Lethal injection

[quote name='DDJM' post='3838240' date='Aug 17 2011, 02:42 PM']I hope this is a (not funny) joke otherwise that's the most stupid thing I've read in years (and you are really a big idiot). You don't even know what kind of sick your cat has but you decided that "he must die". And you want to kill him by yourself (it's worldwide known that you are a famous doctor right? ...).

For God's sake give the poor cat to a person who really loves animals (not you)! There are many vet *with heart* who can take care of your cat for free, you just need to find them. Eventually they can choose to kill your cat if really very very sick and there's nothing to do anymore but it's only *UP TO THEM* to decide if that's the case or not. Or just find a cat lover who can take your cat and try to cure him. What you are going to do is not only very cruel but also very illegal (you are not a doctor and you are using a mix of shit that you bought and that you don't even know how that will work. Probably it will be more painful than "natural death"). Next time don't take cats in street if you can't afford keeping them. Did I already say that you are a big idiot?

P.S. Too bad I don't have your home address or I would go right now to a police station.[/quote]



Wow... Far as I can tell, they took the cat in when it was sick, it got better for a while and now it's gotten worse. The chances it would die are quite high, which prompted not just him, but also his parents to decide that it should be put down. Except they don't have cash.



Now I'm not sure how these home-made euthanasia attempts work out, but he seems more than confident he knows what he's doing, and I'm not one to judge intelligence. I'm assuming he understands what he is doing.


PS
Yes, obviously the police in Italy can go to Canada to get him, huh?

geez this topic made me sad and reminded me of when , had to put my dog down who i adopted from a shelter , she was doing fine for about 4 years then she gave out , she was already fat enough , and had back leg problems and had a tumor on the side of her stomach , and she kept running away from us and laying in the middle of the road, the doctors said that she did't wanna suffer in front of our family so she kept running away , so we had to put her down , i did't even go to the doctors , cause i knew i would burst into tears. I'm feel very sad about your cat , i know what you are doing sounds wrong but i am on your side ,i hate seeing my pets suffer , i hope everything goes good.

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Wow... Far as I can tell, they took the cat in when it was sick, it got better for a while and now it's gotten worse. The chances it would die are quite high, which prompted not just him, but also his parents to decide that it should be put down. Except they don't have cash.[/quote]

Again, there are *DOCTORS* for this, there are doctors who take care of animals and choose what's better to do for their life. Is he a vet? Obvioulsy not, so he has no right to do *ANYTHING* on the poor cat. I understand this is GBAtemp but medicines are not a game that everyone can play for free (or maybe this guy think he's playing Trauma Center on the Wii?).

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Now I'm not sure how these home-made euthanasia attempts work out, but he seems more than confident he knows what he's doing, and I'm not one to judge intelligence. I'm assuming he understands what he is doing.[/quote]

OMG, are you joking too? Home-made euthanasia what?! Kill animals is illegal. Period. He's not a doctor and he can't do a shit. And then what if the poor cat can still be saved? How the hell you know that he "has to die"? Maybe a good vet can still cure him and save his life. But just because the man "has no money" the poor cat has to pay with his life? Yeah right... so if tomorrow this man wakes up and "look sick" we all go to buy euthanasia and kill him right?

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Yes, obviously the police in Italy can go to Canada to get him, huh?[/quote]

I was obvioulsy provocating. But still what this man is going to do is illegal and you can't do that in any civilized country of this world.

[quote name='DDJM' post='3838255' date='Aug 17 2011, 01:58 AM'][quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Wow... Far as I can tell, they took the cat in when it was sick, it got better for a while and now it's gotten worse. The chances it would die are quite high, which prompted not just him, but also his parents to decide that it should be put down. Except they don't have cash.[/quote]

Again, there are *DOCTORS* for this, there are doctors who cure animals and choose what's better to do for their life. Is he a vet? Obvioulsy no, so he has no right to do *ANYTHING* on the poor cat. I understand this is GBAtemp but medicines are not a game that everyone can play for free (or maybe this guy think he's playing Trauma Center on the Wii?).

