Graphical Impact of Xbox 720 & PS4

[slingblade1170]

I don't think that the Xbox 720 & PS4 will have the graphical impact that the Xbox 360 & PS3 had over their previous consoles. I think most are expecting this vast improvement in graphics & hardware but I just don't see it happening. Now, of course both systems will pack more of a punch than the newly released Wii U but I don't see them being too much better, graphically.

The transition from Xbox to Xbox 360 was amazing, everything looked so much more beautiful and the details were outstanding. I just think that people have there hopes up a bit too high and won't be much too impressed with these new consoles. Whether it does or doesn't meet everyone expectations it will not stop me from buying the new gen of systems and enjoying what they offer. I just they bring something to the table besides slightly improved graphics or a slightly improved kinect or psMove. Anyways I stated my opinions, what are everyone elses' thoughts on the next gen?

 

[chyyran]

TBH, the WiiU is a good idea of next gen graphics (See the graphics demo below), if developers take advantage of the GPU. You can't get much better than this without going into expensive, PC quality graphics territory, for the next few years. If the expected 2013 release year is to be believed, the graphics capability will be pretty similar.



By "packing more of a punch", that's not necessarily a given. I expect them to be pretty similar. Don't think that there will be that much of a gap, if at all between the WiiU, and the Sony and M$ 8th-Generation contributions.

 

[slingblade1170]

TBH, the WiiU is a good idea of next gen graphics (See the graphics demo below), if developers take advantage of the GPU. You can't get much better than this without going into expensive, PC quality graphics territory, for the next few years. If the expected 2013 release year is to be believed, the graphics capability will be pretty similar.



By "packing more of a punch", that's not necessarily a given. I expect them to be pretty similar. Don't think that there will be that much of a gap, if at all between the WiiU, and the Sony and M$ 8th-Generation contributions.

That's exactly the way I see it. I see a barely more powerful hardware setup over the Wii U but slim to none difference in graphics.

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

The main problem with people expecting a leap in graphics on the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft is that yes they can be improved but the giant leap only comes from hardware costing a lot of $$$. Law of diminishing returns and all that.

I do believe that the PS4 and 720 what every they are called, will be more powerful than the Wii-U but in the same breath I don't think that there will be enough of a difference that people will go "The Wii-U looks like crap!"

The thing I would worry about from Sony and Microsoft is the $$$ if they do make some awesome machines they will cost a lot of money at launch. This would in effect hand Nintendo this gen as well at least when it comes to sales.

I can hardly wait to see what Sony and Microsoft are going to offer. I suspect there will be some cool and not so cool surprises

 

[chyyran]

The main problem with people expecting a leap in graphics on the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft is that yes they can be improved but the giant leap only comes from hardware costing a lot of $$$. Law of diminishing returns and all that.

I do believe that the PS4 and 720 what every they are called, will be more powerful than the Wii-U but in the same breath I don't think that there will be enough of a difference that people will go "The Wii-U looks like crap!"

The thing I would worry about from Sony and Microsoft is the $$$ if they do make some awesome machines they will cost a lot of money at launch. This would in effect hand Nintendo this gen as well at least when it comes to sales.

I can hardly wait to see what Sony and Microsoft are going to offer. I suspect there will be some cool and not so cool surprises

I don't think Sony can afford to launch such an expensive console this gen. They need to get back on their feet fast, and a cheaper, not as "awesome" machine that is affordable at launch is a great way to do so.

Besides, the only reason people are expecting a "leap in graphics" is because the Wii's graphics looked like shit. I can't truly go back to playing my Wii anymore after seeing a bunch of games (Skyward Sword, TLS, etc) on my Wii, compared to Dolphin with just 2x Internal Res (No AA or anything, but it looked so awesome)

 

[Foxi4]

The PS4 and the NextBox will live up to the expectations - games on consoles nowadays only look good because developers are capable of thinking of programming shortcuts and tricks that can squeeze more out of the systems. The truth is that they're running low, mostly on RAM. The 360 has 512MB RAM shared between the CPU and the GPU, the PS3 has 256MB RAM and 256MB VRAM - that's not much. The games we see on those platforms these days are either watered-down ports of PC games or games glued together with spit, ready to topple over due to lacks of resources.

