There's this new trend nintendo's been hopping on and i hate it so fucking much

Metroid isn't dead, did you miss the Metroid 4 announcement?

I haven't played Melee that much (not a fan because everyone who plays it is too damn good and I have no chance to win) but Smash 4 seems pretty fast paced to me. And the original Smash was pretty slow paced so Melee is the exception there rather than the norm.
And who gives a shit about Brawl anymore? You should be comparing it to Smash 4. No one plays Brawl.

I hope Nintendo brings back proper dungeons with BotW 2, I really do. I liked some of the puzzle aspects of the BotW dungeons, just wish there was more of it. And I really hope that the BotW formula doesn't become the new norm for Zelda. There are good things about it, and they can blend some of the new with some of the old, that's fine, but don't get rid of the old entirely.

Not sure what you're on about with the Switch. Extra functionality? Every Nintendo console has had its own gimmick, and the Switch's gimmick is that of being both a handheld and a home console. Nothing wrong with that. It still has the motion controls the Wii introduced, it still has the NFC reader and tablet form factor of the Wii U, they didn't take anything away. It's all there.
The only thing they took away was the secondary screen functionality and that can be argued to be a good thing, as games rarely used it well and often to the detriment of the gameplay experience, a particularly notorious example of this being Star Fox Zero.

@The Real Jdbye
To be honest with you the switch is an enhanced version of the Wii U. The switch lacks alot of power behind it and it taken away some legacy features (Web Browser , MP3 Player)

@64bitmodels
The main problem is they are running out of ideas they been spinning Mario and Zelda around for nearly 30 years. Another thing to think about Nintendo is catering more to "New Fans" versus the old school ones they trying to still target the younger children and etc.. They have to "dumb" down the gameplay to make it much more easier to newer fans

The missing basic functions on the Switch (media player, browser)… I guess this is partially paranoia since such complex applications have been entry points for homebrew more than once. They can easily explain this without mentioning homebrew: Just like with the Wii which did not get the previously planned DVD-player functionality… "People already have enough devices for that."
Even though I personally refuse to get a smartphone, I do know this: A normal phone is much better at playing media files and browsing the web than previous Nintendo consoles. What benefit would a media player/browser on the Switch have if virtually everybody carries a more than capable phone with them all the time?

About the games. I'm not good at playing any Smash Bros game. Just for fun, single player from time to time. So I can't say anything to the Melee vs. Brawl discussion.

In general improving over the previous game with a sequel is not easy:

• If the sequel is just like the previous game people will say: "Rip-off! Just a romhack!"
• If they add many things while keeping the previous things, games might become too big and too complex.
• If they change things it comes to the "Why did they remove 'x' from $GAME? It's not the series I'm used to anymore!"

Nintendo haven't been about power in a long time. Not since the GameCube. And I will agree, that's too bad. The games are still great but in some cases like BotW the game is being noticeably held back by the relatively weak hardware, and it also holds back ports which means that even though the portability is a huge plus and a reason to buy multiplats on the Switch instead of other platforms, a lot of them you wouldn't want to actually PLAY on the Switch. Although, for a handheld, it's still relatively powerful. Modern smartphones have more power, but they also cost like 4 times as much, and no one would buy the Switch if it was $1200.
More powerful hardware would be nothing but a good thing. The games would still be great, we would get more multiplats and the multiplats would run better, and everything would look better. I like the cartoony art style of first party games but I wonder how much better they would look on modern hardware. They might not even take full advantage of more powerful hardware as that art style is not the most demanding to begin with, but at least that means we would have a solid 60 FPS. I've seen some of the stuff people have done with recreating Mario and Zelda in UE4 and it looks amazing. Would be awesome if 1st party games looked that good.

Did the Wii U have a MP3 player? I honestly wasn't even aware. I think there is a Switch homebrew that can play music in the background, for those that really want that. But we all have smartphones these days, so I totally see why they didn't think a web browser was necessary. I never used the web browser on the Wii U for anything other than running exploits anyway. Haven't used the web browser on a console since the Wii... And that was mostly to watch YouTube videos or anime, occasionally playing around with some flash games. It was not a good web browsing experience. Whipping out my phone would be faster anyway than having to close out of the game to launch a browser (as the memory available for applets is so limited, any decent web browser would probably have to run as a regular app, and so wouldn't be able to run alongside a game) and in all likelihood the only thing most people would use it for is exploits. It's a "nice to have" but I can't say I personally miss it. I suppose kids who are too young to have a smartphone yet might get more use out of it than I do, but kids are not the ones asking for this feature. I honestly don't see why anyone else would care about it.

