Why does the entertainment industry not get it!!!!! (rant about regional locks..and learning German)

newo · Feb 4, 2023

Pitchblack is a classic!

binkinator · Feb 5, 2023

Your Why learn German segue was the best! I always assumed Dutch could mostly understand Deutsch. Turns out they’re all cheating and learning it in school! Sneaky. I also found it interesting that you think in English. I studied Arabic in the mid-nineties and it was a struggle to think in the second language and I frequently defaulted to thinking in English and trying to translate (and mixing a few words in when I didn’t know and people let it slide because they understood.)

As for your primary rant…IMO the studios got paid many times over since initial broadcast in the 90’s. Apparently all the work I’ve done over the decades was one payment and one payment only. Media companies are the real pirates. Not us.

Archerite · Feb 5, 2023

binkinator said:
Your Why learn German segue was the best! I always assumed Dutch could mostly understand Deutsch. Turns out they’re all cheating and learning it in school! Sneaky. I also found it interesting that you think in English. I studied Arabic in the mid-nineties and it was a struggle to think in the second language and I frequently defaulted to thinking in English and trying to translate (and mixing a few words in when I didn’t know and people let it slide because they understood.)

Thanks!

I hope you did not assumed that because the words "Dutch" and "Deutsch" are kind of similar...right? But no, the languages are different enough to make it hard to understand them easily. And as said I never even learned it in school! Only television series that had German audio and dutch subtitles. We can however understand our Belgium neighbors very easily if they speak in Flemish Dutch. Purely based on the language I would consider it a dialect of standard Dutch, but very different countries ofcourse. And in most cases it's even possible to understand "Afrikaans" to some degree, but the pronunciation could be different that it makes no sense to me as a Dutch person.

From what I know about learning languages (mostly from youtube video's about the subject) is that it works best if you expose yourself to it. Either go to that country for a while or watch it a lot. I guess that is a little easier with English as it's literately everywhere around the world. And I assume that is a bit more challenging when learning Arabic.
And "thinking in English" is just something that happened over the years of watching movies, series, playing games etc... And if in addition you also read a lot of it every day makes it easier to. Maybe it's just my weird brain...hahaha

binkinator said:
As for your primary rant…IMO the studios got paid many times over since initial broadcast in the 90’s. Apparently all the work I’ve done over the decades was one payment and one payment only. Media companies are the real pirates. Not us.

That's also kind of true. I don't mind paying a few euro's for the convenience of "on demand" services if they have what I want to see. What I do mind a really big lot is that content is removed after a while! And after that it's NOWHERE to watch legally! Also wanted to re-watch "that 70's show" and "big bang theory" but at the time they were just removed!

There should be a legal option that has EVERYTHING and NEVER removes something that get's on it! I would even pay 50 euro per month for it! Offer cheaper subscriptions and add commercials or something. Not that this will ever happen but it would be really nice, right?

binkinator · Feb 5, 2023

Archerite said:
Thanks! I hope you did not assumed that because the words "Dutch" and "Deutsch" are kind of similar...right? But no, the languages are different enough to make it hard to understand them easily. And as said I never even learned it in school! Only television series that had German audio and dutch subtitles. We can however understand our Belgium neighbors very easily if they speak in Flemish Dutch. Purely based on the language I would consider it a dialect of standard Dutch, but very different countries ofcourse. And in most cases it's even possible to understand "Afrikaans" to some degree, but the pronunciation could be different that it makes no sense to me as a Dutch person.

From what I know about learning languages (mostly from youtube video's about the subject) is that it works best if you expose yourself to it. Either go to that country for a while or watch it a lot. I guess that is a little easier with English as it's literately everywhere around the world. And I assume that is a bit more challenging when learning Arabic.
And "thinking in English" is just something that happened over the years of watching movies, series, playing games etc... And if in addition you also read a lot of it every day makes it easier to. Maybe it's just my weird brain...hahaha

That's also kind of true. I don't mind paying a few euro's for the convenience of "on demand" services if they have what I want to see. What I do mind a really big lot is that content is removed after a while! And after that it's NOWHERE to watch legally! Also wanted to re-watch "that 70's show" and "big bang theory" but at the time they were just removed!

There should be a legal option that has EVERYTHING and NEVER removes something that get's on it! I would even pay 50 euro per month for it! Offer cheaper subscriptions and add commercials or something. Not that this will ever happen but it would be really nice, right?

One day movies will move into the realm that music is today. Today I can listen to any Elvis Presley song at any time without any issues whatsoever. It is commodity. Charging people to view an episode of a TV show that was produced in the 90s is beyond ridiculous. Especially considering the people charging likely had nothing to do with the original show. Just milking a cash cow.

