[Foxi4]

It's indeed an overexageration to say that "all" games for the Vita will be console ports - only a fraction of them are PS3 games. The idea behind having the same game on the PS3 and the Vita is "playing the game on the PS3 when you're at home and then transferring your save onto the Vita game to carry on playing wherever you go", which is bloody brilliant. Sony's designing their portable around console games because that's what they're good at - the PSP was exactly the same, minus the second analog stick which by the way was requested by the fans themselves. They're playing it safe and know well what the PSP owners would want from the successor while at the same time extending their arms towards touchscreen lovers - how is that a bad thing? They're not creating an "uber console-like control scheme for all games", they're giving developers as many possibilities as they can so that they can create their own. As you said, there are games good for a 5 minute quicky - the ones you are suggesting. There are also games that are good for a longer sitting - the ones I enjoy more. In Vita's case then, there are full-fledged games on cartridges, there are also PSN Minis. There's also the middle-ground formed by fighting games which you can boot just for a quick spar or racing games which you could turn on just for a few laps.

My major point was that all of those games, regardless of the control scheme or complexity can be played on a portable nowadays. "Real-Time Saving", "Standby Mode" and "Using headphones" are the 3 major parts of this argument worth mentioning - have those available and no circumstances will bother you. Have a good enough screen on your portable and even playing on the face of the sun won't bother anyone.

I mentioned my case only, but both you and I are well-aware that I'm not the sore thumb in the world full of gamers - there are many-a-players who share the same point of view as mine. It would be quite bizzare if I was the only one thinking that with so much space and so many possibilities it would "probably be worth it" to use them.

To conclude, it really all is a matter of design. A really long, immersive and complex game *can* be created for a handheld device - it's just that the developers need to arm the player with tools that will facilitate playing it in the "harsh" conditions that you mentioned.

As for your "debate club" accuastion, I am merely showing off my personal stance when it comes to this subject. My opinion. I don't think I've twisted any evidence at all, I just thoroughly explained given cases to give you, duffmann and whoever else will be reading this a clear overview of my stance. Call me a sophist if you must, but at the end of the day, everything that was posted here were opinions, and everyone can agree or disagree with those.

EDIT: I like editing my posts. It gives fun twists to the discussion. Besides, sometimes when I re-read my post, I found it lacking, thus I add more.

Edited by Foxi4, 31 January 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Hyro-Sama]

This wall of debating/discussion text is ruining the thread. Take it somewhere else.

Edited by Hyro-Sama, 31 January 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[Foxi4]

Hyro-Sama, on 31 January 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

This wall of debating/discussion text is ruining the thread. Take it somewhere else.

Yes, now it's ruined.

Discussions and debates on a Forum - who would've thought...

Edited by Foxi4, 31 January 2012 - 06:13 AM.

[Midna]

It's funny how disagreeing parties gradually shift to a more neutral stance throughout a debate discussion. I have nothing to say about your post. Maybe we would have agreed with each other in the first place but were just stating certain parts of our views too forcefully.

Speaking of sore thumbs though, I hope the PS Vita doesn't have it's buttons so close to the edge of the console like the PSP does

Edit: Ehhhh, you're still treating it like a debate though... points, refutation, cases, conclusions, opponents... I quit debate club years ago, and only took the lessons I learned there with me, not the terms and objectives. Keep that style of argument if you want, but using the terms in this setting seems very off to me.

Edited by Midna, 31 January 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[Foxi4]

Midna, on 31 January 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

It's funny how disagreeing parties gradually shift to a more neutral stance throughout a debate discussion. I have nothing to say about your post. Maybe we would have agreed with each other in the first place but were just stating certain parts of our views too forcefully.

Speaking of sore thumbs though, I hope the PS Vita doesn't have it's buttons so close to the edge of the console like the PSP does

For once I have to agree. I must admit that the PSP's analog stick's position left alot to be desired. I'm pretty sure that my left thumb is dislodged by now, and I do hope that they fixed that. I think you're right - it really is a matter of preference and taste in games rather then the matter of dominance of one type over the other and I do apologize if I seemed a bit brash, but it's 6:28am, I slept about 2 hours tonight and I have an exam in the morning so my "fuse" may be quite short as of now.