Believe it or not, it's high time for a new generation of consoles.

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

I don't think Sony can afford to launch such an expensive console this gen. They need to get back on their feet fast, and a cheaper, not as "awesome" machine that is affordable at launch is a great way to do so.

I agree with that assessment. To be honest I have days when I wonder how much longer Sony can stay in business... They bleed astonishing amounts of cash in nearly every sector they are involved in. Few companies could afford that for very long and even Sony will fall if they do not make money on something soon.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

I personally don't care. It does 1080p HD and doesn't look like PS1 graphics? That's all I care about. Hell Metroid Prime is still one of the best looking games of all time, so if that era of console gaming was still around but able to be done in HD, but still have the same specs, I'd still be happy.

 

[Foxi4]

TBH, the WiiU is a good idea of next gen graphics (See the graphics demo below), if developers take advantage of the GPU. You can't get much better than this without going into expensive, PC quality graphics territory, for the next few years.

Yeah you can - that's the problem.




The PS3 and the XBox 360 used to be the platforms of choice for developers - the PC games on the other hand were console ports adjusted to a keyboard plus mouse setup with upped graphics. Now, developers are still interested in console development, but the games are becoming more and more crippled as the platform of interest changed and the resulting software still has to be "down-portable" to the weaker architectures. More resources equals more freedom, and freedom is what the developers need to show off their talent.

 

[chyyran]

I personally don't care. It does 1080p HD and doesn't look like PS1 graphics? That's all I care about. Hell Metroid Prime is still one of the best looking games of all time, so if that era of console gaming was still around but able to be done in HD, but still have the same specs, I'd still be happy.

Dolphin

That is all.

The PS3 and the XBox 360 used to be the platforms of choice for developers - the PC games on the other hand were console ports adjusted to a keyboard plus mouse setup with upped graphics. Now, developers are still interested in console development, but the games are becoming more and more crippled as the platform of interest changed and the resulting software still has to be "down-portable" to the weaker architectures. More resources equals more freedom, and freedom is what the developers need to show off their talent.

Can you elaborate a bit, I don't really understand what you mean.

I was talking about the fact that a good PC graphics card is expensive, and so if a console wants to match it, it will be expensive as well, if you're referring to that statement. Of course, since PC graphics are constantly evolving, you can't really match up with PC graphics for long, but regardless.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Dolphin

That is all.

I'm not gonna lie, pretty sure my computer can't handle that.

 

[Foxi4]

Can you elaborate a bit, I don't really understand what you mean.

What I mean is that developers are forced to create games that would work on a 360/PS3 setup, mostly by the publishers who will always go for a multiplatform release unless they pay their royalties to either side of the "conflict". By being forced to do so, they have to cut corners, and by cutting corners they release content not in the form they would like to release it, but in a form that'll work.

Have a look at Bethesda's Skyrim ports compared to the PC version. It's Bugfest City, everyone! Mostly due to Bethesda's inabillity to code for consoles, but partially because console hardware has been officially maxed out and to even work, Skyrim had to be "simplified". Try running any contemporary game on 512MB RAM (about 300 will be eaten up by Windows) with a 256MB VRAM graphics card - good luck with those framerates.

 

[kristianity77]

I have to laugh at people thinking that the new Sony and MS consoles will look "similar" to whats on the WIIU. If this was going to be the case, why on earth bother? WiiU titles now look no better than what we get on 7 year old PS3s and 360s so what would be the point in releasing something that is barely better!

I get tired of saying this but a new console will NOT have to have anywhere near the power of a PC to get similar returns in terms of performance.

Youve only got to look at some of the best graphics of this generation like Uncharted 3, Far Cry 3, Halo 4, Red Dead...the list goes on to know that its no where near the same bringing games to consoles as with PC.

There was no PC costing under £1000 (in 2004) that is based on 2004 technology (when current gen hardware was finalised) that could run these games back then.

So why this time should it be any different?

