Just seen the FreeBSD code of conduct

[wolfmankurd]

Seems a bit crazy ironically looks like it's intended to harrass and systematically oppress white straight men.

Here's a link.

For those that don't know FreeBSD is an operating system frequently used in commercial projects who want a more lenient license than GPLv2 and 3 (otherwise they could use GNU + Linux). Nintendo uses FreeBSD for the Switch and Sony is known to favour it using it in it's PS3 (in part along with netBSD), PS Vita and for the PS4. I believe Mac OS X also borrows heavily from FreeBSD via Darwin.

 

[Ryccardo]

Is జ్ఞ ‌ా a "dead or rejected name"?

 

[Deleted User]

DUDE
PRONOUNS
LMAO

Anybody who feels the need to put their "pronouns" or their anything that isn't a name and what they code with in development or life should be banished. The whims of having a free society i guess.

 

[wolfmankurd]

Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.

Is what got me. Probably the same people who are freaking out that Cancer Research UK has an advert explaining that Obesity is the second biggest cause of preventable cancer.

 

[Veho]

Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.

Is what got me. Probably the same people who are freaking out that Cancer Research UK has an advert explaining that Obesity is the second biggest cause of preventable cancer.

On the other hand it stops the aggressive preachy kind vegans from flooding the interaction with propaganda and spam, or assaulting others for "murder" for eating meat. And the "practices regarding parenting" bit prevents the aggressive anti-vaccination crowd from preaching their bullshit or for attacking people who vaccinate children.
But most importantly it prevents (or hopes to prevent) pointless idiotic bickering that bringing up such topic always, always devolves into.

I see nothing on this list that would prevent anyone from having a normal conversation.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic.

 

[wolfmankurd]

On the other hand it stops the aggressive preachy kind vegans from flooding the interaction with propaganda and spam, or assaulting others for "murder" for eating meat. And the "practices regarding parenting" bit prevents the aggressive anti-vaccination crowd from preaching their bullshit or for attacking people who vaccinate children.
But most importantly it prevents (or hopes to prevent) pointless idiotic bickering that bringing up such topic always, always devolves into.

I see nothing on this list that would prevent anyone from having a normal conversation.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic.

I think you're missing the point. Wording is just as important as content when making rules.

Famously there was a poster at a near by river where I live that said "Polish must not take fish", now the content is fine, because no one may take fish. But the wording isn't.

The wording of this coc is laughably bad. If anything it's purposefully intended to drive a wedge between the community. Between those like Benno Rice who openly want to disadvantage "white, heterosexual males" and those that think that that is "systematic oppression".

 

[sarkwalvein]

I wasn't able to find anything horribly worded or offending in there (perhaps because TL;DR /s), could you please enlighten me with actual examples?

 

[wolfmankurd]

I wasn't able to find anything horribly worded or offending in there (perhaps because TL;DR /s), could you please enlighten me with actual examples?

Prime example is the opening line:

Comments that reinforce systemic oppression

First this assumes systematic oppression which is a political topic. Secondly that phrase implies that there are people who are not oppressed and are the oppressors. Benno Rice confirmed this when he said to the developers@ mailing list that the CoC is targeting "white heterosexual males".

To the more subtle placing concepts like "misgendering" and "dead" names at the top of a list above. Threats of violence and physical attacks.

The entire thing is pushing a political agenda.

I'd suggest you read the leaked mailbox (which has been confirmed as real by people in the mailing list) where even the core team found it unpalatable.

You might struggle to find it though, because ALL and ANY discussion of the CoC is being heavily censored (deleted messages, banned user) from the forums and subreddit as it happens...

 

[Flame]

i am all for equal opportunities....

be careful @wolfmankurd you are on GBAtemp and this is a very much a Linux zone, we have some die hard Linux users on here.

 

[wolfmankurd]

i am all for equal opportunities....

be careful @wolfmankurd you are on GBAtemp and this is a very much a Linux zone, we have some die hard Linux users on here.

Nearly forgot that!

If people really fail to see the issue with the FreeBSD CoC, compare it to the Debian CoC, the KDE CoC, the Rust CoC or even the TrueOS RoC.

Weird how everyone accepts that it's better to re-use and share licenses like the GPL, MIT or Apache. Written and revised by real experts...

While the codes of conducts I have linked above are clearly about protecting the community and seeding harmony the FreeBSD one is entirely about dividing the community.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Prime example is the opening line:



First this assumes systematic oppression which is a political topic. Secondly that phrase implies that there are people who are not oppressed and are the oppressors. Benno Rice confirmed this when he said to the developers@ mailing list that the CoC is targeting "white heterosexual males".

To the more subtle placing concepts like "misgendering" and "dead" names at the top of a list above. Threats of violence and physical attacks.

