Hacking A small thread on how to tell if you got an incomplete downgrade

[Acryt]

I noticed there is a lot of people posting the same "odd" results I got and nobody having any clue what is up, and After experiencing TWO incomplete downgrades on my N3DS XL on 9.9.0-26U, there is quite a few signs as to how you can tell if you did get a partial downgrade, and which is why you may have some issues you can't find much details on or how to fix. If you find any other telling signs, you can post them here.

An incomplete downgrade will show signs of being an 9.2.0 downgrade in the system menu, but these results below are signs of being an incomplete downgrade. Even if you did everything right, it can still do an incomplete downgrade. I had the correct updates file as once I updated to 10.3, I was able to downgrade within a minute correctly to 9.2

The solution to all these is to simply recovery mode, or update to 10.3 and then run the downgrade again. A partial downgrade is most likely highly risky to continue running on, and won't work as expected.

1. When you're installing CFW, PastaCFW + Minipasta run a blackscreen and freeze, or they kick you back to HBL. When you try to run FBI to confirm if it worked, it will still say invalid signature on CIAs. This is a sign of an incomplete downgrade as the signature patch cannot be done.

2. Your browser version is the same as your old FW you were on, and in some cases makes the browser inaccessible to the following error: "The Internet Browser is not usuable at this time." Which would mean the auto page for browserhax won't work, but with some fooling around I did find a way around this, but you're better off just updating to 10.3 and repeating the downgrade process because it will give you the issue from #1

3. CFW like Rxtools.3dsx + ReiNand.3dsx + Gateway Tools and such will immediately kick you back to HBL, without even giving an error like "No Emunand present!"

4. When you run Sysupdater to redo it, it will do the downgrade process, but only install 20 or less files before saying "NATIVE FARM: Installed." Also a sign of another incomplete downgrade. When you run it again it can also say it's installing, but not install anything and complete.

5. If the first time you run Sysupdater and it only installs a couple files and does "NDS needs to be powered off" error, this also means you've got an incomplete downgrade.

6. Being able to run Ironfall Invasion, aka Ironhax on 9.2 after a downgrade is also a sign of an incomplete downgrade, as it will never go past the 3DS w/ Nintendo logo on 9.2 due to Ironfall being incompatible with 9.2 (Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is what people have been saying)

You can also use this to check:
https://github.com/ihaveamac/downgrade-check/releases
Thanks @ihaveamac

This is the most telling signs I noticed, and seems to be an issue people are popping up with. Once again if you find more telling obvious problems to this issue, post here.

 

[ihaveahax]

I think I can actually tell what NATIVE_FIRM version someone is using, and compare it to https://3dbrew.org/wiki/FIRM#NATIVE_FIRM to see if they did a proper downgrade. if you'll excuse me...

 

[Acryt]

I think I can actually tell what NATIVE_FIRM version someone is using, and compare it to https://3dbrew.org/wiki/FIRM#NATIVE_FIRM to see if they did a proper downgrade. if you'll excuse me...

Hm? What do you mean? You have an idea on how to check if the native firm installed is completely 9.2? Because the system menu would say it was 9.2, but not all services would be downgraded, which isn't immediate obvious until you run into all the above errors.

 

[ihaveahax]

Hm? What do you mean? You have an idea on how to check if the native firm installed is completely 9.2? Because the system menu would say it was 9.2, but not all services would be downgraded.

I'm trying out something right now that should check the user's kernel/NATIVE_FIRM version, and see if it's low enough.

 

[Acryt]

I'm trying out something right now that should check the user's kernel/NATIVE_FIRM version, and see if it's low enough.

Hopefully it works, an incomplete downgrade is frustrating. It has all the signs of being on 9.2 that you'd expect but run into all sorts of issues once you get to installing CFW.

 

[ihaveahax]

https://github.com/ihaveamac/downgrade-check

maybe it works. it properly detected my 9.2 and 10.3 sysnand and emunand. I don't have "improperly downgraded" console, nor do I want to try that out again.

 

[Louch 雪 Daishiteru]

https://github.com/ihaveamac/downgrade-check

maybe it works. it properly detected my 9.2 and 10.3 sysnand and emunand. I don't have "improperly downgraded" console, nor do I want to try that out again.

I tested the tool both in sysNAND and emuNAND, in sysNAND it claims 9.2 (2.46-0), but in my updated emuNAND (10.3) it claims 2.50-1 (which would be 9.6). Any idea why? (O3DS)

 

[Kartik]

. CFW like Rxtools.3dsx + ReiNand.3dsx and such will immediately kick you back to HBL, without even giving an error like "No Emunand present!"

Ithink using The .3dsx version with ninjhax2,homemenuhax and browserhax will immediately kick you back to HBL but using NINJHAX1 it will load the cfw

 

[Louch 雪 Daishiteru]

Ithink using The .3dsx version with ninjhax2,homemenuhax and browserhax will immediately kick you back to HBL but using NINJHAX1 it will load the cfw

The rxtools.3dsx loads just fine for me on Menuhax. I don't know if this could be a rxtools 2.6 limitation, because i'm using the lastest nightly. So probably this isn't a ninjhax 2 problem.

