Nintendo toolchain is "fighting us every step of the way"

[heartgold]

Software quality will undoubtedly improve over the coming months, but with Microsoft and Sony looking to launch their own next-gen consoles within the year, time is not exactly on Nintendo's side. One developer working on a key AAA franchise port told us anonymously that the Nintendo toolchain is "fighting us every step of the way", suggesting that plenty of work still needs to be done in getting development workflow up to scratch. Will the tools improve in time? Will publishers have the time and the financial incentive to stick with it?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-nintendo-wii-u-review

Which seems to backup this post from wsippel over on neogaf that he posted months ago.

An IDE is the environment you develop software in. The most common IDEs are Visual Studio (Microsoft), Xcode (Apple) and Eclipse (open source). A toolchain is basically a set of applications to translate source code to something the machine actually understands and consists of compilers, linkers, assemblers, build systems, debuggers, profilers and the like (often hidden behind or part of an IDE). The most common toolchains are the one integrated in Visual Studio, the one integrated in Xcode, and the stand alone GNU toolchain (open source). For Wii U, Nintendo decided to go with the GHS MULTI IDE and toolchain, a rather exotic and expensive suite that is typically used in high reliability, high security embedded development (like medical, industrial and military applications). It's simply not a familiar environment for game developers, most of which most likely never even heard of GHS, which means that it requires additional training and education

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38426144&postcount=705

If true, then we know why ports are running worst than the PS3/x360 counterparts because devs haven't fully understood how to utilise the Wii U hardware to its potential and Nintendo going for an unfamiliar route.

 

[Hadrian]

If true, then we know why ports are running worst than the PS3/x36 counterparts

We know why, publishers haven't given the developers as much time as the original versions, shit some PS3 versions don't run as well as the 360 titles and that console has been out for years now.

It's funny that the anonymous developers are the ones saying this but named (and noticeable) developers are saying the opposite.

 

[heartgold]

We know why, publishers haven't given the developers as much time as the original versions, shit some PS3 versions don't run as well as the 360 titles and that console has been out for years now.

It's funny that the anonymous developers are the ones saying this but named (and noticeable) developers are saying the opposite.

Absolutely, lack of optimisation. No extra AA or higher texture quality. Just a simple quick port which results in downgraded performance.

Just wait for Nintendo to produce the next metroid, zelda and mario galaxy 3 to showcase the graphics and using that modern GPU which devs haven't taken any advantage of.

You have twice memory capacity, a modern GPU architecture, more cache, framebuffer, (32MB edram) and newer tri core OoOE CPU. Mario Galaxy looks stunning on the weak Wii, Nintendo magic will be shown on the Wii U too.

 

[Deleted_171835]

No, no no. The real reason is that the Wii U isn't a next-gen console but a pathetic piece of junk weaker than the PS360. ;o;

But seriously, devs just need more time to get accustomed with the hardware. You don't exactly judge a console based on launch games.

 

[naved.islam14]

I'm with Nintendo all the way, they're like a Phoenix, they dig they're own grave but they come back even stronger.

 

[Foxi4]

Absolutely, lack of optimisation. No extra AA or higher texture quality. Just a simple quick port which results in downgraded performance.

Just wait for Nintendo to produce the next metroid, zelda and mario galaxy 3 to showcase the graphics and using that modern GPU which devs haven't taken any advantage of.

You have twice memory capacity, a modern GPU architecture, more cache, framebuffer, (32MB edram) and newer tri core OoOE CPU. Mario Galaxy looks stunning on the weak Wii, Nintendo magic will be shown on the Wii U too.

So here's a better idea - wait for Bayonetta 2 rather than daydream.

 

[Gahars]

It's so weak, they should call it the Wii Useless! Ha ha h-

Whoa. Think I was channeling my inner-Valwin for a second there.

 

[shakirmoledina]

It's so weak, they should call it the Wii Useless! Ha ha h-

Whoa. Think I was channeling my inner-Valwin for a second there.

valwin would be proud

When windows 8 came out, everyone hated it. You gotta get used to a software or tool to progress really. Can't live in the past; IT is an industry that is ever improving and rapidly too.

 

[chyyran]

How much of an effect does learning a new IDE cause anyways? Learning an IDE is not like learning a language, you just have to know where the menus are and whatnot, it really shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[FAST6191]

In some ways I can get behind that statement, at other points I remember the amount of stunningly stupid things I have seen done in game development (and I do not even play around in debuggers and with assembly that much) so if this new IDE and such forces a measure of bounds checking, type checking and other such niceties that modern languages possess (that the C/C++ world kind of lacks by default) I can get behind it (save for any cracks that might not happen).
Hopefully there is a hidden compiler mode/set of options that allow those that actually know what they are doing to employ all the tricks, that said those people seem to be fairly few and far between.

Now if the new IDE failed to interface with the standard CMS/revision control software and 3d modelling stuff I would be more inclined to raise an eyebrow.

 

[ferofax]

Why do I get the feeling that these are devs who are just initially resistant to change in their comfort zones? Give it time, and raise the issues to Nintendo instead of publicizing it. If Nintendo's serious about helping third party developers, then they should be more than willing to help out with revising the dev tools to suit whatever needs the devs may have.

 

[Bobbyloujo]

Man, all these Wii U posts are so grim. Isn't there anything positive to say about the console?

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I'm with Nintendo all the way, they're like a Phoenix, they dig they're own grave but they come back even stronger.

And you fucking hate them if you're in the X-Men.

 

[Qtis]

Man, all these Wii U posts are so grim. Isn't there anything positive to say about the console?

A lot has been said as positive for the Wii U, but the problem with the Wii U is the comparison to the PS3/360 which have been the only HD consoles so far. If the games for the new console look worse than those of the older consoles, there has to be an issue somewhere. Thus people try to find out what is "wrong" (= possible issues).

We'll just have to wait a few years for people to get used to something new. The Wii U SDK seems to be harder to use than the previous one :3

 

[Mantis41]

This is a well rounded article. Struth!!
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/11/mass-effect-3-on-xbox-360-vs-ps3-vs-wii-u/

 

[Taleweaver]

Off topic but...

I accidentally read this thread title as "Nintendo cooltrain is fighting us every step of the way".

Now I can't get it unstuck.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

No, no no. The real reason is that the Wii U isn't a next-gen console but a pathetic piece of junk weaker than the PS360. ;o;

But seriously, devs just need more time to get accustomed with the hardware. You don't exactly judge a console based on launch games.

I know that's a joke, but some people are actually serious about that, and I never did understand why. Next Gen isn't based on the specs of a system, at all. If this came out after the Wii and is a new console, then it's next gen. Some people are just stupid.