Slluxx · Feb 6, 2023

WHY not allow a person from a neighboring country to subscribe!

Licenses & Laws. RTL does not just exist in germany but many countries and in most of the european counties you need a broadcasting license, which is absurdly expensive. You are so angry about the situation that you completely overlook the absolute obvious: if they could make more money by allowing you to subscribe, they would.

However a lot of times its not as easy as it seems and is also attached to cost and risk. Cobra 11 (afaik) is one of the shows not translated to a different language, and thus the potential gains from other countries would possibly be way too small to even attempt to get it running there. Companies still have to follow the law in other countries and cant just start broadcasting to their hearts content. It sucks, i know. I dont want to protect the old-school media either - they do a lot of wrong, however i am sure the issue here is more likely the laws of your country, the language barrier and high risk because of a therefore low return margin coupled with high cost to even start broadcasting.

Archerite · Feb 6, 2023

Slluxx said:
Licenses & Laws. RTL does not just exist in germany but many countries and in most of the european counties you need a broadcasting license, which is absurdly expensive. You are so angry about the situation that you completely overlook the absolute obvious: if they could make more money by allowing you to subscribe, they would.

However a lot of times its not as easy as it seems and is also attached to cost and risk. Cobra 11 (afaik) is one of the shows not translated to a different language, and thus the potential gains from other countries would possibly be way too small to even attempt to get it running there. Companies still have to follow the law in other countries and cant just start broadcasting to their hearts content. It sucks, i know. I dont want to protect the old-school media either - they do a lot of wrong, however i am sure the issue here is more likely the laws of your country, the language barrier and high risk because of a therefore low return margin coupled with high cost to even start broadcasting.

Well...I am not really "angry" but more irritated and annoyed. I do know there is copyright laws and broadcast rights etc...but my rant was more about why this is still a thing. It's true that RTL is not only in Germany and we have it here in the Netherlands too known as "RTL4" and I think they have taken over some other commercial channels, but not really sure.

Please don't see my reply as an attack or something, no offense was intended at all. I do appreciate another view on the issue

Since I was trying to subscribing on the German RTL+ I fully expected there would not be any translated or subtitled version of Cobra 11. That is actually the entire reason for me to want to subscribe...to watch it without subtitles in it's native German to learn from. On the other hand I know for a fact that at least subtitles exist for Cobra 11 in Dutch because it has been broadcasted her on national TV for as long as I remember. And also for a while there was a selection of seasons on the local "Videoland" streaming service. But I checked and it's no longer available.

I have been researching the option of using a VPN provider to try if I can subscribe through that. I am not asking for translations, the language barrier is there...but since in my specific case that is the entire point it's not an issue! To RTL+ I would just be "another subscriber" and they don't have to do anything else than allowing me to do so. at least that's how I see it.

As for the learning the German language through Duolingo...I am at Unit 6 already

(out of 140). Also Tried other languages but I am not understanding those nearly as fast as German. I think it's also better to focus on German first and look at the others after a few months. Really cool that there is even a Klingon course on there, hahaha :rofl2:

Thanks.

Archerite · Feb 6, 2023

Just a little update....IT WORKS NOW!

Because I am just way to curious for my own good I just had to at least attempt it through a VPN! So I picked one that I had seen on youtube as a sponsor SO MANY TIMES....guess it worked then.

Then I installed the app on my phone and went through the process of login in and activating the VPN with Germany as the selected country. With the active VPN I logged in on the RTL+ website and....BAM!!! I was finally able to subscribe and I used paypal as the payment option....and it all went through.

At first I tried starting the stream on my mobile in the browser through the VPN. It was kind of slow but not too much and the video started playing for a few seconds and then it froze unfortunately. But just as a test I tried it on my PC without the VPN since I should now have an upgraded account. And it Totally Works!

I don't consider this piracy or something like that since I AM actually paying for it. It's even mentioned during registering that subscribing is only possible from Germany, Switzerland and Lichtenstein because of licensing rules. But also...that for some content it would be possible to stream from other countries in the EU. Only not for their Live TV streams. That's fine with me.

I hope I don't break any site rules here by telling this....if so I am really sorry.

Watching the first episode now! The actors that I know from the later seasons look REALLY young obviously, hahaha

KleinesSinchen · Feb 7, 2023

"RTL+"…… The TV station originally had this name… guess how confused I got, when this streaming stuff launched.
I've never paid a cent for streaming services because I do not want to rent access and finally keep nothing when unsubscribing.
The regional lockout you described is another reason for staying away from DRM infected media.