 

[dark_samus3]

I tested the tool both in sysNAND and emuNAND, in sysNAND it claims 9.2 (2.46-0), but in my updated emuNAND (10.3) it claims 2.50-1 (which would be 9.6). Any idea why? (O3DS)

This is because the firmware.bin being used is a 9.6 firm (not sure what CFW you're using, but I know for sure cakes does this) They don't worry about updating it as it works just fine with the 9.6 version and they would have to redo all of the patches (emuNAND, sig patches, reboot patches) for the newer firm and there doesn't seem to be any ill effects from running the (slightly) older firm on 10.3

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ithink using The .3dsx version with ninjhax2,homemenuhax and browserhax will immediately kick you back to HBL but using NINJHAX1 it will load the cfw

rxTools 2.6 will only work on ninjhax 1.x as later version include an updated brahma (dubbed brahma 2) they properly boot from ninjhax 2.x

 

[Louch 雪 Daishiteru]

This is because the firmware.bin being used is a 9.6 firm (not sure what CFW you're using, but I know for sure cakes does this) They don't worry about updating it as it works just fine with the 9.6 version and they would have to redo all of the patches (emuNAND, sig patches, reboot patches) for the newer firm and there doesn't seem to be any ill effects from running the (slightly) older firm on 10.3

So it shows 10.3 but is actually running 9.6 on the CFW, okay i got it. Thanks for the reply and the CFW guide! xD

 

[dark_samus3]

So it shows 10.3 but is actually running 9.6 on the CFW, okay i got it. Thanks for the reply and the CFW guide! xD

Well when you get an incomplete downgrade the 10.3 native_firm is still running in the background... basically version numbers have their own separate titles (and even then there's also different titles just for the one version number... there's NVer which is the -x number, for example the -20 in 9.2.0-20 and CVer (I think) which is the main version number) so you could, in theory, display 1.0.0-0 on any console with the right set of titles while maintaining the actual version the system is on

 

[Blue]

1. When you're installing CFW, PastaCFW + Minipasta run a blackscreen and freeze, or they kick you back to HBL. When you try to run FBI to confirm if it worked, it will still say invalid signature on CIAs. This is a sign of an incomplete downgrade as the signature patch cannot be done.

I dont get kicked i run the injected version of homebrew.cia and i still get the signature error.

 

[Louch 雪 Daishiteru]

Well when you get an incomplete downgrade the 10.3 native_firm is still running in the background... basically version numbers have their own separate titles (and even then there's also different titles just for the one version number... there's NVer which is the -x number, for example the -20 in 9.2.0-20 and CVer (I think) which is the main version number) so you could, in theory, display 1.0.0-0 on any console with the right set of titles while maintaining the actual version the system is on

So basically the CFW works just like an incomplete downgrade? When i update the emuNAND to the latest version and run RxTools, it actually is running the custom firmware.bin instead of the native_firm of the original update, but showing the 10.3.0-28U in the settings?

 

[dark_samus3]

So basically the CFW works just like an incomplete downgrade? When i update the emuNAND to the latest version and run RxTools, it actually is running the custom firmware.bin instead of the native_firm of the original update?

It's kinda the opposite of how the current incomplete downgrades are working (NATIVE_FIRM stays the same the rest changes, whereas this is the opposite, everything else stays the same except the firmware) otherwise essentially yes, the CFW runs the modified firmware.bin with the patches I mentioned before

 

[Louch 雪 Daishiteru]

It's kinda the opposite of how the current incomplete downgrades are working (NATIVE_FIRM stays the same the rest changes, whereas this is the opposite, everything else stays the same except the firmware) otherwise essentially yes, the CFW runs the modified firmware.bin with the patches I mentioned before

Yes, this is what i meant, sorry. I got it, thanks!

 

[Acryt]

I dont get kicked i run the injected version of homebrew.cia and i still get the signature error.

You don't always get kicked, the Pasta's will look as if they worked as well as they are a quick boot and back to the launcher when they do work. Have you tried Minipasta?

 

[jagerstaffel]

5. If the first time you run Sysupdater and it only installs a couple files and does "NDS needs to be powered off" error, this also means you've got an incomplete downgrade.

This has been my only problem so far in many, many attempts. When installing the cia files, I noticed it just doesn't seem to touch all 126 files in the updates folder, and I've always gotten the "error has occurred" screen upon reboot. Is there any way to make sysupdater go through all 126 files? Just why in heavens name does it do a half assed job anyways....

 

[Acryt]

This has been my only problem so far in many, many attempts. When installing the cia files, I noticed it just doesn't seem to touch all 126 files in the updates folder, and I've always gotten the "error has occurred" screen upon reboot. Is there any way to make sysupdater go through all 126 files? Just why in heavens name does it do a half assed job anyways....

DS version + FW? I had no success at all from 9.9 on N3DS XL. It was only on 10.3 where I got a complete downgrade.

Also, have you tried to install any CFW afterwards, and does it say 9.2 in the menu?

 

[dark_samus3]

This has been my only problem so far in many, many attempts. When installing the cia files, I noticed it just doesn't seem to touch all 126 files in the updates folder, and I've always gotten the "error has occurred" screen upon reboot. Is there any way to make sysupdater go through all 126 files? Just why in heavens name does it do a half assed job anyways....

Certain titles don't need to be updated (this is checked beforehand) and it is actually safer to do it that way. The only reason to EVER uninstall all of the titles and reinstall all of them is if you're region changing. Also the "error has occurred" screen wouldn't be helped in the slightest by making sysupdater go through all of the CIAs, you probably simply need to clear the update out (google how to get rid of the update nag)