Hardware Are we ever going to get a real 512gb MicroSD card? (And no that Microdia one doesn't exsist)

Futurdreamz

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For a long time now the largest size available has been 256GB, and nobody has even announced a larger capacity (the Microdia one doesn't count. it was announced and was supposed to launch two years ago then the company shut up about it).

And I think that the 200GB size, and the prices are pretty telling.
Going off Amazon.com:
256GB: $150
200GB: $80
128GB: $45

Why 200GB? SD cards have always been multiples of 2 (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc) but then they come out with this one size that's 25% short of a standard multiple? I'm beginning to worry that we may have hit a fabrication limit where about 200gb is the maximum that you can realistically fit on a MicroSD card, and 256gb is a painful stretch. I think we may never see a real 512GB MicroSD Card - which is going to suck when our collection starts to balloon.
 

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For a long time now the largest size available has been 256GB, and nobody has even announced a larger capacity (the Microdia one doesn't count. it was announced and was supposed to launch two years ago then the company shut up about it).

And I think that the 200GB size, and the prices are pretty telling.
Going off Amazon.com:
256GB: $150
200GB: $80
128GB: $45

Why 200GB? SD cards have always been multiples of 2 (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc) but then they come out with this one size that's 25% short of a standard multiple? I'm beginning to worry that we may have hit a fabrication limit where about 200gb is the maximum that you can realistically fit on a MicroSD card, and 256gb is a painful stretch. I think we may never see a real 512GB MicroSD Card - which is going to suck when our collection starts to balloon.
They are not multiples of 2, but powers of 2. They are that size because how storage media works. The reason of the 25% shortage is because flash chips lose their ability to store data over time, the biggest the capacity is, the worst. It can be space allocated for other uses aswell.
 

Mr. Wizard

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For a long time now the largest size available has been 256GB, and nobody has even announced a larger capacity (the Microdia one doesn't count. it was announced and was supposed to launch two years ago then the company shut up about it).

And I think that the 200GB size, and the prices are pretty telling.
Going off Amazon.com:
256GB: $150
200GB: $80
128GB: $45

Why 200GB? SD cards have always been multiples of 2 (4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc) but then they come out with this one size that's 25% short of a standard multiple? I'm beginning to worry that we may have hit a fabrication limit where about 200gb is the maximum that you can realistically fit on a MicroSD card, and 256gb is a painful stretch. I think we may never see a real 512GB MicroSD Card - which is going to suck when our collection starts to balloon.

It's in multiples of 2 because of Moore's law and the theoretical limit of MicroSDXC is 2TB, which is why SDXC readers say they can support it even though no cards exist yet.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also, they just announced a 1TB SDXC so the 512GB MicroSDXC shouldn't be far behind it. It's simple physics.

https://www.sandisk.com/about/media...otype-of-the-worlds-first-1terabyte-SDXC-card
 

Mr. Wizard

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And with the push of 3D and holographic memory I wouldn't be surprised if some of that technology trickles down into to portable market/sector in the next 5 or so years.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-optane-technology.html

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Just imagine the capacities we could be seeing if we'd stuck with miniSD
LOL I hope you are being sarcastic, it's tough to tell sometimes on here... btw, nice block of butter, I can't for the life of me find a butter tray that will fit a 1 lb block of butter.
 

Pleng

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MiniSD is, what... About three times the physical size of micro. You're going to be able to fit more materials if you have more physical space. That's why we get large capacity SD cards before microSD

I can't remember why I changed my avatar to butter, it was so long ago. I was thinking of making an EOF thread to see if anyone remembered (it was definitely in reaction to something or someone on here) but then I realised I didn't really care that much.
 
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Mr. Wizard

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You know MiniSD had the same theoretical limit of MicroSD and that MicroSD replaced MiniSD with new miniaturization techniques at the time right? And that they were both by the same company right?

Hahaha! Nice try, almost had me triggered...
 

Futurdreamz

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It's in multiples of 2 because of Moore's law and the theoretical limit of MicroSDXC is 2TB, which is why SDXC readers say they can support it even though no cards exist yet.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also, they just announced a 1TB SDXC so the 512GB MicroSDXC shouldn't be far behind it. It's simple physics.

https://www.sandisk.com/about/media...otype-of-the-worlds-first-1terabyte-SDXC-card
That is only prototype, and it was announced six months ago. And a SD card is 4x the size of a MicroSD, so it has the same density as the 256gb chip
 

Pleng

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You know MiniSD had the same theoretical limit of MicroSD and that MicroSD replaced MiniSD with new miniaturization techniques at the time right? And that they were both by the same company right?

Hahaha! Nice try, almost had me triggered...

I'm not taking about theoretical limits. I'm talking about physical limitations we have as of now. SD and micro SD have the same theoretical limits but SD gets the bigger sizes first because it's easier to package higher capacities into larger physical spaces. It's not rocket science
 

Mr. Wizard

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That is only prototype, and it was announced six months ago. And a SD card is 4x the size of a MicroSD, so it has the same density as the 256gb chip
What's your point? Of course they have to start with a prototype lol. You seem to be assuming that an SD is just made up of a chip the same size as the one in a MicroSD card, they use bigger or multiple chips. They are not more "dense", they just have more surface area.

