Just want to get somthings off my mind about the wii u.

[quote name='KingVamp' post='3761107' date='Jul 7 2011, 10:01 PM'][quote name='Guild McCommunist' post='3761083' date='Jul 7 2011, 08:46 AM'][quote name='KingVamp' post='3761081' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:44 PM']So if the ps4 doesn't "feel" like the next gen, you aren't getting it?

How can you feel that wii u is certain gen without actually having it?

You always assume the worst for Nintendo.[/quote]

Yes, if the PS4 doesn't offer next gen graphics, next gen power, and next gen features, I won't buy it.

I'm saying the WiiU is next generation, how are you people not getting this? I'm also saying that just because it's next generation doesn't mean that it features so-called "next gen" tech and that it can still FEEL like a current generation console.

And I only assume the worst for Nintendo because they've given me nothing else. They gave us a Wii with graphics barely past last gen. They gave us a handheld with mediocre games and gimped features. Any sense of optimism I've had for them has left once I realized they're just nickel and diming everyone.
[/quote]

What do you think you can do with ps4 differently than the ps3 other than better graphics.
Anything they think of outside that will be cast out as just gimmicks(negative way).

What ps4 would be so much better because of lighting and slight details? "OMG!!! Looks how rough the rocks feel and look at the light and shadows!!"

Really? Seriously?

Handheld is getting good games and have nice features. I didn't see you point. Maybe blind by eye candy.

They try to come up with something new and they just nickel and diming people?

What in the world are you looking for? What do you think Sony will come up with that doesn't look gimmicky to you?

Shoot even at this point, this "we have more power" is starting to sound gimmicky.

Maybe Nintendo show just throw out a console with all 2012 tech and be like "price? it your problem".
[/quote]
So that means the WiiU controller and 3D isn't a gimmick? Even though though 3D is horrible and useless (in my perspective) and the controller is gigantic randomness with a screen?

So let's see this. When the Wii Remote was released, Nintendo's core fanbase was all the rave on how "innovative" it was and shit. When PS Move and Kinect (which were arguably better in terms of technology) were released, they were all "hey, Y U COPY NINTENDO! FUCKING GIMMICK". So can they blame Sony? They were the ones who thought it was a hit and now they think that Sony broke the law for using a feature that has been there for fucking ages. Why do they have such a big problem with Sony making money when it's obvious that Nintendo is trying to make money too?

The 3DS has a mediocre lineup at best. The main complaint from people that I know that own it is the fact that there are virtually no good original games available. Then there's also the factor of 3D, which is probably the biggest gimmick this gen so far (even worse than a fucking screen on a controller and a really uselessly random touch pad that's uncomfortable). I'm very against 3D so it's impossible for me to give an unbiased opinion, but still, 3D on a handheld. If that isn't a gimmick, I have no idea what is.

Face it, the WiiU is a really, really gimmicky console. The word "innovation" has become a tired cliche now. It's virtually the only way to make money. We have no real way of knowing what else Sony has in store, but what I'm hoping for is an extremely refined concept of control. That's what isn't gimmicky. A control scheme that doesn't rely on you having to carry a gigantic tablet to play baseball.

The Nintendo Fanboys are focused on "innovation, while the Sony Fanboys are focused on "power". What's sad is that for some reason, innovation is now the same as gimmicks, and power is now the same as graphics. While a unique console is good, the lengths Nintendo goes to to pass off innovation is just ridiculous.

Also, KingVamp, reading most of your posts make me twitch due to the fact that you are a blatant Nintendo Fanboy.

[quote name='KingdomBlade' post='3761161' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:42 PM']Even though though 3D is horrible and useless (in my perspective) and the controller is gigantic randomness with a screen?[/quote]

Well so far the only useful 3D effect I've seen is that thing with Resistance 3 local multiplayer where you can play splitscreen but have each player see their screen on the whole screen via 3D. That was actually one of the best uses I've seen come out of 3D in gaming outside of just "Look, it's in THREEEE DEEEE NOW."

[quote name='r3gR3t' post='3761156' date='Jul 7 2011, 02:38 PM'][quote name='Guild McCommunist' post='3761118' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:12 AM'][

"More power" is gimmicky now? That's honestly the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. It seems like now you're just trying to say Nintendo is not gimmicky and trying to peg everyone who tries to stay to a more traditional route "gimmicky".[/quote]

Yes, it is. That's he whole ''gimmick'' behind the whole PS line up, IMO.
[/quote]

LMAO. lets call everything a gimmick now.