[DiscostewSM]

Games are games. Play them where you want (if you can).

The PS3 is a very powerful machine, and while Sony says they want to hold it for the 10-yr life span, I don't think they'll be able to hold it for that long. As it was, early PS3 games utilized only up to 2 of the 6 available SPEs it contained (the 7th reserved for the OS) because developers didn't have access to those extra ones. When Sony unlocked those, games were able to utilize that extra power, but they can only get so much out of it before they hit a limit. While a game like Skyrim on the PS3 is having problems, it isn't just because of Bethesda programming abilities. The PC version requires a minimum of 2GB RAM to run normally, while the PS3 only has 256MB of main RAM (a bit less because the OS requires some). That's already a limit there. Future games that aren't exclusive to the PS3 will begin to hit limits when those same games will be running on Nintendo's and Microsoft's next-gen systems.

Then there's the next gen Sony console which will most likely have backwards compatibility. Unless the PS4 uses an upgraded version of the PS3's current hardware to allow them to run under virtualization, they'd have to either supply 2 separate sets of hardware in a single unit much like the early PS3 models did with having PS2 hardware under the hood also, or go with emulation (which imo is not feasible considering the unimaginable power required to even emulate the PS3). If they have to supply PS3 hardware in addition to the PS4 hardware to keep backward-compatibility, then that's just more cost to the final unit. I believe they want to stretch the PS3 as far as they can, allowing PS3 components to drop enough to where when they are ready to release the PS4, it won't cost as much. Of course, this depends on just how long they would need to stretch out the PS3's lifespan. If they can pull it off, then it'll be more power to them. But if not, then it'll hurt them a good deal.

[Foxi4]

DiscostewSM, on 31 January 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Games are games. Play them where you want (if you can).

The PS3 is a very powerful machine, and while Sony says they want to hold it for the 10-yr life span, I don't think they'll be able to hold it for that long. As it was, early PS3 games utilized only up to 2 of the 6 available SPEs it contained (the 7th reserved for the OS) because developers didn't have access to those extra ones. When Sony unlocked those, games were able to utilize that extra power, but they can only get so much out of it before they hit a limit. While a game like Skyrim on the PS3 is having problems, it isn't just because of Bethesda programming abilities. The PC version requires a minimum of 2GB RAM to run normally, while the PS3 only has 256MB of main RAM (a bit less because the OS requires some). That's already a limit there. Future games that aren't exclusive to the PS3 will begin to hit limits when those same games will be running on Nintendo's and Microsoft's next-gen systems.

Then there's the next gen Sony console which will most likely have backwards compatibility. Unless the PS4 uses an upgraded version of the PS3's current hardware to allow them to run under virtualization, they'd have to either supply 2 separate sets of hardware in a single unit much like the early PS3 models did with having PS2 hardware under the hood also, or go with emulation (which imo is not feasible considering the unimaginable power required to even emulate the PS3). If they have to supply PS3 hardware in addition to the PS4 hardware to keep backward-compatibility, then that's just more cost to the final unit. I believe they want to stretch the PS3 as far as they can, allowing PS3 components to drop enough to where when they are ready to release the PS4, it won't cost as much. Of course, this depends on just how long they would need to stretch out the PS3's lifespan. If they can pull it off, then it'll be more power to them. But if not, then it'll hurt them a good deal.

I don't think it'd be unreasonable to think that the PS4's CPU will have a very similar structure to the one we can find in a PS3 simply because the design appears to be working really efficiently. As far as the "RAM available" is concerned, let's not forget that a PC requires more RAM due to the heavy-weight OS it is running. Windows 7 alone requires about 1-1,5GB to run stable, even more in its 64bit flavour. Consoles don't have that problem - the executables are made for one specific hardware build and one only. Admittedly there isn't nearly enough space in RAM for textures and such, but from what I noticed, it didn't stop developers from successfuly porting games like Skyrim to the PS3. Moreover, PS3 games *still* show superior visual quality compared to "the everyday average PC". I'm not talking about rigs specifically built for gaming, of course - those always have the cutting edge, but at a hefty price.