The new consoles which come out, whether 2013 or beyond, will be comparable to high end PC gaming of today (perhaps not ultra high end insane graphics). The hardware wont on paper be anywhere close to a high end PC of course, but then it doesnt need to be. Its a closed system, with no real operating system chugging along in the background which means developers can hone the shit out of making games run at maximum optimisation with much lesser hardware.

What developers have done this gen astounds me and still does. The graphics they can push from systems which are 7/8 years old is amazing. You dont get graphics like that on PCs from the same era.

 

[Geren]

Video games are becoming too big. I mean, the market has been growing steadily. In order to cater to this big audience, the next consoles must be cheaper. Not everyone is willing to take on a "five hundred ninety nine" dolars for a hobby. Just look at how much sony has lost over the ps3. Yes, it's a wonderful console, but I couldn't even dream of getting it in the first years. Anyone with the capability to get something like the ps3 at launch, was better going for a PC.

If game console designers are smart, they should learn from the mistakes of this generation: no crappy graphics like the wii, no big price like the ps3, and no goddamn hardware fails like the xbox360.

 

[chyyran]

I have to laugh at people thinking that the new Sony and MS consoles will look "similar" to whats on the WIIU. If this was going to be the case, why on earth bother? WiiU titles now look no better than what we get on 7 year old PS3s and 360s so what would be the point in releasing something that is barely better!

I get tired of saying this but a new console will NOT have to have anywhere near the power of a PC to get similar returns in terms of performance.

Youve only got to look at some of the best graphics of this generation like Uncharted 3, Far Cry 3, Halo 4, Red Dead...the list goes on to know that its no where near the same bringing games to consoles as with PC.

There was no PC costing under £1000 (in 2004) that is based on 2004 technology (when current gen hardware was finalised) that could run these games back then.

So why this time should it be any different?

The new consoles which come out, whether 2013 or beyond, will be comparable to high end PC gaming of today (perhaps not ultra high end insane graphics). The hardware wont on paper be anywhere close to a high end PC of course, but then it doesnt need to be. Its a closed system, with no real operating system chugging along in the background which means developers can hone the shit out of making games run at maximum optimisation with much lesser hardware.

What developers have done this gen astounds me and still does. The graphics they can push from systems which are 7/8 years old is amazing. You dont get graphics like that on PCs from the same era.

If the devs are able to push the envelop on the PS360, why not on the WiiU? Why not on the PS4/X720? And they will not be comparable to the high end PC gaming of today. Just look at the WiiU launch titles. Most of the ports look like shit, not because the WiiU has a bad GPU, but because the devs don't know it well enough yet. When the developers get to know the aspects of the PS4/X720 to pull off the magic they do today on the PS360, PC gaming will already have moved upwards.

Those games you listed were made near EOL for these consoles. Devs know it extremely well to pull those games off. What is more comparable, is if you compare a PS360 launch title, to a high-end game of that year.

What you also don't get is that Sony cannot afford to create another extremely powerful console, relative to what the PS3 was to the Wii this gen. Simply because of this, the PS4 will not be more extremely powerful than the WiiU.

M$, can, but will they? Extremely powerful hardware hits extremely hard on your wallets. It's just not a good business move.

 

[Sterling]

*Snip

Well, for one windows is a resource hog compared to the lightweight OSes of the consoles. Another is the fact that consoles are dedicated to games and for games. You don't set aside resources for word processing on an Xbox 360, so you can put that much more memory and processing power into games. PC games of yesteryear mostly required large amounts of power because PCs are easily upgraded and it's easier to harness raw power than constrain yourself within limits like they have to do on consoles.

You seem to already understand this so it really shouldn't be such a surprise that older hardware is just as capable.

 

[Foxi4]

Video games are becoming too big. I mean, the market has been growing steadily. In order to cater to this big audience, the next consoles must be cheaper.

Selling more for cheap or less for more may or may not be a successful strategy - consoles have to support contemporary games first and foremost, and they're doing that poorly today.

Not everyone is willing to take on a "five hundred ninety nine" dolars for a hobby.

