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'Loot Boxes' Declared Gambling by Belgium GC & Hawaii HoR, Both Seek Bans in Europe and the US

Loot_Box.jpg


In a very sudden development on the hot-button topic of 'loot boxes' and gambling in video games, the Belgium Gaming Commission has completed their investigation on the matter and have concluded that in-game 'loot boxes' are a form of gambling, and will likely be banned in Belgium. This could entail hundreds of thousands of Euros in fines towards Electronic Arts and other offending companies, as well as a ban on sales of games with loot boxes until companies acquire a gambling license or remove the feature from their games. What's more, Belgium is seeking to classify loot boxes as gambling across the entirety of Europe. Currently, the Dutch Gambling Authority has launched a similar investigation.

The Belgium Gaming Commission's statement roughly read, "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling." Belgium's Minister of Justice also chimed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child."

Following quickly after, and in a highly unexpected move, Hawaii House of Representatives rep. Chris Lee (D) held a press conference where he announced that the State of Hawaii would be introducing legislation to curb the "predatory behavior" of companies like Electronic Arts. He explicitly mentions Battlefront 2, calling it a "Star Wars-themed online casino, designed to lure kids into spending money." Highlights from that press conference can be seen here:



Lee said that new legislation in the coming year will target predatory microtransaction practices and that Hawaii would be speaking with other states to introduce similar legislation elsewhere in the United States. Parents also took the podium at the press conference to express their own concerns about loot boxes and microtransactions. Lee later wrote a Reddit post explaining the announcement, which can be read in its entirety by following this link. In the post, he calls on US citizens to contact their state legislatures and demand action against predatory microtransaction practices in the gaming industry.

The speed at which regulatory bodies are reacting to the loot box controversy is astounding. These developments come in the wake of EA's botched microtransaction scheme in Star Wars: Battlefront II that led to a Reddit post by an EA representative becoming the most downvoted comment in the website's history, prompting Disney to intervene and garnering mainstream media coverage on popular news outlets like CNN. This spells trouble not just for EA, but for all major publishers, including Activision-Blizzard, Ubisoft, 2K Games, and any other company engaging in 'loot box' practices and predatory microtransaction schemes.

Oh, how the tides turn.

:arrow: Source 1
:arrow: Source 2
:arrow: Source 3
:arrow: Source 4
 
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fluffykiwi

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The games companies just need to switch to telling gamers what the contents of the loot box will be to get around the gambling accusations. They will still be able to target the game's addicts, just not so brazenly taking their money and not delivering anything they want to buy in the "random" lootbox, forcing multiple purchases on those desperate for certain items.

They are not random when the company can set the odds on certain contents. Paying cash only for a chance to get a desired item is gambling, but paying cash for a specific item is a sale.

I personally do not even want to see microtransactions within games, even for cosmetic items, although most argue this is acceptable to generate additional revenue for the producers. I feel this targets vulnerable people who are addicted to certain games.

When you read about people spending hundreds of dollars in a game like Marvel Heroes, within a few months of the console version becoming available, I find it hard to avoid feeling that person is an addict. Nevermind the shitstorm that the game closing and them ending up with nothing produces.

I personally have a tendency to want to collect everything within games I love. Luckily I'm now mature enough now not to be spending money within games for additional digital content.
In the past I've had my own problems with my own addictive tendencies
 
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chartube12

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this thread is funny! HA! Alot of people in this thread over the summer said they rather have loot boxes from EA then pay for non-cosmetic multiplayer dlc. Now you are bitching about how unfair the loot boxes are. Ha. Hypocrites, hypocrites everywhere. You were warned by supporting loot boxes, eventually they would screw you over. I don't feel sorry for any adults who willingly have purchased more then 50 bucks on loot boxes or digital cash to buy loot boxes.
 