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Now I'm not sure how these home-made euthanasia attempts work out, but he seems more than confident he knows what he's doing, and I'm not one to judge intelligence. I'm assuming he understands what he is doing.[/quote]

OMG are you joking too? Home-made euthanasia what?? Kill animals is illegal. Period. He's not a doctor and he can't do a shit. And then what if the cat can still be saved? How the hell you know that he has to die? Maybe a good vet can still cure him and save his life. Just because the man "has no money" the poor cat has to pay with his life. So if tomorrow this man wakes up and look sick we go to buy euthanasia and kill him right?

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3838247' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:48 AM']Yes, obviously the police in Italy can go to Canada to get him, huh?[/quote]

I was obvioulsy provocating. But still what this man is going to do is illegal and you can't do that in any civilized country of this world.
[/quote]


Maybe you just need a good dose of SHUT THE FUCK UP and let the man do what he is going to do. First off, you don't live in the same country as him. Here in the USA, we do have places where you can bring animals if you can't afford to take them. In Italy, maybe you do too. But according to OP, there is no such thing in Canada. You don't know his financial situation. You don't know how far he has diagnosed the pet. He took it in when it was sick but nursed it back to health, but now it is worse. If you were in the worst pain of your life, and you were suffering, knowing you had no way out, would you want to be put out of your misery? I know I sure as hell would.

Christ, OP is going through enough turmoil as it is with this. The last thing he needs is you being an ignorant fuckwad jumping down his throat.

The cat is suffering. It has had health issues before. A vet would likely do what OP is going to do himself. But in the cat's last moments, it's going to be held by the guy who brought it back to health and loved it and always did what was best for it, not some stranger in scrubs doing what he does just to get paid.

OP, I don't necessarily agree with doing it yourself because it IS unprofessional. However, if you think it is the right thing to do for the cat, if there is no hope of it recovering, I do realize that everybody's situation is different, and you gotta do what you gotta do. So with that, I wish you the best of luck with it, and hope the cat can be happy in its last moments.

[quote name='plasma dragon007' post='3838266' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:13 AM']The cat is suffering. It has had health issues before. A vet would likely do what OP is going to do himself. But in the cat's last moments, it's going to be held by the guy who brought it back to health and loved it and always did what was best for it, not some stranger in scrubs doing what he does just to get paid.[/quote]

Actually I think that this cat has never sees a doctor in his life. If the man really has no money probably he didn't even take the cat to a doctor to know *WHAT SICK HE HAS* (and if can be cured, many cat's sicks can be cured today, even tumors). He just thinks "the cat looks sick so he has to die".

P.S. I would sell my house to try to save my pets... But I understand that not everyone is a true animal lover...

It means a lot to me that you guys are supporting me. I will clarify a little for DDJM.
The cat is professionally diagnosed by my friend who came from Egypt to practice, put can't get his license here unless he redoes his studies. Stupid Quebec immigration procedures. I can't remember the name of the condition(well, the one that is going to kill him, he has many), but he assured me it's fatal. But he will live for a few more days, maybe a week and a half at most(which would be surprising, due to his current state). While it may be treatable, I highly doubt it would be worth it at this point. He would surely not live a very long life anyway.
I have tried to get at least an appointment with a vet, but he would still have to suffer for two to three days before finally be put out of his misery(and that's a best case scenario). And that's IF my parents magically had money. I'm actively looking for an alternative and looking into the SPCA, but I don't know how that'll go. And I'm afraid even then it would take at least two days to get things done. Making him wait there for days when I could do the same job right now makes me sick. At least, he will be in a familiar environment with his family around him.

DDJM, have you ever had a cat that is on the brink of death? A cat that IS obviously suffering, a cat that IS in pain?

Do you know what it looks like? Do you know the sounds that a cat in that state makes, the way they act, the difference in posture as they carry themselves around the house?

I would have to assume "no".

