Argument about America

I wrote a status on my Facebook to get a message across and it sparked a debate/argument

Warning, huge amounts of text
Here's the original Status: ( Removing names just in case they don't want them here )
Two planes landed in England today.. One brought back a group of over paid, under achieveing footballers.. The other brought back 7 coffins, each with a Union Jack draped over them.. Footballers play for our country.. Soldiers FIGHT for our country. Footballers give 90 minutes, soldiers give there's lifes. I know who I respect more.. ...R.I.P Lads.

and the comments

L : was one difference. they both got fucked over by the americans


H : L, shut up. Just seriously..


L : i hate everything america stands for


Da: and just to add, if you didn't know already, even thought the Americans have their faults, and a lot at that, they have also saved hundreds of our men, both the Uk and the US are in this together, we're both losing men and its a serious matter, it relates nothing to us not winning a match of football, football means nothing, were as without soldiers from the UK and all of our allies we could be dead, or living in a communism


B: whats a communism sorry x is it afghan that were fighting against?? x

Da: No exactly, were not fighting Afghan, were fighting the Taliban, which have tryed to force there way into Afghan government using scare tactics ect, were are trying to save the country by fighting against the Taliban and forming a new, democratic government, and a communism is like the Nazi's, they control your life, you cant vote ect and you are not allowed to have your own opinion or you are punished


L: firstly. communism is actually more merciful and 'correct' than capitalism but western propaganda convinced the world that it is 'wrong'

secondly. hundreds of sailors died because america were letting german u-boats into british trade lanes in the atlantic.
-plus whilst we were trying to save western europe they did fuck all. millions were either killed or put into concentration camps
-whilst our innocent civillians were being bombed by the the luftwahffe they did nothing
-when britain was put under siege they did nothing. thousands of children and the elderly died due to malnutrition

when japan (nazi allies) bombed pearl harbour the 'noble heroes' came to the aid of a scarred europe. the damage had already been done. america claimed the victory through the use of the media and prospered from it.

FUCK AMERICA. I'D RATHER BE RUSSIAN


L: nazi's were fascist danny. USSR were communist, plus you are allowed to vote, you get equal rights, there are no trade unions (good and bad) and there is no poverty because everyone has equal rights


Da: Actually L, the reason America didn't join was first they didnt have to as we had no agreements stating so, and second, as i country they were thinking about there own public, they took a tactical decision to not lose any of there own, they joined after pearl harbour because they had been dragged into the war, they needed to retaliate. I can assure you that if we didn't need to join in the wars, we wouldnt of, but we had agreements saying we had to, would you rather sit back and save your own country, millions of people, or jump into a war which doesnt involve you and risk the lives of even more innocent people, And yes I will agree that I was wrong about the Nazi's, the reason i used them as an example is propaganda made them look like I described and seeing as i was trying to explain the nature of communism becky would of knew what the nazis were like, so i used it in context to what she already knew/had been told


L : germany couldnt reach america without conquering britain because of naval fleets of THE REST OF THE COMMONEWEALTH (they diddnt have any 'coalition' agreements with britain either but again saved millions of lives relying on supply fleets) patrolling the atlantic, destroying u-boats. plus if america had joined in early they wouldnt risk a single US civilian and would of saved millions of frech, jews, dutch, polish, czhech, belgian and more.. plus. i agree with the example you gave. hate of the germans was immense in the cold war (because of WWII) so the americans portraid the USSR an facist. europe sided with america becuase the found the 'communist revolution' different and scary.... in short america bullied russia until they gave up their heratage, honour and in a sense, freedom!


Da: Yeh, but again it just backs up my point that they had no real reason to join I war that wasn't theirs to fight, they had no quarrels with Germany themselves and you can't say that no American's would of died because the Germans were not just going to give up, they made there decision and that was to stay out of (mainly ) Europes war and save the lives of their own soldiers. We made a decision just like this of our own, but we decided we would help ( I'm talking about Iraq ). It's all about the people in power at the time, you can't hate all of America or even the government because it has changed. The past is the past, they made the bad decision, it wasn't necessarily the wrong one but it did cause problems and deaths for a lot of innocent people. The country has changed now and since then our relations have become a heck of a lot stronger, you can't keep on hating for something that is the past, you just have to move on. I can honestly say without the Americans now, in Iraq and Afghanistan we would have had a lot more deaths ( and I know you're going to say without them we wouldn't be there but we would of ended up there eventually ) and I agree with your points about the Cold war, at least we both agree that the thought on countries is based on propaganda and the reality of the situation can be immensely different