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this thread is funny! HA! Alot of people in this thread over the summer said they rather have loot boxes from EA then pay for non-cosmetic multiplayer dlc. Now you are bitching about how unfair the loot boxes are. Ha. Hypocrites, hypocrites everywhere. You were warned by supporting loot boxes, eventually they would screw you over. I don't feel sorry for any adults who willingly have purchased more then 50 bucks on loot boxes or digital cash to buy loot boxes.
Um... The discussion started over them being banned in some areas, or very close to.... not because anyone was "bitching." Not to mention, trying to generalize this into "everyone." I've always thought loot boxes were crap, where do I fit into your little equation? The people you are talking about only make up a small percentage.
 

RedBlueGreen

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Or they should simply rethink their budget and stop trying to scam people. Not that I think they aren't getting money back from just the games alone.
If you're already told the prize is random it's not a scam. You're not being misled in any way. If there aren't any microtransactions then we'll just get more casual shit like candy crush amd city building games. While summoning and paying for random equipment is gimmicky you're not forced to do it and you're already told it's random. If we don't have microtransactions any decent mobile games will be the $20+ Square Enix ports and games.
I totally understand why they do that, but in this case trading card games are also gambling. Hell, even Candy Crush could be gambling. The problem is how those loot boxes are implemented.

IMHO, to be considered as gambling, you need a money to money transaction. Let me explain : when you go to a casino, you put money to make more money. In a game you put money to get random items.

Exactly. If you're trying to define gambling as getting something for being luck based then you have to include things like trading card games and raffles. Hell, the cards are prizes would have actual value making them closer to gambling than a loot box is. There's also the fact that they're completely optional and you don't have to let your kids buy them. If they require a credit card then they're probably intended for adults or people with permission from parents to buy them. So you're not protecting kids who can't buy them without permission to begin with.
 
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KingVamp

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If you're already told the prize is random it's not a scam. You're not being misled in any way. If there aren't any microtransactions then we'll just get more casual shit like candy crush amd city building games. While summoning and paying for random equipment is gimmicky you're not forced to do it and you're already told it's random. If we don't have microtransactions any decent mobile games will be the $20+ Square Enix ports and games.
EA probably thought the same thing, now look at the trouble they have now. Besides, not everyone follows gaming like this. Poor business practices and people are trying to defend them. Wasn't even talking about mobile. Talking about these bigger games, especially these $60, that are being even more exploitive than mobile games themselves.
 

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Good. It's pathetic how representations of gambling (e.g. Game Corners in Pokémon) are deemed unsuitable to be in video games while what are effectively actual gambling practices that are fuelled by nothing but greed and designed to get people addicted are acceptable.
 
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SG854

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I can only imagine their lawyers finally working their asses off for their salaries, and their overworked lobbyists sucking VIPs' dicks all around, I wonder if they will achieve anything.
The lawyers that work for corporations say they feel like prostitutes. Lawyers are basically trained to separate their feelings from the position their client wants to take, meaning your morals go out the window for the sake of your job. It works well for you as a lawyer career wise, but horrible as a moral human being. Theres a reason alcoholism is twice as high for lawyers than the general population.

41% of lawyers say they would choose a different career if they were given a chance to do it all over again. On top of the $80,000 debt from law school, you have people going into corporate law rather than public service law because it pays more. The reason is because if someone ever wants to get married and have kids than they would need the higher salary from getting into corporate law. And rather than changing their careers they hate they change their personalities so they can continue to work the job that pays them more. Lawyers can work up to 75 to 90 hours a week just to earn those higher salaries. So you have lawyers that suffer from chest pains, arthritis, hypertension, and insomnia in their 30's. Thus the alcoholism problem.
 
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Taleweaver said:
Finally: you claim that putting lootboxes under the same regulations as gambling somehow denies responsibilities from the gamers (and parents).

