Okay. Since most ppl don't like me anyways, I'll say it...

Osmosis · Mar 19, 2015

tony_2018 said:
End of the day, your happy with what you got. I'm happy with what I got. That is all that matters.

Are you kidding? Of course I'm happy! GAMES!!! :gba:

using SPRelay I noticed not many ppl Rayman... shame. Heck Tetris Ult gets more SP than Rayman. They should make Legends for 3DS. And PAc-Man CE DX +. Pac/Galaga doesn't cut it... only CE. No bombing. Boo.

Ridge Racer would be good if the stupid announcer would STFU. OMG... music is great, fun/decent gameplay then every 2 seconds "SOMEONE'S SLIPSTREAMING YOU!" for the love of god make her stop.

I am so happy to play Paper Mario again. Borrowed it once and fell in love. Yoshi ain't bad either. Haven't tried Icarus yet... that'll be fun.

Nathan Drake · Mar 19, 2015

I have a legitimate question for people that say "boo 31 game limit per SD card" and "even 31 games takes so long to go through": why do you even have that many 3DS games downloaded? The 3DS doesn't even have 31 games worth playing. Hell, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a number that large worth playing on most systems that have been out longer without seriously reaching. I get that when it comes to piracy, you feel entitled and maybe even obligated to download obscene amounts of games and to always have them at your fingertips, but realistically, the vast majority of you I'd guess could easily make do with about 10 games, if even that many. You just keep downloading and adding because you can, not because you need to. With that in mind, I hardly find it a con that you can only store 31 games on an SD for Sky, or that you have to wait a couple seconds to advance to the next game in your given sequence of games. In my mind, that 31 game limit encompasses all the games truly worth playing in the 3DS library to this point, and now that the 3DS has started slowing down, probably all of the worthwhile games still to come.

The fact that entire threads have been devoted to this apparently terrible limit just tells me how entitled and childish some of you are. Even if you insist on treating ROMs like a real life game of Pokemon, there is no reason that every sub par game you downloaded just because you could needs to be available to play instantly 24/7, 365 days a year.

Now, although the thread itself is a bit flame bait-y, bear with me:

The Sky3DS is a more capable cart than many of you recognize. True, on its own, it is only capable of playing games. A major pro is that currently it has yet to fail being able to function effortlessly with each firmware upgrade. I'd say another pro is how simple it is. Except for dealing with headers, and that's only if online matters to you, Sky is otherwise infinitely more simple to work with than the monstrosity that is Gateway. Most of the Gateway threads may as well be written in a dead language to someone like me, and honestly, that is one hell of a deterrent. When the DS scene essentially became drag, drop, pop in the cart and play, I guess maybe I got spoiled, but hell, I'd say the only scene that confuses me more at a glance is the 360 scene, but even that doesn't seem to require at least a basic knowledge of computer science to entirely understand.

With that in mind, the biggest pro Sky3DS has going for it is its simplicity. It is so god damn simple, and that simplicity is beautiful. You get it, firmware doesn't matter, and otherwise the process for setting it up and getting it going is pretty basic and easy to follow. You don't have to worry about accidental updates, waiting for updates to work with emuNAND, dealing with .cia files, etc. On top of that, due to how the Sky3DS functions, provided you decided to sit on 9.2, efforts like KARL3DS will add even more functionality due to the sheer simplicity of Sky being able to act like a legitimate game cart.

Now dealing with the more prominent Gateway pros:
- ROM Dumping: IIRC, this has been possible without actually owning a Gateway cart for awhile now.
- Multirom Menu: Admittedly convenient, but not a make it or break it feature.
- emuNAND: Not necessary with the Sky3DS in its current form. Even if you say "well it may get blocked", well, yes, it might, but it hasn't yet and that's what matters.
- NAND Backup: Not really imperative, though admittedly a nice safeguard provided you have the means to restore that NAND in the event that it's necessary.
- .cia Files: Not necessary with Sky3DS in its current form, and depending on future progress with certain efforts, I wouldn't rule this out as a total impossibility for those that have chosen to stay on 9.2 or lower (though those people likely aren't big on online play or the eshop anyways).
- Downgrading: Probably the least "pro" of all the pros, and only really useful on original 3DS's and their respective XL units.
- Homebrew: Well, sort of, but iirc, this is restricted to 9.2 or lower people, and 9.2> Sky3DS folk are steadily gaining more options.