If taking the pet to a vet is such a big deal to you, why don't you give him the money to do it then? Because you must have the money to spare since it's such a strong necessity.

[quote name='plasma dragon007' post='3838283' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:35 AM']DDJM, have you ever had a cat that is on the brink of death? A cat that IS obviously suffering, a cat that IS in pain?

Do you know what it looks like? Do you know the sounds that a cat in that state makes, the way they act, the difference in posture as they carry themselves around the house?[/quote]

Unfortunately I know these situations perfectly... 1 year ago one of my dogs had euthanasia because of a tumor (he couldn't breath anymore... he was in big pain). But our vet was great and the dog died in 3 seconds without pain... :'( Don't misunderstand me, I'm absolutely not criticizing euthanasia, sometimes is the most "human way" to help a animal to die without pain.

What I can't accept is the "home-made" euthanasia, this is a serious thing, even if the doctor already said: "Sorry there's nothing to do anymore to cure your cat" you still have to find a real vet who can make euthanasia in the correct way. A "bad" euthanasia can make an animal suffer even more and for many (*many*) minutes... How many euthanasia did this man make in his life? i think zero. Come on, you can't become doctor in 1 day.

[quote name='DDJM' post='3838295' date='Aug 17 2011, 03:49 AM'][quote name='plasma dragon007' post='3838283' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:35 AM']DDJM, have you ever had a cat that is on the brink of death? A cat that IS obviously suffering, a cat that IS in pain?

Do you know what it looks like? Do you know the sounds that a cat in that state makes, the way they act, the difference in posture as they carry themselves around the house?[/quote]

Unfortunately I know these situations perfectly... 1 year ago one of my dogs had euthanasia because of a tumor (he couldn't breath anymore... he was in big pain). But our vet was great and the dog died in 3 seconds without pain... :'( Don't misunderstand me, I'm absolutely not criticizing euthanasia, sometimes is the most "human way" to help a animal to die without pain.

What I can't accept is the "home-made" euthanasia, this is a serious thing, even if the doctor already said: "Sorry there's nothing to do anymore to cure your cat" you still have to find a real vet who can make euthanasia in the correct way. A "bad" euthanasia can make an animal suffer even more and for many (*many*) minutes... How many euthanasia did this man make in his life? i think zero. Come on, you can't become doctor in 1 day.
[/quote]
I do agree that I never made an euthanasia before, but that doesn't mean I can't handle a syringe. I did it in the past, it isn't so difficult. Getting the lethal dose of potassium chloride into his bloodstream shouldn't be very hard.

[quote name='Pyrmon' post='3838282' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:35 AM']While it may be treatable, I highly doubt it would be worth it at this point. He would surely not live a very long life anyway.[/quote]

Try, at least. If you love him try to find a person who love animals and can make something to save him. Maybe you can find a person with money who can take the cat in "this state" and cure him. I cured many cats in my life, some were really "near death" and now they are in perfect health. Maybe in 1 year you'll be proud of yourself because the cat is ok and you "saved a life"...

[quote name='Pyrmon' post='3838282' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:35 AM']Making him wait there for days when I could do the same job right now makes me sick. At least, he will be in a familiar environment with his family around him.[/quote]

Don't do it. Even if there's nothing to do and you must go with euthanasia find a real doctor. What about if your home-made euthanasia goes wrong and then you can see your cat in huge pain for something 1 hour? You'll never forget this... Please if you love the poor cat find an alternative solution. Best luck!

P.S. Thank you for clarifying.

There's no one who wants to take in a animal that is almost dead. People would rather just go to the store and get a healthy kitten.
Best case scenario he probably won't live another year. As my friend said it, "he's a goner either way, man". Which is why he told me to get it euthanized. He can't be here to do it himself, but he did tell me how to do it. That's why I'm confident I can administer the dose.

I will try to look for alternatives, but if I don't find anything, I'm doing it at 8:00 AM today. In about 4 hours.

Injecting a cat isn't quite the same a human, who can sit still. Unless the animal is truly well and gone quite a while, it is most probably not going to be easy.

