Hardware Safest minimum temperature to carry 3DS in winter?

[Prans]

Hey folks! Winter's already here and I was wondering what is the safest minimum temperature to carry my 3DS around when I get outside for StreetPass? Where I'm currently studying it gets easily to subzero temperatures (usually between -5 and 5 degrees celcius). I know I can just have my homemade StreetPass Relay but I really want to know if it's safe to carry my 3DS in winter outside (sleep mode). Or turning it off makes it any safer? Does low temperature have any effect on the 3DS. I've read here that low temperatures can cause the LCD screen of the DS to work slowly or not work at all. So what's the temperature you recommend as safe for the 3DS? Did you carry yours at low temperatures and did you notice any changes?

Thanks for your replies!

 

[migles]

what i heard so far was extreme temperatures damaging the batteries...

for the console, i think the problem is not the temperature, is the humidity.. humid air, gets inside the console and that it very bad for every electric stuff..

 

[logon]

From what I've seen briefly browsing the net and I think its what batteries can handle you don't want to go lower than (-20 to -25 degrees Celsius)

I think you should be fine

 

[Prans]

what i heard so far was extreme temperatures damaging the batteries...

for the console, i think the problem is not the temperature, is the humidity.. humid air, gets inside the console and that it very bad for every electric stuff..

Thanks for your reply!

So, does that make summer more risky?

 

[Prans]

From what I've seen briefly browsing the net and I think its what batteries can handle you don't want to go lower than (-20 to -25 degrees Celsius)

I think you should be fine

Thanks for replying!Hope you're right!

 

[Chaldron]

Yeah just use reasonable judgement - would you really take your 3DS out in sub-zero weather just to get hits?

Note that the LCD quality is probably lower than a smartphones' though so it would be riskier to take out the console versus a phone.

 

[Foxi4]

3DS's are equipped with Lithium-Ion battery packs (Li-Ion) which have a very wide operating temperature range. The temperature mostly influences their discharge rate due to the changing level of impedance - the batteries generally perform well in low-to-medium temperatures and start losing performance in sub-zero and high temperatures.

They're nothing like NiCd or NiMh batteries where an extremely low temperature could physically damage the battery pack. There's no sensible reason as to why you shouldn't use your 3DS in winter or expose it to cold weather - chances are that before the weather would reach temperatures low enough to negatively impact the battery pack, you would be long since frozen over.

In fact, Li-Ion batteries seem to reach peak performance at around 10 degrees celsius from what I'm reading, but it depends on the battery pack in question.

EDIT: Some minor Errata, post with sources available here.

 

[Prans]

Yeah just use reasonable judgement - would you really take your 3DS out in sub-zero weather just to get hits?

Note that the LCD quality is probably lower than a smartphones' though so it would be riskier to take out the console versus a phone.

Yup, guess it's really not worth the risk!

 

[Prans]

The 3DS is equipped with a Lithium-Ion battery pack (Li-Ion) which have a very wide operating temperature range. The temperature mostly influences their discharge rate due to the changing level of impedance - the batteries generally perform well in low-to-medium temperatures and start losing performance in sub-zero and high temperatures.

They're nothing like NiCd or NiMh batteries where an extremely low temperature could physically damage the battery pack. There's no sensible reason as to why you shouldn't use your 3DS in winter or expose it to cold weather - chances are that before the weather would reach temperatures low enough to negatively impact the battery pack, you would be long since frozen over.

In fact, Li-Ion batteries seem to reach peak performance at around 10 degrees celsius from what I'm reading, but it depends on the battery pack in question.

Thanks for your in-depth answer. But I guess I won't take the risk now, unless the StreetPass urge gets to me...

 

[nukeboy95]

I was out all day in 15-25F weather and my 3ds seems fine

 

[Foxi4]

Yup, guess it's really not worth the risk!

Low temperatures will not damage your LCD, at least not low temperatures in which you could feasibly survive in. Depending on the type, LCD matrices can work perfectly fine in temperatures reaching -40 degrees Celsius, the worst that could possibly happen is lowering the refresh rate ever so slightly. There is no danger of the LCD freezing over, no matter whether it's crap or not.