So does Gateway have some useful features? Sure. Is it easy to justify buying it over the Sky3DS depending on your needs? Of course. Is it just as easy to justify buying the Sky3DS because of your own needs? Sure. Both have a mountain of pros, and each cart does come with some level of risk of eventually not meeting all the needs it once did. In the end, you just have to pick the cart that works for you, and acting as if the Sky3DS isn't the better option for many people just seems silly to me. Arguing ethics is ridiculous when considering companies that are selling piracy devices for profit, and otherwise obviously none of you are going to sway the other by repeating your opinion and steadily bludgeoning one another with it until your debate turns into a round of insults that a mod has to painstakingly clean up.

I know most of this will fall on deaf ears, or I suppose blind eyes where a text based forum is concerned, but I figured I'd at least toss my own views out there.

Queno138 · Mar 19, 2015

Nathan Drake said:
I have a legitimate question for people that say "boo 31 game limit per SD card" and "even 31 games takes so long to go through": why do you even have that many 3DS games downloaded? The 3DS doesn't even have 31 games worth playing. Hell, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a number that large worth playing on most systems that have been out longer without seriously reaching. I get that when it comes to piracy, you feel entitled and maybe even obligated to download obscene amounts of games and to always have them at your fingertips, but realistically, the vast majority of you I'd guess could easily make do with about 10 games, if even that many. You just keep downloading and adding because you can, not because you need to. With that in mind, I hardly find it a con that you can only store 31 games on an SD for Sky, or that you have to wait a couple seconds to advance to the next game in your given sequence of games. In my mind, that 31 game limit encompasses all the games truly worth playing in the 3DS library to this point, and now that the 3DS has started slowing down, probably all of the worthwhile games still to come.

The fact that entire threads have been devoted to this apparently terrible limit just tells me how entitled and childish some of you are. Even if you insist on treating ROMs like a real life game of Pokemon, there is no reason that every sub par game you downloaded just because you could needs to be available to play instantly 24/7, 365 days a year.

Now, although the thread itself is a bit flame bait-y, bear with me:

The Sky3DS is a more capable cart than many of you recognize. True, on its own, it is only capable of playing games. A major pro is that currently it has yet to fail being able to function effortlessly with each firmware upgrade. I'd say another pro is how simple it is. Except for dealing with headers, and that's only if online matters to you, Sky is otherwise infinitely more simple to work with than the monstrosity that is Gateway. Most of the Gateway threads may as well be written in a dead language to someone like me, and honestly, that is one hell of a deterrent. When the DS scene essentially became drag, drop, pop in the cart and play, I guess maybe I got spoiled, but hell, I'd say the only scene that confuses me more at a glance is the 360 scene, but even that doesn't seem to require at least a basic knowledge of computer science to entirely understand.

With that in mind, the biggest pro Sky3DS has going for it is its simplicity. It is so god damn simple, and that simplicity is beautiful. You get it, firmware doesn't matter, and otherwise the process for setting it up and getting it going is pretty basic and easy to follow. You don't have to worry about accidental updates, waiting for updates to work with emuNAND, dealing with .cia files, etc. On top of that, due to how the Sky3DS functions, provided you decided to sit on 9.2, efforts like KARL3DS will add even more functionality due to the sheer simplicity of Sky being able to act like a legitimate game cart.