In the end it's a game console. Having video streaming apps for all the popular platforms (Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, Crunchyroll, Twitch, PornHub...) and maybe even a dedicated media player for local media would be nice (especially for families with children where the Wii U might have been their primary way of consuming media but with the Switch you can't do that because no Netflix) but beyond that all I care about is games. Basically every new TV sold now has smart features too so many people already have those features integrated into their TV and eventually everyone will. It used to be the case that game consoles were a do-everything device when it came to media consumption with the PS2 being one of the cheapest ways to get a DVD player back in the day, and same for the PS3 with Bluray, but this is less and less necessary these days with smart TVs being so prevalent. And many of those TVs have web browser functionality as well. Hell, I'm sure Android TV would even let you play media in the background over whatever you're playing. Of course that doesn't solve the handheld side of things and Android TV is not as common as I'd like because you have Tizen and webOS which their respective manufacturers tend to stick with exclusively. Even though those are far inferior in terms of app selection and even types of apps, basically if it's not a video app of some kind you probably won't find it there. But the experience using them is better than Android TV. Anyway, I digress...

I dont need a switch to browse the web. I have something smaller called a phone. Mario kart losts its amazingness after double dash because they starting adding noob friendly gameplay. Dumbing down gameplay is something alot of games have. Its a because of the weak ass noob generation that has invaded video gaming. The noobs get frustrated if the game dont tell them where to go.
Just look how they whine when they get rapped on a first person shooter. Damn modern gaming noobs.

There is definitely something special about Double Dash since it's the only Mario Kart I come back to despite newer entries being out, other than loading up Mario Kart 64 on rare occasions for a bit of nostalgia.

But I would have to disagree with you, @Captain_N. Mario Kart 8 was just as amazing when it came out as Double Dash was when that was new. The assist features and motion controls help make the game more accessible to parents, young children and the disabled and that's not a bad thing. But no one is forcing you to use them. Turn them off and it's no easier than any other Mario Kart game. Except maybe Super Mario Kart and Super Circuit, because those control like ASS. In fact the 200cc mode makes MK8 probably just about the hardest Mario Kart game ever. So if you're after a challenge, play that.

And my favorite feature from Double Dash (dual items) was even added to MK8D. Sadly no dual item boxes though, those were always fun to get. Would be nice to see the unique items per character return although I always used Piranha Plant/Boo so I could get all of them, which almost seems like cheating as it means the other players are stuck with only 2 unique items out of the pool (but I suppose they will get those specific items more frequently)
And making triple shells a character specific item was a bad move as that had traditionally been obtainable by anyone in every previous Mario Kart and is arguably one of the more important items in the game, as they show up frequently enough and you could potentially get them in 2nd place and secure yourself 1st place. So Double Dash isn't perfect either, nothing is. And who would ever pick the koopa troopa? Yay, more green shells. Just what I needed.

My mom got better than me at Double Dash at one point, meanwhile she's awful at all the newer ones. So it's not like those assist features make MK8 easy to play. Just makes it easier to *start* playing.

@The Real Jdbye Don't get me wrong, smash is still much faster than most fighters out there but to say that smash didn't lose most of the movement options found in melee would be just wrong. Lcanceling, wavedashing, and the general movement has either been slower or removed entirely. there are even some glitches in melee that made matches so much more fun to watch- ness's yoyo glitch and thunder jacket for example. Comparing melee to ultimate is a night and day difference, even if ultimate has been the fastest smash game since melee. hell even if they are glitches that doesnt mean they cant be readded into the game. a glitch is a mechanic until the developer says otherwise

So, this is complaints or just frustration? Just want to be sure. Personally, I do enjoy super mario world and bros, but New super mario bros was based off Super mario bros... the first one. Tanky controls? Play the original nes one (or one on super mario all-stars) and compare it to new super mario bros. It's similar cause that's the inspiration.

Smash bros melee vs "the others" to me personally just seem like things the competitive players complain about. Finding a bunch of things that nintendo probably didn't realize was bugs, exploits or glitches like "Shield cancel" or "Wave dash" and other such technical things I still can't do cause I never practiced or played melee that way. I liked melee and had loads of hours clocked in on my original save. But I have more complaints about the others that isn't technical like the competitive folk complain about. Stuff like Lacking single player content, the foot stooling, ledge grabbing priority and online multiplayer.

I can't really say much about mario kart. Only one I remember the most is Mario Kart 64, I find almost all of them hard to enjoy. Racing against cpu in most isn't fun. I'm not sure if it's cause I don't like racing games or just the tracks and physics in mario kart. Sonic sega all star racing transformed on wii u was fun no matter what I was doing. It was hard but fun. Mario Kart just never felt fun unless I played battle mode. The DS had mission mode which was interesting and probably one of the reasons people say is the best of the series despite every mario kart being almost best console seller each generation.