Call the vet and explain the situation and all the actions you have taken so far, except for your injection plot, there is a high probability he/she will either take it off your hands for you or only charge you the drugs used to euthanase and not his or her time and practice. That will only be a few dollars. Vets are people too .

From what I gather you are working in a hospital for a bit, possibly doing some studies in that respect. Please, please, please think about that fact that you are not veterinary trained. With reluctance I state that the suggested method, if performed correctly, could work inducing fairly quick cardiac arrest. It won't be pretty. Regardless as stated giving an injection to a cat is different then from a human and a lot of things can go wrong and you could easily increase the suffering. Also, and I am terribly sorry to say this, you are not qualified to decide on these matters (currently, neither truly am I and I have no true indication of the state of the cat). Take it to a vet, call first if you are unsure and explain the situation.

[quickedit]Out of pure interest, not suggesting you should, how was this procedure explained to you? That is, how will you go about doing this?

[quote name='Scorpei' post='3838322' date='Aug 17 2011, 04:17 AM']Injecting a cat isn't quite the same a human, who can sit still. Unless the animal is truly well and gone quite a while, it is most probably not going to be easy.

Call the vet and explain the situation and all the actions you have taken so far, except for your injection plot, there is a high probability he/she will either take it off your hands for you or only charge you the drugs used to euthanase and not his or her time and practice. That will only be a few dollars. Vets are people too .

From what I gather you are working in a hospital for a bit, possibly doing some studies in that respect. Please, please, please think about that fact that you are not veterinary trained. With reluctance I state that the suggested method, if performed correctly, could work inducing fairly instant cardiac arrest. Regardless as stated giving an injection to a cat is different then from a human and a lot of things can go wrong and you could easily increase the suffering. Also, and I am terribly sorry to say this, you are not qualified to decide on these matters (currently, neither truly am I and I have no true indication of the state of the cat). Take it to a vet, call first if you are unsure and explain the situation.[/quote]
That is why I'm planning on having the cat sleeping before administering it.

I have never worked in a hospital before(though I am studying chemistry and biology as a hobby), but I have had to make injections for relatives who, mainly, were a little scared of doing it themselves. It happened to one of my aunt who had cancer and had to make injections herself. She asked the doctor to show her so she wouldn't have to get to the hospital every two days. She thought it was fine in theory, but couldn't do it in practice. I ended up doing it a few times before she built up the courage to do it herself.

And read my previous posts.

[quote name='Pyrmon' post='3838316' date='Aug 17 2011, 10:14 AM']There's no one who wants to take in a animal that is almost dead. People would rather just go to the store and get a healthy kitten.[/quote]

I don't live in Canada but I find it unbelievable that there is noone there who can take care of a cat for free. Here in Italy there are many people who make this and also some vets who visit and take care of animals for free (it's a job ok but in first place they do *LOVE* animals...).

EDIT:
I googled a bit, what about this in Montreal (or something like this)?

"From time to time, we receive calls from cat owners that for many reasons can no longer care for their cat. To avoid having these loving, healthy cats euthanized we provide a foster home and take them to the next Adoption Days."

http://zipp.it/i/R765I

I have, and I did not find a proper description of your method. And the cat sleeping, good luck have fun when manipulating it and sticking a needle in there without it waking up and making you into it's private scratchingpost. As suggested by a friend of mine, depending on your legislation a sharp shovel would be more humane. Call, a, vet / take it to one.

Also, just a thought, what if it wakes up and starts scratching you all over, think your injection will be all right? Think you will have done it properly? Or just give the cat the worst time of his life with hypercalemia not enough to kill it?

[quick edit]Just in case you are wondering, I am a three year vet student .