Not everyone has to play video games as a hobby. Believe it or not, playing video games is actually a luxurious passtime activity - nobody's going to slash prices just because you specifically can't afford it - ten other Average Joes can. That said, $599 was a bit of a stretch.

Just look at how much sony has lost over the ps3. Yes, it's a wonderful console, but I couldn't even dream of getting it in the first years. Anyone with the capability to get something like the ps3, is better going for a PC.

Like it was said earlier, no PC at the $599 price point could run the games the PS3 could at the time, so that point is moot. The console became cheaper once the technology became cheaper - it's simple as that. Perhaps the PS3 was "too inventive" for its own good, and that ramped up the price.

If game console designers are smart, they should learn from the mistakes of this generation: no crappy graphics like the wii, no big price like the ps3, and no goddamn hardware fails like the xbox360.

Here we agree entirely - sub-par hardware like the Wii is a no-no, behemoths nobody can code for like the PS3's CELL are a no-no, suicidal CPU/GPU/Memory setups like the 360 and non-working add-ons like the Kinect are a no-no.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Not everyone is willing to take on a "five hundred ninety nine" dolars for a hobby.

Clearly you don't know many hobbies then.

 

[kristianity77]

If the devs are able to push the envelop on the PS360, why not on the WiiU? Why not on the PS4/X720? And they will not be comparable to the high end PC gaming of today. Just look at the WiiU launch titles. Most of the ports look like shit, not because the WiiU has a bad GPU, but because the devs don't know it well enough yet. When the developers get to know the aspects of the PS4/X720 to pull off the magic they do today on the PS360, PC gaming will already have moved upwards.

Those games you listed were made near EOL for these consoles. Devs know it extremely well to pull those games off. What is more comparable, is if you compare a PS360 launch title, to a high-end game of that year.

What you also don't get is that Sony cannot afford to create another extremely powerful console, relative to what the PS3 was to the Wii this gen. Simply because of this, the PS4 will not be more extremely powerful than the WiiU.

M$, can, but will they? Extremely powerful hardware hits extremely hard on your wallets. It's just not a good business move.

I personally think that the WiiU is an absolute hunk of junk im afraid. To me, its one generation behind just like the Wii was. The Wii was a fair bit better than a PS2, but Id say only slightly better than the original XBOX.

The WiiU is absolute rubbish for 2012. You can say that its early doors so games are going to look a bit ropey but i disagree, they should STILL have a marked improvement from a 7 year old 360 or PS3.

And on the other point, if sony have the PS4 down as only "marginally" being better than the WIIU, which would only put it "slightly" higher than the current PS3, why on earth would they bother?

Can you imagine it "heres the latest call of duty running on PS3, and here it is side by side on the PS4. As you can see, its marginally better. Now, do you want to play it on PS3, or spend hundreds of dollars to play this slightly better game on a new console." It wont happen. When they new systems hit the shelves, if there isnt a massive improvement over what we already have, who on earth is going to buy it?

The Wii U is a big jump from the Wii, which is solely what Nintendo wanted. They dont care about competing for grunt. The PS3 was a massive improvement from PS2, and the 360 the same over the Xbox.

So why all of a sudden do we think the trend will buck? Ive been in and around consoles, PCs, since the early 80s, and these new microsoft and sony consoles will not come out without a massive increase in graphics, performance. If there isnt that hike, whats the point in bringing something new out?

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Video games are becoming too big. I mean, the market has been growing steadily. In order to cater to this big audience, the next consoles must be cheaper. Not everyone is willing to take on a "five hundred ninety nine" dolars for a hobby. Just look at how much sony has lost over the ps3. Yes, it's a wonderful console, but I couldn't even dream of getting it in the first years. Anyone with the capability to get something like the ps3 at launch, was better going for a PC.

If game console designers are smart, they should learn from the mistakes of this generation: no crappy graphics like the wii, no big price like the ps3, and no goddamn hardware fails like the xbox360.

Well in all honesty, the graphics on the Wii weren't as bad as people say. I mean, games like Metroid Prime 3 could stand up to something on other consoles. It's just most developers were too lazy to figure out how to find shortcuts like they are doing on other consoles.