Now dealing with the more prominent Gateway pros:
- ROM Dumping: IIRC, this has been possible without actually owning a Gateway cart for awhile now.
- Multirom Menu: Admittedly convenient, but not a make it or break it feature.
- emuNAND: Not necessary with the Sky3DS in its current form. Even if you say "well it may get blocked", well, yes, it might, but it hasn't yet and that's what matters.
- NAND Backup: Not really imperative, though admittedly a nice safeguard provided you have the means to restore that NAND in the event that it's necessary.
- .cia Files: Not necessary with Sky3DS in its current form, and depending on future progress with certain efforts, I wouldn't rule this out as a total impossibility for those that have chosen to stay on 9.2 or lower (though those people likely aren't big on online play or the eshop anyways).
- Downgrading: Probably the least "pro" of all the pros, and only really useful on original 3DS's and their respective XL units.
- Homebrew: Well, sort of, but iirc, this is restricted to 9.2 or lower people, and 9.2> Sky3DS folk are steadily gaining more options.

So does Gateway have some useful features? Sure. Is it easy to justify buying it over the Sky3DS depending on your needs? Of course. Is it just as easy to justify buying the Sky3DS because of your own needs? Sure. Both have a mountain of pros, and each cart does come with some level of risk of eventually not meeting all the needs it once did. In the end, you just have to pick the cart that works for you, and acting as if the Sky3DS isn't the better option for many people just seems silly to me. Arguing ethics is ridiculous when considering companies that are selling piracy devices for profit, and otherwise obviously none of you are going to sway the other by repeating your opinion and steadily bludgeoning one another with it until your debate turns into a round of insults that a mod has to painstakingly clean up.

I know most of this will fall on deaf ears, or I suppose blind eyes where a text based forum is concerned, but I figured I'd at least toss my own views out there.

basically sky3ds and gw3ds are both acceptable products, for people with different needs right?

Nathan Drake · Mar 19, 2015

Queno138 said:
basically sky3ds and gw3ds are both acceptable products, for people with different needs right?

To boil it down to tl;dr, essentially. GW is just not the right cart for a lot of people, and I feel keeping the idea of the Sky3DS open without the GW brigade attacking people over their preference for it is a necessity. There are many, many users out there that could barely handle the simple concepts of drag and drop DS flash cart operation. I can guarantee that a lot of GW stuff goes far over the heads of all but the most dedicated of pirates.

Queno138 · Mar 19, 2015

Nathan Drake said:
To boil it down to tl;dr, essentially. GW is just not the right cart for a lot of people, and I feel keeping the idea of the Sky3DS open without the GW brigade attacking people over their preference for it is a necessity. There are many, many users out there that could barely handle the simple concepts of drag and drop DS flash cart operation. I can guarantee that a lot of GW stuff goes far over the heads of all but the most dedicated of pirates.

that's a simple conclusion to go to.

I don't see why people can't agree to this.

Osmosis · Mar 19, 2015

Queno138 said:
basically sky3ds and gw3ds are both acceptable products, for people with different needs right?

Who knows... the fact that Sky3DS works on 9.5+ may be better in the long run when new 3DS users find out it works and GW was just a thing for old users... (I don't hate GW folks, just screwed up my firmware and now can't use it, but it's ok to flame on me here, I was stoopid)

Oishikatta · Mar 19, 2015

Osmosis said:
Who knows... the fact that Sky3DS works on 9.5+ may be better in the long run when new 3DS users find out it works and GW was just a thing for old users... (I don't hate GW folks, just screwed up my firmware and now can't use it, but it's ok to flame on me here, I was stoopid)

The problem will be the flood of threads when sky is blocked and people keep updating their 3DS only to find they need to actually buy their games for them to work. The only real issue is the misrepresentation as unblockable. Remember, DS carts were blocked several times. Sky has already shown they won't be updating their cart.

thaikhoa · Mar 19, 2015

Sky3DS is more important to me because the only way to transfer my Pokemon (or CARD2 savedata) from Sky3DS to my retail carts is PowerSaves. GW can't do anything but CARD1 plus the inconvenient swapping the two modes and the weird save encryption.