I don't have much to say about zelda games. I haven't played many and some I didn't even like. The first one on nes is just not fun. I shouldn't feel like I need a guide to play it but I do. I feel like that about most games in this series. I accepted that as my creed. Same goes for the second one. Though I find zelda 2 more fun for being 2d side scroller. That's just my favorite genre of game, so i'm biased. I still think is way too difficult. Zelda 3 is good, way up on my list.

Link's awakening seems to be favorite by many, but not mine. Is not a bad game, but I just didn't find it fun or engaging. The plot was boring and so was the characters and exploration or puzzles. The two others, oracle of ages/seasons was a lot of fun on the other hand. Lot more interesting things and actually having zelda and ganon part of the plot with other villians and main characters and more interesting world to explore and be part of. And one of the few I didn't need a guide to finish.

The others like ocarina of time, I played it, it's alright. Majora's mask was very time consuming and confusing. Never played twilight princess, minish cap, or skyward sword. Minish cap i tried on the DSI when it was free to download for the anniversary, didn't find it fun. Last is the breath of the wild, and while I initially didn't find it appealing that it was doing things like having weapon durability, stamina gauge, equipment with stats, and finding shrines... I still hate it. But I did eventually finish it. I had no other games to play and because it was at launch, guess they got me to play it longer than I intended.

I'm not saying that I'm a casual and that's why I enjoy these newer games that is being target as nuances to legacy players. I am a legacy player. I just have a preference and a way of playing the games I like and find it hard to enjoy a completely new game play system. I don't like 3D mario games for the sandboxed "Do these missions for stars" objective. But controlling mario is fun for the acrobatic things he can do. NSMB adds those acrobatics to 2D making it more fun than it was to me.

I don't like most zelda games for the pacing and how long it takes to get from point a to point b, but the puzzles and challenges are stimulating for me. F-Zero is too fast for my liking, It's a what I call a skill game where only people willing to practice to master it will find it fun. I'm not one of them, especially with a racing game. (okay I did with sonic riders) And I don't play metroid prime because is a FPS and not something else like the GBA. Most probably won't read all off this, but just sharing if anyone cares.

also apparently, BOTW runs at 30fps because its a wii u port and the devs didnt bother to optimize the game

concerning the other devices argument: It's just for convenience. if someone can play music on a PS4 while playing a game i see no reason why nintendo should not integrate a similar system. it'd also be nice to have a web browser to look up walkthroughs of game's ive been having trouble with- the wii u and 3ds let me do that. just because your phone can play music and browse the web doesn't mean that the switch shouldnt. Sony had that style of thinking when they killed the vita and it resulted in them leaving the portable gaming market entirely.

Nintendo made a mistake treating the switch as a "all in one device" versus keeping the switch as a handheld and introducing a home console to rival Sony/Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft is running at 100 miles per hour trying to be the best and Nintendo is just slow behind the race. The only thing good the switch has going for itself is the ability to run pirated games

If I couldn't pirate games on the switch I honestly would have never owned one. Too many negatives and hardly any positives from due to them stripping almost everything from the switch and the overpriced games. Sooner or later their most loyal fanbase will turn on them. If I do buy a future Nintendo product it is just to keep it inside the box for an exploit to get more free games.

@Goku1992A pretty harsh but i'd agree for the most part. Only reason i really got a switch was to catch up on all the multiplats ive been missing on the 8th gen and to futureproof myself for the later exclusives/multiplats coming down the line, if any come to switch at all.
When i become old enough to get a job i'll use that money to buy a gaming pc and never ever look back to nintendo or the other competitors. PC gaming is way too appealing to turn down. if i do get a future nintendo console, it'd probably be for the exact same reason you stated, minus the piracy. (i don't think nintendo is horrible enough to stop buying their games entirely. that type of stuff would be reserved for EA or activision or whatever.) don't be too harsh though, they could always bounce back. nintendo needs to step up their game or theyre going to become the next SEGA. Just because they bounced back from the Wii U doesn't mean they can't try anymore.

@64bitmodels Yes but... None of those are intended mechanics. And they only exist because of particular quirks in Melee, which would probably be hard to reproduce exactly in a different engine. And if they couldn't be reproduced exactly, people would complain about that too. If it doesn't work the exact same way it does in Melee then it's automatically worse because Melee players will never be satisfied with anything other than Melee. Just because it doesn't have the particular mechanics Melee has doesn't make it worse though, there are a lot of other good things about Smash 4 that Melee doesn't have. It's just different. And it's always going to be different, because you can't have progress without changing things, and you can't have a sequel that's exactly the same thing as its predecessor (unless you're EA ). Which means that having two distinct fan bases and separate competitions for each is probably unavoidable. Melee players are always going to prefer Melee and then there are new players who get into Smash 4 and prefer that instead. And there are some that play both competitively, but that's far less common. And when Smash 5 comes out, who knows, maybe we'll have a third fan base, it depends on if people develop their own mechanics that only work in Smash 4 (they may already have, IDK)

I have a good enough idea of how Melee players think that I feel pretty confident in saying that even if Nintendo released a Melee remaster or remake, people would STILL prefer the original. That's just how that fanbase is.

ok look your points are great but can you please stop talking like we're in 2016 lol
ultimate has been out for 2 years, don't know why youre making comparison to smash 4

@Sonic Angel Knight I think you are misusing the word "hate" there because if you really hate BotW I really doubt you would sit through 60+ hours of it.