That said, what RTL+ has to offer (from what I've seen involuntarily in commercials), they would have to pay me a lot compensation for pain and suffering if they want me to watch this.
Cobra 11… I've never seen it. Trailers have been enough to keep me away, but if I wanted it: The complete series is available on DVD, albeit too expensive.
Primarily old series (or old seasons of long running series) should really be pressed on Blu-Ray discs in SD quality. This way a complete season fits on one disc taking roughly 20 minutes to dump everything to the PC.
====

The Duolingo concept is very interesting, I tried using it, but after a few minutes, the application demanded creating an account and wouldn't continue → Deleted.

Archerite · Feb 7, 2023

KleinesSinchen said:
"RTL+"…… The TV station originally had this name… guess how confused I got, when this streaming stuff launched.
I've never paid a cent for streaming services because I do not want to rent access and finally keep nothing when unsubscribing.
The regional lockout you described is another reason for staying away from DRM infected media.

The regional lockout really stinks yeah...but at least from my experience it's only the initial upgrade to premium that had to be done from Germany. I could create my account without problems....except from having to use google translate a few times to learn some new words I did not fully understand, hahaha.

KleinesSinchen said:
That said, what RTL+ has to offer (from what I've seen involuntarily in commercials), they would have to pay me a lot compensation for pain and suffering if they want me to watch this.
Cobra 11… I've never seen it. Trailers have been enough to keep me away, but if I wanted it: The complete series is available on DVD, albeit too expensive.
Primarily old series (or old seasons of long running series) should really be pressed on Blu-Ray discs in SD quality. This way a complete season fits on one disc taking roughly 20 minutes to dump everything to the PC.

As I said my way of improving my English was through watching TV and movies without subtitles, which I think helped improve my understanding a lot! I have no idea what other content RTL+ Premium has to offer that might interest me. At least there are 26 seasons of Cobra 11 to keep me busy for a few months I think.

Watching the stream on TV is even more "fun"...as I can't use the official app! I use a FireTV stick for a few months now and there is an app from RTL+ for the FireTV...but it's shown as "unavailable"! But since there is an "internet" app that's basically a browser I tried it and it actually works! Only issue is that I need to reload the page after every episode for some reason. it does "autoplay" to the next one...but it has buffering issues. Reloading solves it. But at least I can watch it now.

The DVD set's are indeed WAY to expensive! To be honest I do not even know why I like Cobra 11 but I think it's because my dad watched it...so I watched it too I guess. I did say it's old right?

It not that I like the crime or police aspect of the series so much, but more how they always seem to crash at least 2 or more expensive car's per episode! Hahaha. And the way one of the lead characters, Semir Gerkhan, always get's in trouble and gets rescued by his partner. And the discussions and tension when things go wrong.

Not sure if RTL+ has it...but it's the same with another old German spoken series "Commissar Rex". Also a police series but in this case with a german shepard dog that creates funny situations as well. It was really funny that when I was in Germany for work 3 years ago this series was on TV here actually. And while I mostly spoke English when I was in Tübingen I did somehow pickup the way the people spoke. And when I heard the series on TV I noticed how it sounded just a bit different with certain words. After looking it up I found out that Comissar Rex comes from Austria and is thus spoken in a different dialect.

KleinesSinchen said:
The Duolingo concept is very interesting, I tried using it, but after a few minutes, the application demanded creating an account and wouldn't continue → Deleted.

It's true that it requires an account and if you really want to use it you even require to pay for it, which I did. I looked at a few options to start learning including iTalki or similar things. Those are at the cheapest about 10 euro an hour! I understand why ofcourse...your hiring a person to speak with you. The skill level of that person determines the price and I have seen up to 30 euro an hour...maybe more! Maybe I'll try it later when I have a more basic conversation level, for now I chose the cheaper duolingo option.
It does actually work though! I learned a couple of words I did not know and how to combine some of the words...still don't get the die,das,der etc.... :rofl2:

...not sure what it's really called as duolingo did not tell me yet! I did also watch a couple of "Easy German" youtube video's but I think those are more for improving German skills than to learn the basics. I can't understand half of it...unless they happen to speak English in of their video's. But still...from what I DO understand and the context and how people respond...and the WAY TO FAST going subtitles on the bottom I did learn a few new words from them too.

KleinesSinchen · Feb 8, 2023

Archerite said:
still don't get the die,das,der etc..

Want a lesson in German language?

Artikel, grammatical gender/genus.
Der → Male
Die → Female
Das → Neutrum

I wouldn't be able to tell how assign the correct Artikel to a substantive. I just know and feel which goes where. One would think "der" and "die" could only apply to living creatures having a gender/sex and apply "das" on things. Grammatical gender isn't directly connected with actual gender/sex. I know I'm gonna confuse you here… since it is confusing and doesn't make sense.