GW for Emunand + CARD1 games / Gateway Mode
Sky3DS for playing/ backing up/ restoring CARD2 games / Classic Mode

Queno138 · Mar 19, 2015

Osmosis said:
Who knows... the fact that Sky3DS works on 9.5+ may be better in the long run when new 3DS users find out it works and GW was just a thing for old users... (I don't hate GW folks, just screwed up my firmware and now can't use it, but it's ok to flame on me here, I was stoopid)

1. you're forgetting emunand, hence GW STILL works.
2. we can't say for sure that sky OR gw will survive the next firmwares,
but at the very least, software block can be saved with software solution, whereas one can't say the same for hardware block..

Nathan Drake · Mar 19, 2015

Oishikatta said:
The problem will be the flood of threads when sky is blocked and people keep updating their 3DS only to find they need to actually buy their games for them to work. The only real issue is the misrepresentation as unblockable. Remember, DS carts were blocked several times. Sky has already shown they won't be updating their cart.

To be fair, though that is a possibility, nobody has actually proven how block-able Sky is. I'm aware of the theories on how Sky tricks the 3DS, and how those tricks could maybe be blocked, but we all know none of those are by any means conclusive. I do believe it is all in the hardware and could never actually be updated to work were it blocked, but we have to remember that the Sky works off a totally different way of exploiting the operation of the 3DS than GW does. Whereas GW is largely a software based solution that is easily blocked by some changes in the code, Sky is pretty much entirely hardware, down to how you swap the games. As such, Sky may not be unblockable, but at the same time, maybe it is unblockable since blocking it may mean blocking the ability for other 3DS games to play. We can't just use the DSi and 3DS updates blocking DS carts as an example, as I'm sure the Sky3DS doesn't function in the same way. We do have to remember that these are two entirely different systems with two entirely different ways of handling game reading and firmware operations, sharing just enough hardware similarities to operate DS games in the DS sandbox.

The biggest flaw in Sky3DS is its ambiguity, really. If it does get blocked, I'm absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt positive the scenario you mentioned would come to light, but I do have some legitimate doubts about how blockable the Sky is.

HEX1GON · Mar 19, 2015

What kind of thread is this?

GW allows much more than cart dumping, holyshit.

Nathan Drake · Mar 19, 2015

HEX1GON said:
What kind of thread is this?

GW allows much more than cart dumping, holyshit.

It's what we call in the business "flame bait". Although I'm sure our lovely OP does have some valid points to make, they're choosing to do it in an abrasive manner with the expectation of being further ostracized by the community.

That is all we have for Internet 101 today.

Edit: With that said, this thread has actually spawned some okay conversation, so despite the flame bait, it has turned out reasonably well and likely won't be locked by a mod unless it devolves.

Osmosis · Mar 19, 2015

Hrm, hardware vs software... good point. But all things are fixable, and a hardware fix for Sky3DS is inevitable (31+ limit already would require a hardware fix to the Sky3DS, and if t gets blocked, might as well release a new one). Meanwhile, the GW did have that slimy way of wiggling through it occasionally only needing software which could be used for free until a certain update. Again, software is easier to fix and distribute than hardware... But Sky3DS does have SOME software capabilities to work with (headers and template)... so... yeah, we can't predict the future.

As for ROM dumping... Still a deal breaker. So back to square one... We need ROM/Header dumping for Sky3DS.

Consider it a flamebait "I wish Sky3DS could..." kinda thread. Have fun!!! Insults welcomed! (you get poo stickers for the meaner you are)

Thirty3Three · Mar 19, 2015

Let me just add in;

Gateway: Emunand. Meaning games can always become playable. Sure they'd have to crack a new encryption, but yeah. Gateway can do this. They've shown they can do so much more. Can't really ever be blocked if you're on emunand. You'll be on the LATEST firmware (emulated).

Sky: Once blocked, well, you're fucked.

Osmosis · Mar 19, 2015

Thirty3Three said:
Let me just add in;

Gateway: Emunand. Meaning games can always become playable. Sure they'd have to crack a new encryption, but yeah. Gateway can do this. They've shown they can do so much more. Can't really ever be blocked if you're on emunand. You'll be on the LATEST firmware (emulated).