First off, I would like to say that I really appreciate you taking care of the cat. Even though your resources are limited, your heart is in the right place.
Just as Scorpei, I am a veterinary student.
I have seen a lot of cats suffer and I am all for euthanasia. But depending on the country you live in, there are laws that might prevent you from doing this at home legally.
Those laws are there for a good reason. In most cases these so called home euthanasias done by people without the proper knowledge and skill, result in prolonged suffering. Quite te opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
As for your plan with kalium... Smart thinking. But not the most humane way. There have been studies on the death penalty that suggest there are way more humane ways to end a life. A documentary was made about this. Although I forgot the title. But in that documentary it turns out that they do not want to use more humane ways than a Kalium overdose because they like the idea of the person having to suffer.
In Veterinary medicine we never use kalium to put animals down. Though I am not going to tell you what we use instead.
The reason I think this is not a good plan is because the kalium would have to be administered Intravenously. I have some experience doing this and I call tell you that that, is not easy to do. Certainly if you have never practised it before.
If you pick another place/tissue to administer the kalium, it will take waaaaaay longer for the body to absorb it. Which means it will slowly feel the effects of the kalium. ( which could be seen as torture)
Besides that.. cat's sleep very light.. If you are able to inject the cat in one of his vains without waking him up, I will personally fly over there to learn this skill from you. It is way more likely that the cat will scratch your face off ( depending on the state of the cat)

I also had a concern about the painkillers. Cat's usually do not cope well with humane painkillers. It is pretty toxic to them. So instead of helping it, you would be hurting it.

Now this may all seem like a lot of critisism, but it is not intended like that. I know you really want to help the cat and that your situation is very difficult. I'm just saying that the way you propose is not easy..hell it is close to impossible.
As Scorpei suggested, find a nice vet.
I am also very interested in the illnes the cat has. If it is renal failure, which is often the case, the cat will probably slowly go into a coma... that is not such a bad end I have to say.

So good luck with the cat and finding people to help you.

[quote name='Scorpei' post='3838343' date='Aug 17 2011, 04:36 AM']I have, and I did not find a proper description of your method. And the cat sleeping, good luck have fun when manipulating it and sticking a needle in there without it waking up and making you into it's private scratchingpost. As suggested by a friend of mine, depending on your legislation a sharp shovel would be more humane. Call, a, vet / take it to one.

Also, just a thought, what if it wakes up and starts scratching you all over, think your injection will be all right? Think you will have done it properly? Or just give the cat the worst time of his life with hypercalemia not enough to kill it?

[quick edit]Just in case you are wondering, I am a three year vet student .[/quote]
By sleeping, I meant under the effect of some kind of sedative. And I think he's too weak to give up much of a fight really. Holding him down shouldn't be a challenge.

For the method used:
1: Pinch the skin around the hips or between the shoulders so as to tent the skin.
2: Swiftly but carefully insert the needle and inject.
3: Let the blood do it's job.

If you could confirm it's good, it would be very nice of you.

Also, I'm not sure how an injection of Potassium Chloride can cause hypercalcemia.

Oh hell no, subcutanious is SO not the way to go. It WIL suffer that way........ quite a lot... and the desired effect (death) is debatable to achieve.
@Hypercalemia, I used the wrong letter, I am sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperkalemia
Aside from that, /agree on Jeffrey88

[quote name='Scorpei' post='3838366' date='Aug 17 2011, 05:06 AM']Oh hell no, subcutanious is SO not the way to go. It WIL suffer that way........ quite a lot... and the desired effect (death) is debatable to achieve.
@Hypercalemia, I used the wrong letter, I am sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperkalemia
Aside from that, /agree on Jeffrey88[/quote]
Yeah you're right. It's too slow to achieve death. I though the technique would be similar to insulin shots, though about it and saw it didn't work.

And @Jeffrey you wouldn't happen to know where I could get my hands on sodium thiopental or pentobarbital, would you?

Medical knowledge be all up in this bitch. Anyways, it likely is renal failure as was mentioned (kidney failure for people that may not know). Kidney issues in general are fairly common in cats from what I know, and they generally result in the premature death of the animal in question. Something was off from the get go though about the whole deal. Glad there are a couple people that really knew what they were talking about to clear the air.