This morning I was watching The Wright Stuff on British breakfast television, a daily panel show featuring current news affairs, when I noticed the next topic to be discussed was about a 'computer game' called Detroit Become Human:

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Detroit: Become Human is the latest game to come from creator David Cage, a 2018 Sony PlayStation 4 exclusive title, that featured a scene of potential domestic child abuse when a new trailer aired at Sony's Paris Game's Week 2017 Conference. You can see the full trailer here:

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David Cage is no stranger to controversial subjects in his games. I've played Fahrenheit and also Heavy Rain and both of these games feature murder, the latter with a serial killer who kidnaps a child. So why is this new game suddenly on daytime breakfast TV? Because it's controversial, and without the controversial, off-screen scene, the game wouldn't have appeared on all of the mainstream gaming sites. So we all saw this a month ago, but only now is the printed press and big media catching onto it, because it's an easy target for a headline.

I'm no expert on what Detroit: Become Human is, but I gather from related media that it's a story-driven game with a heavy narrative, much like all of Cage's previous works. You play as an android and throughout the game are presented with game-changing decisions, but do you live through the story as an android would, or do you make the android 'Become Human' by making morally correct decisions as a human would, breaking the android's protocol, kind of I, Roboty. In theory, you could finish the game without even seeing this scene play out the wrong way. Choices given to the player are designed in such a way as to spark some kind of emotion from them. That is what this type of game is all about.

I've watched TWS on TV for many years, but today, with a headline like 'Ban Child Abuse Computer Game?' on the TV, I felt compelled to call the show and try and advocate as to why a scene like this in a video game isn't a reason to ban it. To my surprise, I got through!

Here is the clip of the entire discussion on the show today. If you want to skip forward to my call, I am caller number 1 at 05:50:

Mirror (UK):
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Before the call I had plenty to say, but under pressure, live on air, with only a minute to talk, I don't think I got my point across as well as I could have, but it did make me think about how non-gamers perceive people who do enjoy experiencing and playing video games. I also wanted to tell Matthew (the host) to watch The Last of Us Part II trailer that was featured at the same gaming show in Paris, and is also a Sony exclusive title. I think that trailer has way more for the non-gaming masses to complain about, than the scenes from Detroit: Become Human. I've also been obliterating hundreds of Nazis with my Schockhammer in Wolfenstein 2 recently, literally blasting them into smithereens, but I've not seen that discussed on TV.

Obviously, this is a touchy subject matter, but in my eyes, it is no different than watching a movie or reading a book. The movie Sleepers immediately came to mind when I was trying to think of comparisons from other media, a 1996 film featuring some of hollywood's top stars suffering from child abuse. Why is that ok, but Detroit isn't?

It makes no sense.


Detroit: Become Human is expected to release worldwide in 2018.

Detroit: Become Human Official Site

 

[MartinDocNewland]

I'm guessing by the two comments above that you haven't. Well, I have and it still effects me to this day (28 years, happened when I was 10) Its not a nice feeling at all and I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enermy.

Stating the obvious that we don't live in a utopia is not a very good answer or answering a question with a question.

Video games is not the right way to highlight the fact that child abuse happens, its simply the wrong medium to do so. Video games are meant to be fun and enjoyable.

I could go on about how its wrong but i feel not many people here would understand

 

[Deleted-355425]

The game doesn't seem to glorify abuse so i dont think its an issue if its an 18 rated game.

 

[kumikochan]

And making a video game about this doesn't glorify abuse or make it more of an issue? What the hell kind of dumbass developer would do this?

No it does not, then all movies, songs and books would do the same but instead it opens up your eyes and is not Sugarcoating it. It's telling you right in your face '' this is abuse and this should never be allowed'' Where is the game glorifying abuse ? All i can see it does is spread awereness and making you emotionally attached and feel something and make you think about stuff like that realizing this happens every single day !! The world is not a fucking utopia where stuff like this doesn't happen. I thank games like these doing stuff like this and the sooner we accept the darkness within, the sooner we can do something about it instead of Always trying to sugarcoat it and run away from it like it doesn't happen at all

 

[rileysrjay]

I've really been looking forward to this game, so I really hope that it doesn't get censored because of this. I'm fine with this scene being in the game, as it's a good way to expose people and open their eyes to terrible stuff such as child abuse that happens every day. As said earlier in this thread, we sure don't live in Utopia.

 

[KingVamp]

And making a video game (movie/tv/book/etc) about this doesn't glorify abuse or make it more of an issue? What the hell kind of dumbass developer would do this?