L : i find it merciless and disgusting that they stood by and watch europe destroy itslef and pull down millions of innocent people die with it. like i said australia, south africa, new zealand, india etc.. did what they could to help.

plus i still HTE them because half of them are intolerant, illegitamate, racist, inbed scum and the other half are pompous, ignorant twats

whay did the get involved in afganistan but not WW2? afgan isnt any of their buisness (but i think we both know why they aree really there)


W : i think you should live on the planet rock. because then you can share your nasty approach to brave NICE people dying for their country.


Da: The reason they went to Aghanistan was because they were already fighting the taliban, and when you say half that is just a stereotype, its the same here in Britain, we are not as different as people may think, it just shows more in America because there is a larger population and the country is more media based than here

Again it was a bad decision not to help but it was a decision which they had a valid argument for, and times have changed, the government now know that that was a bad time for the US and with hindsight things could of been done a lot better. All I'm asking is that you appreciate what America has done, and try to forget what they either haven't or didn't do right. The UK has its flaws to, we never went to Somalia, we never went to Vietnam, you could say that we just sat there and watched innocent Americans die ?

I know it is different with places like Vietnam but the context and meaning can be carried across. And just to point out you kinda back up my argument slightly by saying '' Watching Europe destroy ITSELF '' We did this to ourselves, Chamberlain just watched Czech get taken over and actually signed a treaty saying Hitler was allowed to do this, how can he make that choice, and it back fired on him in a big way, we have our flaw as well as everyone else, so to be brutal if you are hating America ( Which you should say US and South America is a totally different story ) then you should hate Britain to



L : Nice people? Is that because of what you see on the TV or because they are nice when tourists are about? Forget guns, america's most powerful weapon is the media. They make everything look great and Brainwash the world. I will retract my statement if you can explain why they started a war with Vietnam, Iraq and afganistan but sat back in WW2, let millions of innocents die and then enter it when fascist japan (Nazi allies) attack them.

I'm sticking up for all the unheard voices. They burned children alive because they wernt capitalist. Explain where 'NICE' comes in L. Please :/

They started wars with 2 countries for being communist Danny. It's not fair. The UK has it's flaws but we do what is FAIR. Hypocricy is rife in American history. What did Vietnam do wrong? America is a racist, arrogant, hate filled country covered up by bias lies


Da: Well I never said nice ( I know L did, just making sure you don't think I did ) but the reason they went in to Iraq was firstly because they had intelligence that Saddam Hussain had Nuclear weapons, Afghan is a different story and you may not believe it but we had been in Afghan before and far longer than the US, so we can be blamed for that, in fact they came in to aid us. They went into Vietnam because they wanted to stop the spread of Communism in asia, so they sided with the non communist Vietnam and fought. ( Which you have to remember they a huge amount of men and women, but didn't give up until there task had been completed )

Again they may have not made the right decision with WII but its the past, they learnt from their mistakes, you have a very valid argument but you can't blame the US as a whole, if anyone you can blame the government at the time. Not the US public, its like blaming our Public for moving into Iraq, that was Blair's decision, we could not change that, the most we could do was vote him out, just like all the US could do was vote out there president


H: L...Get over it, sorry not everyone can be perfect like you and make a 100% correct decision all of the time.


Da: Its not fair to attack people for being communist but its the way American has been brought up to believe, propaganda like you said has created the wrong view on communism, but that is not the fault of the public, but the fault of the Government and media. It's just like the hate of Jews by Germans, they didn't know any better, people believe people with power, it's a fact of life. It's like anyone, if your brought up to know something then you believe it.

This argument started because you said you hated all Americans, all I'm saying is only a small group is to blame, Soldiers are in my opinion the most bravest men in the world, no matter where the are from. It sounds horrible but I even respect the Nazi soldiers, Vietnam soldiers ect. Soldiers fight for their country and just do what they are told, they have no say in who they fight or why, they are told where to go and what to do, and the follow it.

You can't hate a soldier from anywhere as they are doing there job, just like the British soldiers are doing.


L: This will be my last post cos I'm going to bed.