Can we just stop quarreling? Please

[quote name='phantastic91' post='3761167' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:44 AM'][quote name='r3gR3t' post='3761156' date='Jul 7 2011, 02:38 PM'][quote name='Guild McCommunist' post='3761118' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:12 AM'][

"More power" is gimmicky now? That's honestly the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. It seems like now you're just trying to say Nintendo is not gimmicky and trying to peg everyone who tries to stay to a more traditional route "gimmicky".[/quote]

Yes, it is. That's he whole ''gimmick'' behind the whole PS line up, IMO.
[/quote]

LMAO. lets call everything a gimmick now.
[/quote]


Well, for Ninty fanboys, the ''Power'' behind Sony is their gimmick.
Sameways, for Sony fanboys, the ''Innovation'' behind Nintendo is their gimmick.

Just like KingdomBlade was saying

[quote name='Guild McCommunist' post='3761144' date='Jul 7 2011, 10:30 AM'][quote name='Shinigami357' post='3761136' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:26 PM']Perhaps we should ask Guild how a next-gen console should "FEEL" like. Up to the moment I read this, I didn't even know a console had to "FEEL" like something.[/quote]

It should have graphics that look advanced, not like the current gen, and have enough power for games that are beyond what the current ones can do. It should also integrate new features that current ones aren't able to do (it's really up for the companies to make something new). For me at least, it requires more than just a new controller and slightly better graphics (I expect things to be like the PS2-PS3 gap).
[/quote]

Personally I feel this is a bit silly to be thinking this. It's obvious we are 'plateauing' in terms of VISUAL fidelity jumps. You're simply not going to be seeing the PS2-PS3 type of huge jumps in performance. The things you will be seeing are a lot more subtle. Hypertexturing is going to allow for more detailed environments. We've seen a lot of improvements in procedural foliage, physics addins are becoming popular, facial and motion animations are becoming more refined. Being able to simultaneously render both vast outdoor and indoor environments. In essence you're going to see that the world 'feels' more real but it's not really going to be the visual 'in your face' stuff that makes that possible.

They're still solving problems like trying to get AA, as well as several real time lighting scenarios, without obliterating performance. But other than pushing more polys, the future of the visual fidelity of gaming is going to be dealing with all the subtle things. Basically allowing devs to create 'realistic' environments, without being hampered by poly counts and texture sizes, allowing for 'organic' things like trees/water/fire to be more realistic, realistic animation, etc.

On a side note, if you ever wondered, there are actually companies that specialise in 'stock animation' similar to 'stock photos' in the photography world. So if you ever see some game with some crappy animation, they probably cheaped out and got some stock animation for dirt cheap. Though I've been told that a day or two in a mocap studio can run $50k....

[quote name='Guild McCommunist' post='3761144' date='Jul 7 2011, 10:30 PM'][quote name='Shinigami357' post='3761136' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:26 PM']Perhaps we should ask Guild how a next-gen console should "FEEL" like. Up to the moment I read this, I didn't even know a console had to "FEEL" like something.[/quote]

It should have graphics that look advanced, not like the current gen, and have enough power for games that are beyond what the current ones can do. It should also integrate new features that current ones aren't able to do (it's really up for the companies to make something new). For me at least, it requires more than just a new controller and slightly better graphics (I expect things to be like the PS2-PS3 gap).
[/quote]


1. Power isn't the end-all be-all in terms of doing things beyond the current-gen. That's a misconception, IMHO. What games can and cannot do is in the hands of the game developer, not the console itself, which is just a basis.

2. Features... Assuming from the way you diss the Wii and 3DS, it takes a whole lot of "features" to satiate you. I mean, what other console/handheld can do what those can do?

Also, the PS3-PS3 gap, I think, was the reason the PS3 was dragged down for the first year or so of it's life. I mean, it was like a PS2 but not a PS2. Its power needed a long time to be harnessed, meanwhile it was held back by the fact that it could not fully play the PS2/PSone games.

PS
Last thing. If I have you right, you think a console has to have changed in comparison to the current-gen to feel next-gen. However, I feel you only consider a change forward as change. Sometimes going in a direction other than straight forward counts as change too. Hence, why we consider the Wii [and the WiiU in the future] and the 3DS as better consoles than their past iterations. I think that's why you can't understand us "ninty fanboys".