Does the Saw series and Game of Thrones/Walking Dead "glorify" abuse?

 

[MartinDocNewland]

I've really been looking forward to this game, so I really hope that it doesn't get censored because of this. I'm fine with this scene being in the game, as it's a good way to expose people and open their eyes to terrible stuff such as child abuse that happens every day. As said earlier in this thread, we sure don't live in Utopia.

Don't you think schools would be a better way to teach this?

 

[spotanjo3]

Oh boy.. not again. No wonder I am embarrassing to be human being sometimes. Deal with it. The corruption is everywhere anyway. MONEY!

 

[Yepi69]

Its... just... a... game.
Really, fuck this current generation of pussies and whiners.

 

[MartinDocNewland]

I see dumb people

 

[rileysrjay]

Don't you think schools would be a better way to teach this?

That's an option I suppose, do schools today even teach about child abuse? TBH All I see coming out of that is parents being petrified and complaining that the school would dare to show their child something as terrible as child abuse. I think it's good to expose this kind of stuff in movies, books, and even the occasional video game. They're great at being able to go into detail about how terrible stuff like child abuse is.

 

[kuwanger]

I'm guessing by the two comments above that you haven't. Well, I have and it still effects me to this day (28 years, happened when I was 10) Its not a nice feeling at all and I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enermy.

Stating the obvious that we don't live in a utopia is not a very good answer or answering a question with a question.

Nor is bringing up your personal horrible experience. The only "good answer" would be a means to undo the damage. That's impossible, though.

Video games is not the right way to highlight the fact that child abuse happens, its simply the wrong medium to do so. Video games are meant to be fun and enjoyable.

Perhaps that's your feeling about what video games are. No doubt that's a large part of why the Hays Code was invented for films. That doesn't means it's right. It's also pretty absurd to think one can maintain the innocence of video games at this late stage. Honestly, though, it's hard to argue there's any "right way" when it comes to child abuse. That reduction is precisely why kumikochan's point is so relevant.

It's why I made the question because the absurdity of the logic that child abusers had every right to call for the game to not be banned is as absurd as those absurd to demand the game be banned. Or to convert the discussion into one that only the abused have any say is almost calling for people to be abused to have a voice in game bans. Yet the whole point of such a game is precisely that people who aren't abusers and weren't abused to taste but a minuscule part of the horror of it precisely to be even more polarized against it.

I honestly can't understand why you'd be against others being exposed to something that will only reduce child abuse, except that "Video games are meant to be fun and enjoyable" makes me wonder if you used video games as an escape from your abuse and don't want it tainted by the reality you suffered. If that is so, I feel sorry that you feel that way, but it doesn't change my belief that stopping more abuse is paramount.

Does the Saw series and Game of Thrones/Walking Dead "glorify" abuse?

Yes (although a lot less so with Walking Dead). Saw and Game of Thrones are gore/sex porn. That's perfectly fine.

 

[MartinDocNewland]

That's an option I suppose, do schools today even teach about child abuse? TBH All I see coming out of that is parents being petrified and complaining that the school would dare to show their child something as terrible as child abuse. I think it's good to expose this kind of stuff in movies, books, and even the occasional video game. They're great at being able to go into detail about how terrible stuff like child abuse is.

True, you can't please everyone at the same time. That is a fact. And as this post shows everyone has an opinion but most the people here don't know what its like to be abused so wouldn't understand.

I play video games to escape, I wouldn't want to play a game where it reminded me of the horrors I went though.

As an abuse victim I will have my opinion on this matter, won't be seen by many but people who have gone thought it like myself would understand

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

 

[Kioku]

I'm guessing by the two comments above that you haven't. Well, I have and it still effects me to this day (28 years, happened when I was 10) Its not a nice feeling at all and I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enermy.

Stating the obvious that we don't live in a utopia is not a very good answer or answering a question with a question.

Video games is not the right way to highlight the fact that child abuse happens, its simply the wrong medium to do so. Video games are meant to be fun and enjoyable.

I could go on about how its wrong but i feel not many people here would understand

I'm sorry you had those experiences.. But that argument can be tied to movies as well. It's not a valid reason to ban it. I'm sorry, but it's not.

You have the option to avoid it completely.

 

[Navonod]

If you're not okay with it then don't buy it. It's not that hard people.

 

[MartinDocNewland]

Nor is bringing up your personal horrible experience. The only "good answer" would be a means to undo the damage. That's impossible, though.