 

[Prans]

Low temperatures will not damage your LCD, at least not low temperatures in which you could feasibly survive in. Depending on the type, LCD matrices can work perfectly fine in temperatures reaching -40 degrees Celsius, the worst that could possibly happen is lowering the refresh rate ever so slightly. There is no danger of the LCD freezing over, no matter whether it's crap or not.

Okaaay, I think you are getting me reassured. I might go for a walk with my 3DS now... Thanks a lot

 

[Foxi4]

I'm not going to say that those systems are built to last because they're not, but low temperature is really the least of your worries. Your own body heat will probably keep the 3DS in a nice, comfy temperature if you keep it in your pocket. An incredibly high temperature would be a bigger worry, but contemporary devices simply shut off when they're overheating so that's hardly an issue - that, and it wouldn't overheat if it wasn't performing any intense calculations or wasn't exposed to direct sunlight in the middle of an African desert. Moisture and dust particles are far more down-to-earth worries you could consider, really.

EDIT: Some errata, post elaborated with sources here.

 

[VMM]

3DS's are equipped with Lithium-Ion battery packs (Li-Ion) which have a very wide operating temperature range. The temperature mostly influences their discharge rate due to the changing level of impedance - the batteries generally perform well in low-to-medium temperatures and start losing performance in sub-zero and high temperatures.

What do you consider high temperatures? If you could post in celsius that would be nice

 

[Foxi4]

What do you consider high temperatures? If you could post in celsius that would be nice

Prans VMM
Upon reading up more on the subject of Li-Ion batteries, I have to revise what I said slightly. I quote:

Lithium-ion (Li-ion) cell characteristics include a nominal voltage of 3.6 V, 1000 duty cycles per lifetime, a rate load current of less than 4 C, an average energy density of 160 Wh/kg, a charge time of less than 4 hours and a typical discharge rate of approximately 1% to 3% per month when in storage. Li-ion cells operate effectively between -20°C and +60°C. However, new chemical formulations are extending that range to -30°C and +80°C.

~http://powerelectronics.com/mobile/designing-battery-packs-thermal-extremes

HOWEVER!

Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and diminishes the capacity. Batteries that would provide 100 percent capacity at 27°C (80°F) will typically deliver only 50 percent at –18°C (0°F). The capacity decrease is linear with temperature. The capacity decrease is momentary and the level of decline depends on the battery chemistry.

Li-ion also performs better at high temperatures than at low ones. Heat lowers the internal resistance but this stresses the battery. Warming a dying flashlight or cellular phone battery in your jean pocket might provide additional runtime in the winter.

~http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/discharging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

That being said, low temperature does not greatly influence battery health, rather the discharge rate. In other words, your battery will discharge quicker when it's colder than when it's in optimal temperature, which is 27 degrees celsius, but it is under stronger stress in extremely high temperatures although it technically performs better.

Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated temperature and for most Li-ion, a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3 demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.

More on battery health can be found here:

~http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

All in all, as I said, low temperatures shouldn't harm your battery. High temperatures will, over an extended period of time, so they cause permanent loss of capacity while low temperatures cause a momentary loss of capacity.

SCIENCE!

 

[Clydefrosch]

if you keep it shielded from the direct cold (like inside your bag) or whatever, it shouldnt ever get close to freezing temps.

 

[Foxi4]

if you keep it shielded from the direct cold (like inside your bag) or whatever, it shouldnt ever get close to freezing temps.

Very true. If the inside of the bag you're holding reaches -20 degrees Celsius, there's nothing you can do because you're probably already dead.

 

[tbgtbg]

Do not expose the Nintendo DS, Game Cards or any of the Nintendo DS components or accessories to extreme heat or cold. The liquid crystal displays (LCD) may become slower or may not work when the temperature is low. The LCD will deteriorate at a high temperature.

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/manuals/precautions_ds_english.jsp

Too bad they don't say what they consider extreme heat/cold...

 

[Prans]

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/manuals/precautions_ds_english.jsp

Too bad they don't say what they consider extreme heat/cold...

Yup, that's what initially got me worried!

 

[Prans]

Foxi4 thanks a lot for your informative answers!

However, another question pops up to mind now... Do low temperatures affect the internal hardware in any way?