I see America as bullies. They pick fights with inferior countries to assert their authority

America has a fear of communism. Like I said the IDEA of communism is fairer than capitalism. Thousands of innocents were horrificly burned alive (napalm) because they were different.

The hypocracy involved with America is unbelievable. The will happily join in wars like Iraq, afganistan, Vietnam ( that they have nothing to do with and have unconvincing reasons for doing so) but completely ignore Nazi Germany burning Jews, massicaring half of Europe and leaving Britain for dead because they might be a bit of a handfull.

Anyway I've told you my honest oppinions, if you don't like it it's fine. I've backed them up with ligitimate reasons.

Oh I'm also moving to switzerland becase Obama has just aimed a nuke at my house because of the above. JK

Peace out

Oh 1 more thing. American bombers are dropping bombs from 8000 ft because of the RPG risk and the bombs have been hitting allies, hospitals and schools because of the lack of accuracy. British planes have been dropping bombs from 500 ft as to stop this inevitability

I'm Da by the way and all except Da & L were female

Now please don't just post t;,dr, if you don't want to read it just leave

Thanks guys, what are your opinions on the matter

Comments

I infact didn't read it all.

But you can tell the character of a person by their opinion of troops.
You may NOT support the war, but atleast support the troops fighting for your rights.

I think it is disrespectful to dishonor a soldier fighting for your country on their own accord.
R.I.P. lads


Not to mention the guys view on America is obviously fucked.
 
I don't think L even read anything anyone else said Why would the Us get involved if they would just be sending people to die in WW2 They were forced to join the war because Japan attacked them.I don't understand L's circular reasoning.
 
plus i still HTE them because half of them are intolerant, illegitamate, racist, inbed scum and the other half are pompous, ignorant twats

Being intolerant of someone because they are intolerant? That makes sense.
 
In b4 virtual world war on the internet.
Nah, probably not, but I guess I can share an opinion.
L has a point with the propaganda, it's quite a predominant thing here in America.
If you watch "Bowling for Columbine" you'll see just how crazy the media is.
I don't really watch TV anymore.
Well I watch Comedy Central every now and then.
L's view on Communism in America is skewed.
I think Guild McCommunist is kinda a good example of a decent amount of Americans.
It's just that Communism at it's roots has good intent.
Communism has, however, been turned into the greater of evils due to our Cold War with Russia.
But that was a while ago.
You've just got old people who still believe that.
And people with crazy parents/grandparents.
America is making the shift toward less propaganda, though.
Obviously it's stopped working with Iraq as people seem to hate the war.
But that also goes back to respecting soldiers.
Which we should do.
So yeah.
If I'm being ignorant or misinformed please let me know.
 
because half of them are intolerant, illegitamate, racist, inbed scum and the other half are pompous, ignorant twats
This is true of every industrialized country in the world.
 
usa is the best 4ever plus we got jesus what the fuck does the rest of the world have ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? NOTHING
 
[quote name='bnwchbammer' post='2951120' date='Jun 30 2010, 07:47 AM']I think Guild McCommunist is kinda a good example of a decent amount of Americans.[/quote]I lol'd. I hope you were joking.
 
Why should America risk their brave soldiers in World War II if they don't have to? :glare:
Now, this statement can be countered by the argument "To make sure the fascists don't win" but really, don't poke your nose on an angry man's problem. If they didn't have to, then they shouldn't

Besides, don't blame America, blame the higher-ups. Soldiers and civilians had nothing to do with Iraqi War or Vietnam War, the government was the one who decide things, and the government doesn't really represent the thought of a nation as a whole

OUR government is one of the best example: many of our civilians are poor, but the representatives cried for $1200 laptops for each of them (there are around 200++ people)

I'd deny that they're our "democratically chosen" representatives any day
 
L sounds like a bit of a douche. What did the original post have to do with America anyway?

plus i still HTE them because half of them are intolerant, illegitamate, racist, inbed scum and the other half are pompous, ignorant twats

He calls us racist and ignorant but then blatantly clumps us all together just because we're American?
 
[quote name='chao1212' post='2952186' date='Jun 30 2010, 06:30 PM']L sounds like a bit of a douche. What did the original post have to do with America anyway?[/quote]

It didn't, he related to football ( I think I forgot to mention that bit ) and how we drew, then he went on to say he hates America :unsure:

He's just an idiot, who kept repeating the same point over and over again
 

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