Perhaps that's your feeling about what video games are. No doubt that's a large part of why the Hays Code was invented for films. That doesn't means it's right. It's also pretty absurd to think one can maintain the innocence of video games at this late stage. Honestly, though, it's hard to argue there's any "right way" when it comes to child abuse. That reduction is precisely why kumikochan's point is so relevant.

It's why I made the question because the absurdity of the logic that child abusers had every right to call for the game to not be banned is as absurd as those absurd to demand the game be banned. Or to convert the discussion into one that only the abused have any say is almost calling for people to be abused to have a voice in game bans. Yet the whole point of such a game is precisely that people who aren't abusers and weren't abused to taste but a minuscule part of the horror of it precisely to be even more polarized against it.

I honestly can't understand why you'd be against others being exposed to something that will only reduce child abuse, except that "Video games are meant to be fun and enjoyable" makes me wonder if you used video games as an escape from your abuse and don't want it tainted by the reality you suffered. If that is so, I feel sorry that you feel that way, but it doesn't change my belief that stopping more abuse is paramount.



Yes (although a lot less so with Walking Dead). Saw and Game of Thrones are gore/sex porn. That's perfectly fine.

Yes stopping more abuse from happening is paramount but using video games with an age rating of 18/M where kids are not alowed to play the game in the first place is right? Who is learning what?

I choose to highlight that I'm a victim to try and make people understand mine and other victims point of view.

Thanks for your opinion, how ever wrong it is. At least I got the balls to say something unlike you who doesn't understand what ts like and doesn't even have the balls to show what country you are from

 

[rileysrjay]

True, you can't please everyone at the same time. That is a fact. And as this post shows everyone has an opinion but most the people here don't know what its like to be abused so wouldn't understand.

I play video games to escape, I wouldn't want to play a game where it reminded me of the horrors I went though.

As an abuse victim I will have my opinion on this matter, won't be seen by many but people who have gone thought it like myself would understand

My best advice to a person in your situation is to ignore games that might remind you of what happened (that's what the esrb rating is for, to mark that kind of stuff). But to flat out not include this kind of stuff in movies, books, and video games seems silly to me. Like I said earlier, All three of these can do a great job at showing and educating people about this kind of stuff and remind them of it. You can't end child abuse and whatnot without raising awareness about it.

 

[kumikochan]

True, you can't please everyone at the same time. That is a fact. And as this post shows everyone has an opinion but most the people here don't know what its like to be abused so wouldn't understand.

I play video games to escape, I wouldn't want to play a game where it reminded me of the horrors I went though.

As an abuse victim I will have my opinion on this matter, won't be seen by many but people who have gone thought it like myself would understand

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ur bringing up your own personal experience. But everybody carries a certain weight, some less then others and some more. I've had some personal experiences wich i'm not gonna talk about and i've come across them a couple of times in games. Did i mind ? No, not at all. Did i feel emotional ? Yes i did and for me that helps and i felt a lot more a connection with that character then any other person and i found that amazing. In the end my experience is my experience and yours is yours. It makes you stronger as a person if you learn to leave it behind. I get that sometimes leaving something behind is hard but if you do well you'll appreciate that a lot more. In the end i'm glad for experiences that i had be it bad or good and even coming across them in games. It makes other people realise a bit more what you went through and you should thank people for that. It's like you say '' we don't get it ! But games, movies, stories to be told let us in a bit more and get to see it a bit more from your viewpoint''. I think that is a beautiful thing letting people experience it a bit and letting them see what it is so that they do understand how horrible it was what happened to you because if you don't people will just laugh it off like it ain't a big deal while it is ! I'm glad that there are stories like these that you get to understand a little bit more what people went through. i'm thankful for that

 

[DarthDub]

It's a game that let's you decide what choices you make. It's supposed to make you feel emotions when playing it. Banning negates the purpose of showing how bad child abuse really is. But of course the UK likes to ignore major issues going on.

 

[Axido]

I've played Farenhieght...

That part made me crack up with laughter.
Dude, it's called Fahrenheit.

 

[petethepug]

*sigh* 2017 keeps getting weirder and weirder doesn't it,

I don't have a problem with the game (In a marketing way no I don't have problems, but I wouldn't pick it up buy it & play it just for the hell of it) I think its these real subjects in video games that can sometimes lead to just confusing ideas or great ones and I think this (in my opinion) is just leaning towards "Um. What is this?" Kind of, but then again I never enjoyed games like Silent Hill anyways so I don't know how the final product is going to turn out. Hopefully the game turns out successful though, I wouldn't be picking this up though.