS4. Hell, I don't own a Wii U, PS3, or XBox 360 either. So, I'm really not their target audience anyways.

as for the 3DS price, not really, the 2DS is cheaper because it has one screen instead of 2, one of which is 3D, having to manufacture one piece instead of 2 for every console reduces costs significantly, not to mention that the 3DS over all has a ton less parts due to its brick design

Granted, there's a lot of things together than helped reduce the cost of the 2DS vs the 3DS. The point is, the 2DS still has all the same CPUs. Prices dropped across the board because eventually the hardware costs less to make. It helps to use outdated CPUs that aren't too outdated--sourcing 733Mhz Celerons would be hard for Microsoft, I think. ARM chips are cheap, though.

The really funny thing, actually, is that Nintendo could have pretty easily pulled a Sony. The NDS is one of the most popular selling gaming devices, along with the PS2. People who really wanted the old system could have readily got one. So, yea, I definitely understand Sony's thinking on the PS2. I think their claim for the PS3 BC with the PS4 though is just bullshit.
 
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It's about convenience, isn't it. Of course an OG Xbox will be better in that it can play the entire library, but backwards compatibility means we can use compatible games on consoles that we already have set up under our TV. It's a huge plus unless you want to dig out old consoles from your closet every time you want to play 1 specific game.
 

kuwanger

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Of course an OG Xbox will be better in that it can play the entire library, but backwards compatibility means we can use compatible games on consoles that we already have set up under our TV.

That I can understand. However, I've got a Sega Saturn, XBox, Wii, Gamecube (with Gameboy Player), N64, and PSTV all wired up because they each fail in some substantial way of including other games. So, yes, it'd be nice to just be able to replace one of those with something else to do both, it's just not there yet. SNES/NES era emulation? Yea. And don't get me wrong, if I already owned an XBox One I could see myself putting the XBox away for covering most the games I want to play. Personally, I'd probably rather just get a larger shelf. :)
 

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There's definitely a large cost involved, I'll grant you that. But emulating the original XBox on the XBox One should actually be a lot easier precisely because they could probably use a VM and translate most the calls. Emulating an XBox 360 is a lot harder (although I'd imagine the GPU calls can be translated). But, yea, companies will gladly dump BC if they don't think enough users will use it.



That and they can sell old titles online. Admittedly, that you can use original disks is something that "costs" them a sale, so it's nice that they're allowing that. I'd imagine that's more of a blowback from their original launch pushing so hard with the always online, locking down game discs, etc. Still, it's nice that they're doing it. Not that I'm going to get an XBox One or a PS4. Hell, I don't own a Wii U, PS3, or XBox 360 either. So, I'm really not their target audience anyways.



Granted, there's a lot of things together than helped reduce the cost of the 2DS vs the 3DS. The point is, the 2DS still has all the same CPUs. Prices dropped across the board because eventually the hardware costs less to make. It helps to use outdated CPUs that aren't too outdated--sourcing 733Mhz Celerons would be hard for Microsoft, I think. ARM chips are cheap, though.

The really funny thing, actually, is that Nintendo could have pretty easily pulled a Sony. The NDS is one of the most popular selling gaming devices, along with the PS2. People who really wanted the old system could have readily got one. So, yea, I definitely understand Sony's thinking on the PS2. I think their claim for the PS3 BC with the PS4 though is just bullshit.
1: the thing about this generations is that BC wasnt needed for devs and manufacturers to be happy, infact, it was the opposite, because porting games from PC to PS4/XBONE was so easy that it was easier to profit from ports than selling more copies of one version.
2: i also dont have a console from this generation, i went full PC (OK yeah not really, no PC can replace portables) as soon as they announced that PSgold would be required to play online on the PS4, but i gotta tell you, going back to old consoles to find out about games that before i couldnt get thanks to hacking is a recent joy i've been having, i infact just bought a back compat wii so im having that in mind while discussing this; regarding MS, you can tell that the new manager of the xbox brand really is trying to make the xbox one as PC gamer friendly as possible, its pretty clear too that MS wants to move away from consoles since PC is actually probably making them more money due to all the windows licenses people are buying to play on PC.
3: what nintendo did with the DS was weird, they claimed that it wasnt a replacement of the gameboy in case it went to shit, but it did so well that they stopped that narrative and straight up killed one of their best selling product lines, it really puts into perspective how revolutionary the DS was, nintendo has plans in case this "gimmick" didnt work, back compat was there so that they could keep selling them even if DS games didnt sell well
 

kuwanger

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1: the thing about this generations is that BC wasnt needed for devs and manufacturers to be happy, infact, it was the opposite, because porting games from PC to PS4/XBONE was so easy that it was easier to profit from ports than selling more copies of one version.

Finally Sony and MS realized they should sell a PC as a console--again for MS. :) To that end, the PS3/XBox 360 were sort of disasters in so far as it made it harder to port games over. Having said that, the whole point of having a console is primarily for exclusive games, not merely for getting PC ports. Which leads to...

its pretty clear too that MS wants to move away from consoles since PC is actually probably making them more money due to all the windows licenses people are buying to play on PC.

The thing is, MS has been trying to do this since the early 90s: make the PC a viable alternative to consoles. Then they tried to diversify into the gaming console market because they hit a wall with market saturation in the PC realm--people slowed down at buying new PCs. Now that PCs are "dying"--really slowing down on buying new PCs--they want to drive people back to the PC to try to shore up their cash cow. Uh, yea... Honestly, I don't think MS really knows what it wants. Either that or like Sony, one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.

what nintendo did with the DS was weird, they claimed that it wasnt a replacement of the gameboy in case it went to shit, but it did so well that they stopped that narrative and straight up killed one of their best selling product lines, it really puts into perspective how revolutionary the DS was, nintendo has plans in case this "gimmick" didnt work, back compat was there so that they could keep selling them even if DS games didnt sell well

Same thing with the Switch. Nintendo has a history of constantly pushing new gimmicks to really sell a new console line. The NES had Gyromite and the Zapper (not really revolutionary but trying to draw in the Arcade crowd). SNES really didn't push anything new. Gameboys tried to push linking together a lot. The DS had dual screen. Gamecube was going to have a 3D screen but that turned out to be too expensive so they dropped it. Instead, they pushed for GBA/GC linking. Wiimote. Then Wii U Gamepad. A lot of it's very miss with a few substantial hits.

But, yea, I agree. Nintendo always tries to make hardware with the goal that even at worst case scenario they can drop support and self off their inventory with people buying it for <insert X reason> so they won't take a massive loss. Doesn't hurt that they make their own exclusive games which are popular. *shrug*
 

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Here's the thing. The backwards compatibility on the One is taking advantage of the One's hardware. The games look noticeably better and perform at higher standards, as well. These games they're slowly adding are being tested, one by one, before being finalized.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Maybe the better hardware will all but kill the loading times? :O
If it's stored on the HDD then yes. I know this from having a modded OG xbox and loading my games from the HDD. Loading times were non existent. Same goes for my modded ps2. And for the PS1 there's psio that annihilates loading times. Oh how different things would've been if we hadn't used slowass cds and dvds back then...
 

mightymuffy

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Does the XBox One offer much faster load times for XBox games? Are they comparable to what you'd get on your softmodded XBox internal HDD? How do the visuals compare to 480p?
Yes, better and yes... 4x resolution boost on One/S and 9x on X, with at least 2x loading speed increase, better still on X... if you're gonna be overly harsh as you say, google these things first ;)
 

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