@64bitmodels BotW has higher resolution textures and somewhat different shading on the Switch version which might be a reason why it doesn't run better than the Wii U version. And they are indeed two very different platforms so it's possible it has just not been optimized well for the Switch. Saying that, the Switch is not THAT much more powerful than the Wii U, it's kinda like GameCube vs Wii. It's not significant enough to really allow demanding games that just could not work on the Wii U. But it's strange that it lags pretty much exactly the same amount on both systems, but not always in the same areas... I would have expected some noticeable improvement.

@Goku1992A I strongly disagree with that for one simple reason. Handhelds were traditionally always limited to lesser or cheaper versions of games, even when storage got big enough to hold full console-length and quality releases, handheld games were still more cheaply made, simplified versions that just weren't as fun or immersive as their home console counterparts. With the Switch this is no longer the case and it's the first time you can have a full length, console quality Zelda and Mario game on the go and that is just awesome. You still get the simplified handheld type games as well and that is fine, but every single 1st party release apart from some puzzle games and mobile trash has been console-quality and that means Nintendo are focusing all their effort on those big, immersive experiences so we get even more of the good stuff. And for the most part I don't think not having the horsepower of the PS4 and XBoner has negatively affected first party games, which are the #1 thing people buy Nintendo consoles for (especially since multiplats usually run like shit on Switch...)
BotW is probably the exception there. Super Mario Odyssey looks and runs great, I'm not sure what they could have done to improve it if they had more horsepower to work with. Although I would really like to see what the heavy hitters like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon would look like on modern hardware.
Pokemon runs poorly despite looking like an upscaled 3DS game but that's just Game Freak being Game Freak. Even with a system several times as powerful as the 3DS they still can't make a decent looking game. Even if Pokemon was on XBoner they would find a way to make it run poorly while looking like a 360 game.
It mostly sucks for multiplats, because they are not designed with weaker hardware in mind and barely run but they get released anyway. But you can just as easily play those on something else and they are not what sells systems.

@The Real Jdbye Not all melee players are diehard maniacs that won't accept the game if a movement value is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% faster or slower than it is in the original game. Some like leffen are playing ultimate as well. just bringing back the melee gameplay and rebalancing the characters to fit with the new gameplay is enough. it could also be a switch in the options menu, so the 5 people that perfer ultimate's slower gameplay can always toggle that off.
Plus nintendo really, really hates project M. just bringing melee gameplay back as an option would be enough to kill the project entirely.
i know a lot of people mention this when talking about the switch's immense potential, but doing this would earn them millions- theyre sitting on a golden opportunity.

also splatoon 2 is more graphically intense than splatoon 1 and botw even if it's only slightly, and that game is 60fps all day every day. (except for the hub but.... it's a fucking hub. lmao)

I already mentioned that some people play both. But as said, they are a minority. And even those people would not likely ditch Melee for anything. A new Smash with similar mechanics to Melee is all fine and good. But... It's not Melee. That might be fine with some people but there will always be a divide in the community.
And if you like fast gameplay, play a fast character? Greninja is so fast I can't even keep up with the movements. it was actually difficult to use that character because of the insane speed.

And I said "that might be fine with some people". I'm agreeing with you. That doesn't solve the divide in the community though. Maybe most people would be open to it, it's not the impression I've gotten though. What people say and what they do can sometimes be very different things. Project M just created a third community so that didn't exactly solve the problem either.

is greninja as fast as melee fox though? checkmate
seriously though, as fast as ultimate's gameplay is it simply can't compare to melee's breakneck pace. I don't want to say this again, but not all melee players are diehard maniacs that won't accept the game if a movement value is 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

1% faster or slower than it is in the original game. I've talked with the melee community a bit, and it seems like most of them would actually open up to ultimate a lot more if the gameplay is was much more reminiscient to what it was in melee. plus the project M community exists, and many people there would also play ultimate if it had melee's gameplay. after all project M is basically ultimate with melee physics. excluding the smaller roster and stages. hell the rivals of aether community exists too, which is basically melee hd. that game also has a few differences from melee, yet it's extremely popular in the landscape of smash alternatives.

EDIT: reposted because editing via the built in one just messed up my message