Der Mann → Man: male. Fine!
Die Frau → Woman: female. Also fine!
Der Junge → Boy: male. Still good, isn't it?
Das Mädchen¹ → Girl: neutrum. WTF? Since when is a girl not female?
======

Sometimes for animals it works quite nicely.
Die Kuh → Cow, female
Der Stier → Bull, male
Das Rind → neutrum, not defining the sex of the animal. Both, a cow and a bull are "Rinder"

Other times it doesn't make sense:
Der Rüde → male dog
Die Hündin → female dog
Der Hund → mostly used for male dog, but sometimes Hund is including the female form

The other way round:
Die Katze → Cat, mostly used for female individual, sometimes general animal species "cat"
Der Kater → only male→ tomcat
==========

Going to not living stuff, to things. We would want to assign "das" on all of them. Apparently a door (die Tür) is female, a table (der Tisch) is male… while a car (das Auto) is neutrum.
Again, don't take gender/genus to literally. Grammatical genus is not real life gender/sex.

Easier is the plural form. No matter what grammatical genus a word has, it is always "die" in plural. There is no grammatical gender in plural.
Die Frauen, die Männer, die Mädchen, die Kühe, die Kater…

__________________________
¹ Mädchen is actually a diminutive form. The suffix "-chen" makes things smaller or cute. While the word "Mädchen" lost the diminutive meaning and is not only used for baby girls but generally for female underage persons (sometimes even for adult women), originally the word was "Die Maid" where the grammatical genus is still correct. You might make some Germans struggle to even understand what you are talking about when you say "Ich habe gestern drei Maiden getroffen." (I've met three girls yesterday).
The original word sounds completely antiquated and is more or less not used anymore.

On the pro side: all words ending on diminutive "-chen" go with "das"

Archerite · Feb 9, 2023

KleinesSinchen said:
Want a lesson in German language?

Artikel, grammatical gender/genus.
Der → Male
Die → Female
Das → Neutrum

I wouldn't be able to tell how assign the correct Artikel to a substantive. I just know and feel which goes where. One would think "der" and "die" could only apply to living creatures having a gender/sex and apply "das" on things. Grammatical gender isn't directly connected with actual gender/sex. I know I'm gonna confuse you here… since it is confusing and doesn't make sense.

Der Mann → Man: male. Fine!
Die Frau → Woman: female. Also fine!
Der Junge → Boy: male. Still good, isn't it?
Das Mädchen¹ → Girl: neutrum. WTF? Since when is a girl not female?
======

Sometimes for animals it works quite nicely.
Die Kuh → Cow, female
Der Stier → Bull, male
Das Rind → neutrum, not defining the sex of the animal. Both, a cow and a bull are "Rinder"

Other times it doesn't make sense:
Der Rüde → male dog
Die Hündin → female dog
Der Hund → mostly used for male dog, but sometimes Hund is including the female form

The other way round:
Die Katze → Cat, mostly used for female individual, sometimes general animal species "cat"
Der Kater → only male→ tomcat
==========

Going to not living stuff, to things. We would want to assign "das" on all of them. Apparently a door (die Tür) is female, a table (der Tisch) is male… while a car (das auto) is neutrum.
Again, don't take gender/genus to literally. Grammatical genus is not real life gender/sex.

Easier is the plural form. No matter what grammatical genus a word has, it is always "die" in plural. There is no grammatical gender in plural.
Die Frauen, die Männer, die Mädchen, die Kühe, die Kater…

__________________________
¹ Mädchen is actually a diminutive form. The suffix "-chen" makes things smaller or cute. While the word "Mädchen" lost the diminutive meaning and is not only used for baby girls but generally for female underage persons (sometimes even for adult women), originally the word was "Die Maid" where the grammatical genus is still correct. You might make some Germans struggle to even understand what you are talking about when you say "Ich habe gestern drei Maiden getroffen." (I've met three girls yesterday).
The original word sounds completely antiquated and is more or less not used anymore.

On the pro side: all words ending on diminutive "-chen" go with "das"

Thanks for the extra lesson

Realistically I have only been learning for about 2 weeks so it's not that surprising I don't get it. But I do notice that it really helps that my native language is Dutch and some words sound similar enough with the same meaning that I understand them. There are of course also the "false friends" that sound nearly or exactly the same but mean something very different!

It will probably make sense at some point...hopefully.

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Why does the entertainment industry not get it!!!!! (rant about regional locks..and learning German)

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newo

binkinator

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