I agree with Shinigami on this one; I'd rather have a new system with fun games instead of a system that can make my brain explode with graphics. I mean, sure, graphics are nice, but you start to not notice them if you get really into a game.

And besides, I'm probably gonna get a WiiU and a PS4, so I don't have to worry too much about how "bad" the WiiU looks in comparison. Not all people that buy a console are gonna stick with that console all the way through.

I just hope this conversation doesn't lead to a war.

[quote name='Slyakin' post='3761194' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:02 PM']I agree with Shinigami on this one; I'd rather have a new system with fun games instead of a system that can make my brain explode with graphics. I mean, sure, graphics are nice, but you start to not notice them if you get really into a game.

And besides, I'm probably gonna get a WiiU and a PS4, so I don't have to worry too much about how "bad" the WiiU looks in comparison. Not all people that buy a console are gonna stick with that console all the way through.[/quote]
How sure is anyone that PS4 won't be full of fun games? Just because Sony has already established a fanbase doesn't mean it can't have a nice variety of fun games.

[quote name='Slyakin' post='3761194' date='Jul 7 2011, 12:02 PM']I agree with Shinigami on this one; I'd rather have a new system with fun games instead of a system that can make my brain explode with graphics. I mean, sure, graphics are nice, but you start to not notice them if you get really into a game.

And besides, I'm probably gonna get a WiiU and a PS4, so I don't have to worry too much about how "bad" the WiiU looks in comparison. Not all people that buy a console are gonna stick with that console all the way through.[/quote]
I agree with you guys, a good game doesn't have to have astonishing graphics.
Like I said earlier, I only buy a console when a really good game (or a franchise I'm a fan of ) comes out for that console.

I plan on buying a 3DS but that'll be if MML3 gets released. TBH, the only 3 games that look interesting for me right now are ToZ: OoT 3D, RE:Mercenaries and Kid Icarus.

[quote name='KingdomBlade' post='3761201' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:06 AM'][quote name='Slyakin' post='3761194' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:02 PM']I agree with Shinigami on this one; I'd rather have a new system with fun games instead of a system that can make my brain explode with graphics. I mean, sure, graphics are nice, but you start to not notice them if you get really into a game.

And besides, I'm probably gonna get a WiiU and a PS4, so I don't have to worry too much about how "bad" the WiiU looks in comparison. Not all people that buy a console are gonna stick with that console all the way through.[/quote]
How sure is anyone that PS4 won't be full of fun games? Just because Sony has already established a fanbase doesn't mean it can't have a nice variety of fun games.
[/quote]
I'm getting it because Sony and SE. I'm a die-hard SE fan, so I'll empty my wallet anytime I see something interesting from them.



EDIT: I wasn't actually saying that the PS4 was bad. Wait, what were you saying? I'm confused now.

[quote name='KingdomBlade' post='3761201' date='Jul 7 2011, 12:06 PM'][quote name='Slyakin' post='3761194' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:02 PM']I agree with Shinigami on this one; I'd rather have a new system with fun games instead of a system that can make my brain explode with graphics. I mean, sure, graphics are nice, but you start to not notice them if you get really into a game.

And besides, I'm probably gonna get a WiiU and a PS4, so I don't have to worry too much about how "bad" the WiiU looks in comparison. Not all people that buy a console are gonna stick with that console all the way through.[/quote]
How sure is anyone that PS4 won't be full of fun games? Just because Sony has already established a fanbase doesn't mean it can't have a nice variety of fun games.
[/quote]
That's because early days of a new console's life are always like that. Since it's new, there's not much of a ''selection'' to chose from. That's why I wait at least 2 or so years before even thinking 'bout getting a next gen console.

I'm sure people get their consoles for various reasons.

I'm a pokemon fan, I like Mario and I really enjoy FPS. surely that would give me reason to decide on the two, if I have the power (money, for instance).

Games need not be graphic hungry, yes. But there are things which can completely ruin an expected great game. Controls is an example.

I'm not contradicting anyone, I'm just adding on. Don't get the wrong idea.

the main concern about the graphics issue for me is that if the new xbox and ps4 gets a leap in graphics, then multiplatform games may not go on the wiiu like how barely any went on the wii. nintendo fans raved about how the wii is all about fun and that graphics don't make a game and yet fun third party games dominated on the other consoles because of the power (which results in high graphics) . if this happens again are we going to be expecting wiiu spinoff versions of main third party games now, which is usually developed by a cheaper studio.

it happened on the wii so it's pretty reasonable to give the wiiu the pessimistic view. sure they are trying real hard to get the support back, but I have to see if happen first. im still getting a wiiu regardless because i still want to play my Nintendo games.

