Hacking Debate - Grabbing files from Nintendo's servers illegal?

[WiiUBricker]

This thread aims to be a continuation of a debate tueidj and I started in the ModMii thread. To keep the ModMii thread on-topic Xflak asked to continiue the debate in another thread, and here it is.

This post explains the situation:

Spoiler

I agree that paying for free software is not really smart. But I'm just sayin, legally the scam notice is a misinformation, regardless whether it's open source or not. All that matters is the license. And by the way, you don't need to get bushings approval since ModMii behaves basically like a wget command. You also don't need Nintendos approval for letting the NUS downloader grab some files from their servers

Again, this is just a suggestion to make ModMii a bit more professional looking. You don't have to if you don't want

It never says anything regarding legality in the scam warning AFAIK. It just says if you pay for it, you have been scammed. 100% true. If you sell something that is free, you ARE scamming. It doesn't matter if you have the legal right to sell it or not, you are still performing a scam selling something that can be obtained for free. So the scam warning is perfectly correct.

Geez, no offense, but you have no idea, really. Ever heard of commercial GPL? According to your logic all professionial sites that sell GPL software like http://anything-digital.com/ or http://www.joomace.net/ or any of the thousand other sites are all scam sites. That's obviously BS. People are deliberately buying commercial GPL software although they know that you can get it for free simply because it's the source they trust. If you want to build a site and need a commercial extension, would you download it from some shady sources or pay for it and get the file directly from the source?

You also don't need Nintendos approval for letting the NUS downloader grab some files from their servers

Rubbish. Just because you can take something, doesn't mean you have permission. There are no text pages on NUS saying the files are free to download and it is clearly meant to be accessed by their software running on a wii. Ever heard the phrase "All Rights Reserved"? That means the creator doesn't give permission for you to do anything with their creation and unless stated otherwise it applies to all copyright material, including the content on NUS.

Wait, so are you basically saying that Wiibrew hosts information and provides a link to an illegal tool?

http://nus.cdn.c.sho...025000/00000000
Whoops, did I just post an illegal link?

We will probably get nowhere with this thread, but I feel like to continue this debate anyway, especially when a knowledgeable guy like tueidj claims that something essential in the Wii scene like optaining files from NUS is illegal when it's technically not. Feel free to post your input if you have anything to say regarding this debate. Keep it civil, no flame please

 

[Ace]

Honestly, I think one of the major reasons it's not considered illegal is because the files are virtually unusable without a console, and that the files are provided for free by Nintendo's servers.

In actuality, I'd say it's closer to a legally grey area, because the software made to download gives potential to run unauthorized code.

 

[giantpune]

if you park your car somewhere and leave the keys in it and you are not watching, is it wrong for me to go joyriding in it? even if you never told me not to take it? is this your arguement? because they never said not to take something that surely they must think its ok to do it.

 

[tueidj]

What is there to debate? You didn't refute my argument that the files on NUS are copyright Nintendo and since there are no terms of use the default "All Rights Reserved" clause applies.

 

[pokefloote]

I think it's fine. We'd be getting these files for free from the same exact source anyway.

 

[tbgtbg]

If there's anything wrong with downloading it, it shouldn't be downloadable via a simple link from the official source. If Nintendo has a problem with that, they should change things on their end. If anyone else has a problem with it, they should mind their own business. If Nintendo doesn't care enough to secure things, why should you care who's doing what with what.

It's not like this is an exploit or oversight like sometimes lets you get free stuff for a few days until the loophole is found and closed. These files have been available for years, I don't see why anyone needs to get indignant on Nintendo's behalf when they clearly don't give enough of a shit to change their setup.

if you park your car somewhere and leave the keys in it and you are not watching, is it wrong for me to go joyriding in it? even if you never told me not to take it? is this your arguement? because they never said not to take something that surely they must think its ok to do it.

If I take your car, I'm denying you the use of it. If I download a file from Nintendo's server, I'm not denying anyone the use of anything. It's more like if you park your car in the street, and I take a picture of it. Don't want me taking a picture? Put your car in a garage.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Note that this post should not be taken as an argument either way, it is just a question.

Why would it make a difference if you download them on your Wii by clicking Download from NUS on Dop-Mii, or by clicking Update in settings?

 

[WiiUBricker]

if you park your car somewhere and leave the keys in it and you are not watching, is it wrong for me to go joyriding in it? even if you never told me not to take it? is this your arguement? because they never said not to take something that surely they must think its ok to do it.

Not sure if I got your cryptic post, but what exactly does a car with keys in it have anything to do with NUS? You can't really compare a car with a server here.

What is there to debate? You didn't refute my argument that the files on NUS are copyright Nintendo and since there are no terms of use the default "All Rights Reserved" clause applies.