Also the 256GB MicroSD only came out 10 months ago, it will be several more months before we see a prototype 512GB and probably several more before we see a consumer card, according to Moore's Law.
 
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Futurdreamz

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What's your point? Of course they have to start with a prototype lol. You seem to be assuming that an SD is just made up of a chip the same size as the one in a MicroSD card, they use bigger or multiple chips. They are not more "dense", they just have more surface area.

Also the 256GB MicroSD only came out 10 months ago, it will be several more months before we see a prototype 512GB and probably several more before we see a consumer card, according to Moore's Law.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You are talking about surface area and density as if they were the same, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
My point is that it is a prototype, and not a shipping product. You can find prototype of all sorts of things of varying levels of technical possibility and likelyhood of actual manufacture. Hell, there's the 512GB MicroSD prototype i previously mentioned.



And i do know what I'm talking about. Chips scale by area, not volume - if they did, you'd only be able to squeeze 1/10th the amount of data on a MicroSD (so a 52GB MicroSD to a 512GB SD). A SD card is 4x the area of a MicroSD card, and so the MicroSD card can only fit about 1/4th the capacity of a SD card when both are using the same density and manufacturing processes. So if the maximum possible size of a SD card is 1TB, then MicroSD cards can only go up to about 256GB
 

Mr. Wizard

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I'm not taking about theoretical limits. I'm talking about physical limitations we have as of now. SD and micro SD have the same theoretical limits but SD gets the bigger sizes first because it's easier to package higher capacities into larger physical spaces. It's not rocket science
Wait, what the fuck are you talking about? You were talking about MiniSD, now you are talking about SD and MicroSD? Do you even know what you are talking about?
 
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Futurdreamz

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They have obviously doubled the density of the chips to go from 512GB to 1GB, what makes you think they can't use that same density to go from 256GB to 512GB? You are right, it is simple physics, except for you I guess.

Wait, what the fuck are you talking about? You were talking about MiniSD, now you are talking about SD and MicroSD? Do you even know what you are talking about?
I have never once said MiniSD. I have always said MicroSD.

And again, comparing the area the MicroSD was already twice the density of the SD card - indicating that they announced the 1TB prototype after using the same level of technology in the 256GB MicroSD.
 
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Pleng

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Wait, what the fuck are you talking about? You were talking about MiniSD, now you are talking about SD and MicroSD? Do you even know what you are talking about?

The principal is *exactly* the same. I'm using SD as an example because MiniSD is not made any more. You even made the same argument yourself in response to someone else; more surface area means larger physical space to put the storage hardware...
 

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Ok people.

Can you see how the MicroSD chips pretty much equal HALF the size of the SD chip? The other half of an SD card is taken up by the controller which I believe also grows exponentially with the size of the NAND chip.

Any questions?


original-sd-card-before-chip-replacement.jpg

microsd_lineup.jpg
 
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It's in multiples of 2 because of Moore's law and the theoretical limit of MicroSDXC is 2TB, which is why SDXC readers say they can support it even though no cards exist yet.
Moore's law is about transistors that can be fit in a die. And it died a year ago.
 
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@Mr. Wizard as someone who's taken apart several broken regular SD cards, I can say that what's inside them varies greatly depending on size. @Pleng is entirely correct, if we had stuck with MiniSD instead of MicroSD, the larger size of MiniSD would mean they can fit more dies in the space, making it possible for larger size cards to be sold to the public sooner.

For reference, here is an image from the inside of a fairly recent standard SDXC Card.
20150523-1335-5254.jpg
 
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Veho

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Are you people seriously arguing the exact same point with each other? MicroSD cards have a smaller capacity than SD cards because they are physically smaller. Now drop it or I'll lock the thread.
 

Mr. Wizard

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@Mr Wizard as someone who's taken apart several broken regular SD cards, I can say that what's inside them varies greatly depending on size. @Pleng is entirely correct, if we had stuck with MiniSD instead of MicroSD, the larger size of MiniSD would mean they can fit more dies in the space.

For reference, here is an image from the inside of a fairly recent standard SDXC Card.
20150523-1335-5254.jpg
Nice pic! Using that logic though why not just go with regular SD cards then? or SSD? Hell, tack on that new Optane card to the back of the Switch yeah!

There is a reason Secure Digital killed off the MiniSD.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Moore's law is about transistors that can be fit in a die. And it died a year ago.
NAND chips are made up of NAND gate transistors. Moore's Law is not dead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/01/05/ces-2017-moores-law-not-dead-says-intel-boss/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Are you people seriously arguing the exact same point with each other? MicroSD cards have a smaller capacity than SD cards because they are physically smaller. Now drop it or I'll lock the thread.
Couldn't have said it better myself, I'm out...
 

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