The entire thing is pushing a political agenda.

I'd suggest you read the leaked mailbox (which has been confirmed as real by people in the mailing list) where even the core team found it unpalatable.

You might struggle to find it though, because ALL and ANY discussion of the CoC is being heavily censored (deleted messages, banned user) from the forums and subreddit as it happens...

Hmmm... I read the whole document finally and I still don't find it offending, but I am missing the "leaked mailbox", probably that is determinant here.

I find the "systematic oppression" quite relevant in cases as e.g. related to sexism, specially if you consider that FreeBSD transcends the borders of the "western world".

PS: But the CoC document alone is alright for me.

 

[wolfmankurd]

Hmmm... I read the whole document finally and I still don't find it offending, but I am missing the "leaked mailbox", probably that is determinant here.

I find the "systematic oppression" quite relevant in cases as e.g. related to sexism, specially if you consider that FreeBSD transcends the borders of the "western world".

PS: But the CoC document alone is alright for me.

I linked to a few other examples of CoC, if the FreeBSD one is the first one you've seen maybe it's hard to see why there is so much umbrage. Notice the radically different language. The fact that while all the others were embraced and are functionally the same, the FreeBSD one has divided even developers@ and had several committers leave.

It's not what you say it's how you say it.

 

[sarkwalvein]

You're probably right, but I need to do some reading to be really sure of that.

 

[dAVID_]

gender pronouns... you really can't avoid looking like an idiot when you use them.

 

[Lucar]

Nintendo uses FreeBSD for the Switch

Seems a bit crazy ironically looks like it's intended to harrass and systematically oppress white straight men.

I don't see it. Every point on that page asks for fair treatment of everyone, no matter what. Not "oh white people suck let's hate them". There's literally nothing there to state that.

If people really fail to see the issue with the FreeBSD CoC, compare it to the Debian CoC, the KDE CoC, the Rust CoC or even the TrueOS RoC.

The CoC's really don't look that different? At least, the Debian and FreeBSD ones don't. The FreeBSD one makes it very clear what harassment is according to them, which I honestly think is a good thing, since it leaves no grey area.

Weird how everyone accepts that it's better to re-use and share licenses like the GPL, MIT or Apache. Written and revised by real experts...

The CoC's for the projects you linked have nothing about the software licences of which the projects are licenced under, so... Not sure what you're referring to.

While the codes of conducts I have linked above are clearly about protecting the community and seeding harmony the FreeBSD one is entirely about dividing the community.

How? They simply state more on what they expect from their community and what they find to be harassment. The fact that they have to put a nineteen bullet point list of things that are considered harassment in their CoC maybe says something about how their community has interacted in the past.

It's not what you say it's how you say it.

Again, they've really said the same things everyone else has, just elaborated on it.

 

[jurassicplayer]

• Physical contact and simulated physical contact (e.g., textual descriptions like "*hug*" or "*backrub*") without consent or after a request to stop.

There you go. Dun fukn touch me. Btw this is old news :/

-Edit-
Forgot to mention, but this may have been a source for where the FreeBSD CoC came from:
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Community_anti-harassment/Policy

 

[barronwaffles]

Just use openbsd if inane shit like this upsets you.

 

[wolfmankurd]

I don't see it. Every point on that page asks for fair treatment of everyone, no matter what. Not "oh white people suck let's hate them". There's literally nothing there to state that.



The CoC's really don't look that different? At least, the Debian and FreeBSD ones don't. The FreeBSD one makes it very clear what harassment is according to them, which I honestly think is a good thing, since it leaves no grey area.



The CoC's for the projects you linked have nothing about the software licences of which the projects are licenced under, so... Not sure what you're referring to.




Again, they've really said the same things everyone else has, just elaborated on it.

Benno Rice the single core team member on the coc committee said it was to target white heterosexual males. I understand why you might be so blind or naive to not see that in the CoC itself, but surely an admission by the sole core member in the committee which wrote the CoC makes it clear?

If we can't agree on that I don't think there is any value in continuing this discussion.

How? They simply state more on what they expect from their community and what they find to be harassment. The fact that they have to put a nineteen bullet point list of things that are considered harassment in their CoC maybe says something about how their community has interacted in the past.

You are completely and utterly wrong here. Those points are copied almost verbatim from the Geek Feminist Wiki.

Your entire post shows the issue with this CoC. You clearly know nothing of the background of fbsd or the CoC yet you have drawn a line and put your self on one side of it and me on the other. This CoC is designed to fracture a community not unite it.

Documents like the CoC are designed to make you think that if I don't support it must be because I'm homophobic or sexist. This is the same mentality that thinks if I support freedom of speech I must be a Nazi. It's a fallacy and the fact that people fall for it, just like you have, is why it is toxic.