Then here goes my question again. Do you think Wiibrew is providing information and a link to an illegal tool? Do you think downloading this file is illegal? Please answer the questions, thanks

 

[megazig]

it is not on the server to prohibit connections. it is still illegal to do so if not authorised

and why don't you answer his question first. or are you just trying to stir up shit instead of contribute anymore to your original point?

 

[tueidj]

Tools aren't illegal unless they're expressly prohibited for some reason. That app does nothing more than a browser could do if you manually entered the URL, which leads to the next answer: yes, by accessing content that you don't have explicit permission to use you are potentially breaking the law and giving the owner the possibility of prosecution.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Tools aren't illegal unless they're expressly prohibited for some reason. That app does nothing more than a browser could do if you manually entered the URL, which leads to the next answer: yes, by accessing content that you don't have explicit permission to use you are potentially breaking the law and giving the owner the possibility of prosecution.

So you are saying it's similar to the reason things like utorrent are legal?

 

[Shano56]

if you park your car somewhere and leave the keys in it and you are not watching, is it wrong for me to go joyriding in it? even if you never told me not to take it? is this your arguement? because they never said not to take something that surely they must think its ok to do it.

haha your metaphor reminds me of when sonys lawyers "demanded the return of their private keys" or whatever bullsht they were saying when geohot posted them online.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Tools aren't illegal unless they're expressly prohibited for some reason. That app does nothing more than a browser could do if you manually entered the URL, which leads to the next answer: yes, by accessing content that you don't have explicit permission to use you are potentially breaking the law and giving the owner the possibility of prosecution.

Ok, then what's the difference between this file and a copyrighted image from Nintendos servers? Aren't both just public accessible URLs?

 

[megazig]

they put a link up publicly for the image to be viewed

 

[WiiUBricker]

Tools aren't illegal unless they're expressly prohibited for some reason. That app does nothing more than a browser could do if you manually entered the URL, which leads to the next answer: yes, by accessing content that you don't have explicit permission to use you are potentially breaking the law and giving the owner the possibility of prosecution.

So you are saying it's similar to the reason things like utorrent are legal?

Well, utorrent is a tool that wasn't specifically written to obtain files from one specific server, unlike NUSD.

 

[andrewhan4]

The files on Nintendo's servers are part of the Wii Network Services, as they are delivered to your Wii via the internet:

From Wii Network Services EULA (http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/support/end_user_licence_agreement_eula_8270.html):

“Wii Network Services” means the Wii Shop Channel Service, WiiConnect24, and any related services and material delivered to your Wii console over the Internet, including but not limited to Content, Products and Wii Points.


You have no license to access the Wii Network Services on anything other than your Wii Console:

The Wii Network Services is licensed to you for use on your Wii console only in the E.E.A. or Switzerland, depending on where you live.


I'm not in the legal profession but based on this I'd say downloading stuff from Nintendo's servers on anything other than your Wii is not allowed

 

[WiiUBricker]

The files on Nintendo's servers are part of the Wii Network Services, as they are delivered to your Wii via the internet:

From Wii Network Services EULA (http://www.nintendo...._eula_8270.html):

“Wii Network Services” means the Wii Shop Channel Service, WiiConnect24, and any related services and material delivered to your Wii console over the Internet, including but not limited to Content, Products and Wii Points.


You have no license to access the Wii Network Services on anything other than your Wii Console:

The Wii Network Services is licensed to you for use on your Wii console only in the E.E.A. or Switzerland, depending on where you live.


I'm not in the legal profession but based on this I'd say downloading stuff from Nintendo's servers on anything other than your Wii is not allowed

That's interesting. What about a NUS Downloader compiled for Wii? Technically you'd download files with a Wii.

 

[SifJar]

Tools aren't illegal unless they're expressly prohibited for some reason. That app does nothing more than a browser could do if you manually entered the URL, which leads to the next answer: yes, by accessing content that you don't have explicit permission to use you are potentially breaking the law and giving the owner the possibility of prosecution.

So you are saying it's similar to the reason things like utorrent are legal?

Well, utorrent is a tool that wasn't specifically written to obtain files from one specific server, unlike NUSD.

Irrelevant. NUSD does the same a browser would do - it just is quite specific. uTorrent does not do the same as a browser (let's ignore the fact Opera can download torrents - it's not relevant to the discussion) would do seeing as it is P2P, rather than from a central server, so it's a bit of a different situation from the way I see it.

Now knowing you @WiiBricker you will bring this back to GPL and say I haven't a clue what I'm talking about.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Oh and by the way, here in Germany Nintendo's EULA is NOT valid because in order for an EULA to become valid you have to sign a written agreement before the purchase. If you agree to the EULA after you purchased the product, it's not valid. That's why the whole 3DS EULA is just hot air.

 

[pwsincd]

how are/were the addressses at NUS of the ninty files obtained ? Meaning are/were they public knowledge or have they been obtained without nintendos knowing . idk and maybe that is the real issue.