No, I didn't claim that. I claimed that conveniently blaming game developers rather than thinking "huh, maybe my 12 year old shouldn't have my credit card information" is irresponsible.
Okay. That's true. I admit I drew the wrong conclusion from what you your first wrote. Sorry for that. :(


Note, though, that my opinion itself doesn't change. It's not because parents (or oneself) have the prime responsibility to properly guard use of credit card/other means of online payment that developers are off the hook. I'm not conveniently blaming EA/dice/disney/many AAA-game developers for their practice, and I'm most certainly not blaming them because of fluffy reasons like "family values". I don't really mind people buying half-assed, broken or incomplete games, or even buying games where the developer lied to the audience (no man's sky). The reason: people can judge for themselves and just get a refund if they don't like what they've bought. That whole transparency isn't there with loot boxes. I mean...I am correct in assuming you can't simply ask for a refund when you spend money on a loot box...right?
 

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Okay. That's true. I admit I drew the wrong conclusion from what you your first wrote. Sorry for that. :(


Note, though, that my opinion itself doesn't change. It's not because parents (or oneself) have the prime responsibility to properly guard use of credit card/other means of online payment that developers are off the hook. I'm not conveniently blaming EA/dice/disney/many AAA-game developers for their practice, and I'm most certainly not blaming them because of fluffy reasons like "family values". I don't really mind people buying half-assed, broken or incomplete games, or even buying games where the developer lied to the audience (no man's sky). The reason: people can judge for themselves and just get a refund if they don't like what they've bought. That whole transparency isn't there with loot boxes. I mean...I am correct in assuming you can't simply ask for a refund when you spend money on a loot box...right?
I won't argue that it's a garbage mechanic. I've always hated the pay-to-win model regardless of whether or not it's random (reason why I never got into trading card games after the age of 10). I also despise that many games (mostly mobile) also make it nearly impossible to progress in the game without throwing money at them. That's honestly a bigger problem to me than gambling. At least with "loot boxes" you have at least one iota of a chance of getting something good. These games that purposely make the experience difficult (Clash of Clans, and all these other freemium games that get mainstream advertising) unless you spend money, is extortion in my opinion. Sure, you know what you're paying for, but the game is next to impossible unless you pay for it. I don't know of any AAA titles that do this (there's probably an MMO somewhere, I don't play them), but it's only a matter of time until they do.
 
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Haloman800

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Tell me why it isn't gambling in this instance?

Funds involved, kind kind of reward given, transactions between people able to be done, said transactions (third party or not matters in some ways but few of the fundamental ones -- it does not matter if you do paper cash or a secure transaction online), random elements in some cases... seems like gambling as it tends to be defined to me. How, or possibly if, we should restrict such things have a lot of scope for debate but going from the definitions commonly accepted it is pretty clear.
Gambling involves cash prizes. This isn't gambling, it's akin to a "spin the wheel" prize game.

When I was a kid, the local dollar store had "surprise" bags for $1, filled with stickers, puzzles, bubbles, etc. Was that also gambling?

Also, do you accept that buying stocks is gambling? If not, why not?
 

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Gambling involves cash prizes. This isn't gambling, it's akin to a "spin the wheel" prize game.

When I was a kid, the local dollar store had "surprise" bags for $1, filled with stickers, puzzles, bubbles, etc. Was that also gambling?

Also, do you accept that buying stocks is gambling? If not, why not?
actually, just buying a game is gambling, because you never know if youll like it :P
 

ihaveahax

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Gambling involves cash prizes. This isn't gambling, it's akin to a "spin the wheel" prize game.

When I was a kid, the local dollar store had "surprise" bags for $1, filled with stickers, puzzles, bubbles, etc. Was that also gambling?

Also, do you accept that buying stocks is gambling? If not, why not?
it may not be legally, technically gambling right now, but in every other sense, it is gambling. you're paying for a chance at a desirable outcome. it's dangerous to those with gambling habits like those who could possibly dump thousands on in-game microtransactions.
 
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jt_1258

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hmm, having to be 21 just to play overwatch cause it has gambling, welp, seems I need to lie more about my age

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

it may not be legally, technically gambling right now, but in every other sense, it is gambling. you're paying for a chance at a desirable outcome. it's dangerous to those with gambling habits like those who could possibly dump thousands on in-game microtransactions.
aka whales, we have a word for those types who dump boat loads of cash on just wanting one character or skin of said character
 
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