Sky: Once blocked, well, you're fucked.

Uh... but let's say JoeSchmoe noobie just bought a 3DSXL (or new) and finds out they can't use GW no matter what, so only option is still Sky3DS which at least works (even worse for N3DS because you need Sky anyhow, or a OOT cart worth the same amount).

Of course GW can do more and is better, but consider this as a wave of noobs who just got their 3DS and found out it was capable of doing more. 2nd wave of pirates only to find out there's a hole in the bucket... dear Lizah deeeeer lizaaah...

So then what? Wish you could use Sky3DS to hack 3DS... right? How? Powersaves? Web injection? Decryption?

Go on...

loco365 · Mar 19, 2015

In all honesty, both cards have advantages over one another:

Gateway's advantages over Sky3DS:
1. emuNAND, which allows users to still have the latest firmware
2. CIA installation and complete homebrew support
3. On-screen Multi-ROM menu

Sky3DS's advantage over Gateway:
1. Simple to use - Plug in and go!
2. Works on the latest firmwares
3. Virtually idiot-proof - You're almost unlikely as hell to brick your system

Both cards have merits over one another, and I don't see why people are constantly fighting over which card is better. Imagine if this had happened with all the different DS cards, having Acekard, R4, TTDS, EZ-Flash, CycloDS, DSTWO, and Supercard (There's probably a few in this list that I'm missing) users all pitting against one another over which card is better. It's all based on user preference. Some cards have features that others can't have, people choose their cards based on their needs. I don't see why people here should respect that and shut up. Besides, it's a flashcard. In the end, the intent of a flashcard is usually the same.

yuyuyup · Mar 19, 2015

Gateway is the only card sky3ds is more like RYE3DS because it's toast

VS.

aos10 · Mar 19, 2015

what is PPP3DS ? you mean the powersave 3DS ? its PS3DS
anyway , i a, with you
we need some one who can reverse engineer the powersave
so we can dump decrypted save and put it back without need the internet
also dumping rom and put it back to the cart ( this is hard and maybe not needed )

Nathan Drake · Mar 19, 2015

Team Fail said:
Both cards have merits over one another, and I don't see why people are constantly fighting over which card is better. Imagine if this had happened with all the different DS cards, having Acekard, R4, TTDS, EZ-Flash, CycloDS, DSTWO, and Supercard (There's probably a few in this list that I'm missing) users all pitting against one another over which card is better. It's all based on user preference. Some cards have features that others can't have, people choose their cards based on their needs. I don't see why people here should respect that and shut up. Besides, it's a flashcard. In the end, the intent of a flashcard is usually the same.

Although off topic, the DS days were a little different. Except for the DSTwo and the CycloDSi, largely your features across carts remain the same. The only other big exception was when AKAIO implemented auto-AP patching that worked pretty damn well all in all, but if you had a reliable cart, generally AP was patched fast and effectively anyways. Otherwise, there was just such a flood of carts that, although people debated over the best cart, it was far easier to come to a consensus based on price and whatever extra feature the competing cart might offer as well as its worth.

Though, with that said, I hope you haven't forgotten the Cyclo fanboys and those that lauded the Acekard 2i as if it were the second coming of your messiah of choice.

Osmosis · Mar 19, 2015

aos10 said:
what is PPP3DS ? you mean the powersave 3DS ? its PS3DS
anyway , i a, with you
we need some one who can reverse engineer the powersave
so we can dump decrypted save and put it back without need the internet
also dumping rom and put it back to the cart ( this is hard and maybe not needed )

Yeh, PP3DS. Powersaves is one word, why they use the Saves is beyond me. So really the "Pro" part should be abbr. instead. But meh, you could just call it the "3DS dongle that acts like a B**** " and I wouldn't mind either.

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Okay. Since most ppl don't like me anyways, I'll say it...

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