[quote name='chris888222' post='3761223' date='Jul 7 2011, 12:13 PM']I'm sure people get their consoles for various reasons.

I'm a pokemon fan, I like Mario and I really enjoy FPS. surely that would give me reason to decide on the two, if I have the power (money, for instance).

Games need not be graphic hungry, yes. But there are things which can completely ruin an expected great game. Controls is an example.

I'm not contradicting anyone, I'm just adding on. Don't get the wrong idea.[/quote]
Yeah, same here. 4th Pokemon gen was the reason I bought my DSL, and honestlty, I'm glad I bought it. There are quite a few good tittles for the DS, among ALL the shovelware, that is.

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3761184' date='Jul 7 2011, 03:59 PM']1. Power isn't the end-all be-all in terms of doing things beyond the current-gen. That's a misconception, IMHO. What games can and cannot do is in the hands of the game developer, not the console itself, which is just a basis.

2. Features... Assuming from the way you diss the Wii and 3DS, it takes a whole lot of "features" to satiate you. I mean, what other console/handheld can do what those can do?

Also, the PS3-PS3 gap, I think, was the reason the PS3 was dragged down for the first year or so of it's life. I mean, it was like a PS2 but not a PS2. Its power needed a long time to be harnessed, meanwhile it was held back by the fact that it could not fully play the PS2/PSone games.

PS
Last thing. If I have you right, you think a console has to have changed in comparison to the current-gen to feel next-gen. However, I feel you only consider a change forward as change. Sometimes going in a direction other than straight forward counts as change too. Hence, why we consider the Wii [and the WiiU in the future] and the 3DS as better consoles than their past iterations. I think that's why you can't understand us "ninty fanboys".[/quote]

Developers can also only go as far as their consoles. It's not like you can have a game that looks great and has a giant open world with no issues or anything on a N64.

Features I expect are unknown to me, I'm just hoping they'll provide more than what is the norm currently.

The PS3 was kept down for the first year or so because of its price. $600 was not a good price against the $250 Wii and the (I think) $400 Xbox. Once it got the Slim model it started getting a huge pick up. Also, first edition PS3 models could play PS2 and PSX games.

I want my games to go straight forward then. I don't want companies constantly sidestepping as an excuse to not upgrade their tech.

Why do people say 3DS doesn't have games??? WTF??? It's been out less than 5 months in Japan, is fully backward-compatible with DS software, and most of its flagship titles have been announced at the very least, ensuring that there ARE games to play in it. Jeez.


@Guild - Then you and Ninty fanboys will just have to agree to disagree.

I frankly think that saying there are hardware limitations in the case of software is a poor excuse for a cop out. Okay, hardware does give you the limitations, but that isn't in any means a lock on creativity, software-wise. Processing power just doesn't compare to a good experience, IMHO.

PS
I don't like companies who keep their foot on the gas as they go along without a steering wheel, LOL. I dunno, I just hate things that are all power and glitz and whatever. Going hardware-crazy is just clear escalation in my books, when there are a myriad ways to create good products.

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3761251' date='Jul 7 2011, 12:22 PM']Why do people say 3DS doesn't have games??? WTF??? It's been out less than 5 months in Japan, is fully backward-compatible with DS software, and most of its flagship titles have been announced at the very least, ensuring that there ARE games to play in it. Jeez.[/quote]
Dude, I didn't say there weren't any games, I'm saying I don't like the line up much, only 3 games caught my attention.

[quote name='Shinigami357' post='3761251' date='Jul 7 2011, 11:22 PM']Why do people say 3DS doesn't have games??? WTF??? It's been out less than 5 months in Japan, is fully backward-compatible with DS software, and most of its flagship titles have been announced at the very least, ensuring that there ARE games to play in it. Jeez.[/quote]
Perhaps almost everything for now doesn't appeal to most?

And DS compatibility... People rather play it on a XL (based on a poll my friend made on a local forum), cuz it appeared a little blurry on the 3DS. People are sensitive when it comes to this.

Consoles will have a tougher start, the factor is just time.