Sony does indeed need a successor for the PS3, but what it's lacking is not so much "processing power" as that seems sufficient, but as you mentioned, RAM memory and perhaps an updated GFX chip to support the latest Pixel Shading magic.

The XBox360 is definatelly making its final steps but the PS3 still has tiny bits of steam left in it. Give it a year, maybe two and a successor will be announced, but not just yet. Sony invested a whole lot of money and attention into the Vita and into Vita-to-PS3 connectivity, I doubt that they'd want to remove the spotlight from it before it "pays for its own development".

[chris888222]

I only have one thing to say about Monster Hunter: who doesn't expect one on the Vita anyway.

I really hope a limited edition bundle will come out. Maybe a MH Portable Frontier/4 bundle?

As for 3G, Capcom did say initially that they have no plans to localize it. The Escape Adventure game (forgot the full name) was also the same with 'no localization plans', but a lot really expects it to be localized.

[KingdomBlade]

Hyro-Sama, on 31 January 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

This wall of debating/discussion text is ruining the thread. Take it somewhere else.

... This post, sir, is quite stupid. Take this post somewhere else.

As for the whole VITA OMFG BAD NOT PLAY CASUAL GAMEZ MAY GOD thing, I'd like to mention that the Pokemon games aren't really "pick-up and play" type of games. I don't know anyone who doesn't continuously play Pokemon for at least a half-hour at a time, since it's impossible to abosrb yourself in the game within 15 minutes. Pokemon is actually an immersive game, most especially after you finish the game.

There should be a good blend of casual and hardcore. I want both games that I can play at the bus stop and at the actual bus. The PSV has plenty of good casual-type games such as Lumines, Sights and Sounds, Katamari, Little Deviants, LittleBigPlanet, Modnation Racers and Wipeout 2048, however the majority of these good-looking games are being overlooked for more similar and popular games on the rival platform, the 3DS merely because of the franchise names. That's the primary reason why the PSV is being looked at as a purely hardcore platform, however looking at the current releases and upcoming games, there appears to be a pretty good balance of casual and hardcore. The marketing for the PSV is skewed in the direction of hardcore because marketing it to those who intend to play casually will likely pick the 3DS because of the already-established reputation from the DS.

I'd say this; due to the wide increase of mobile gaming, casual games on handhelds will likely have a slightly more diffcult time. Since the majority of the people who got DS's were ridiculously casual gamers (since the DS was first bundled with Nintendogs), some of that causal audience may have shifted to mobile gaming. Which is why I believe that it may be crucial at this point to not lean TOO heavily towards casual games.

Edited by KingdomBlade, 31 January 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Hyro-Sama]

@ KingdomBlade


My post stays.

[tk615]

chris888222, on 31 January 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

I only have one thing to say about Monster Hunter: who doesn't expect one on the Vita anyway.

I really hope a limited edition bundle will come out. Maybe a MH Portable Frontier/4 bundle?

As for 3G, Capcom did say initially that they have no plans to localize it. The Escape Adventure game (forgot the full name) was also the same with 'no localization plans', but a lot really expects it to be localized.

If they ever did it... I would have gotten the Monster Hunter 3DS limited addition console.
It looked sooo prewwty! Hopefully they will get the localisation sorted.

Edited by tk615, 31 January 2012 - 05:47 PM.

[Erdnaxela]

If you talking about that monster hunter vita Sony france said, it was a false rumour sadly.
->Here

Quote

le nouveau Directeur Général de PlayStation France ne sait pas si le jeu est prévu ou non sur PS Vita, mais sait juste que cette licence est très forte au Japon.

=
The new France CEO don't know if the game is scheduled to appear on Vita or not, but know it's a strong license in Japan.

Edited by Erdnaxela, 02 February 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[tbgtbg]

kthnxshwn, on 30 January 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Like every other generation.

Well, they were last this generation (PS3), but the gen before that (PS2) they were first (well, 2nd if you count Dreamcast), then the gen before THAT (PS1) they were in the middle, just ever so slightly after Saturn, but still well before Nintendo 64.

[Joe88]

tbgtbg, on 05 February 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

kthnxshwn, on 30 January 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Like every other generation.

Well, they were last this generation (PS3)

they were second, the wii was released a week later