Hardware Would you buy an HD GamePad (v2.0) if Nintendo released it?

[grossaffe]

Okay, substitute 3DS with New 3DS or whatever comes after that. One thing I'd have an issue with is buying a separate controller that would only use direct communication like the Wii U <-> Wii U GamePad. It greatly limits its working range. Nintendo calls their feature Off TV Play because it's exactly that. Sony however has Remote Play and that works wherever you are as long as you have an internet connection. The good thing about Sony is that they made Remote Play better with the PS4 as it supports a feature called Direct Connect and that's pretty much what Off TV Play is with very low latency. If Nintendo can't offer the same flexibility like Sony does, then there's little point to having a second screen, either bundled or separately.

I must admit I was unaware that the PS4 added in the option to directly connect rather than go through a router. Anyways, I have little interest in connection that does not offer low latency, so the online remote play option does nothing for me.

edit: it looks like even with the direct connection, the PS4's remote play still suffers from latency on the wrong side of 100ms.

 

[aofelix]

What are you on about? You can stream HD content to a portable device as we speak - the NVidia Shield is a good example here. To be fair, it only does 720p wirelessly, but that's still considered HD.

technology as in what is AFFORDABLE.

How much does the Nvidia Shield cost? Here in the UK it costs more than a Wii U.

 

[aofelix]

Lost? This is not a competition, we're having a discussion and as of yet I haven't seen more from you than personal remarks. If "that guy got me there" then at least provide a comment how.

Sore loser.

 

[Foxi4]

technology as in what is AFFORDABLE.

How much does the Nvidia Shield cost?

It's $199, but there are cheaper solutions.

 

[aofelix]

My point is that its just not financially viable to have 720p on the gamepad and keep the console affordable. In all honesty, even the gamepad as it is is already a financial burden on the total cost of the console and it can be debated as to whether it should even be included.

Next gen would have been perfect to drop a tablet/gamepad with a screen as the technology would have been cheap as hell in 5 years time.

 

[Foxi4]

At least we agree to that extent - the gamepad is an unnecessary burden, just like the Kinect was. As for streaming resolution, we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no gamepad equivalent on the market - rightfully so since the idea is insane and it makes more sense to release a companion system instead.

 

[shinkodachi]

Next gen would have been perfect to drop a tablet/gamepad with a screen as the technology would have been cheap as hell in 5 years time.

You mean current technology will be cheap in 5 years time. We'll probably have consoles aiming for 4K gaming already in 5 years time, so the bare minimum is to have 1080p on a companion tablet if the next Nintendo system is to have something like the Wii U GamePad. I'm pretty sure in 5 years people won't pay one bit to look at a 480p screen, so we can assume the cost stays relatively the same as the technology around it matures all the time.

edit: it looks like even with the direct connection, the PS4's remote play still suffers from latency on the wrong side of 100ms.

This is true. Remote Play uses different compression (H.264 as opposed to MJPEG) and the processing takes longer time. Nintendo went with MJPEG because it's quicker to process, so Off TV Play still has the edge over Remote Play in a direct connection.

 

[aofelix]

Okay so 720p on a small screen is fine for you but in 5 years, 1080p is necessary for your eyes?

Niknodachi you need to get over your resolution obsession. 4k 480p 1080p.

 

[shinkodachi]

Okay so 720p on a small screen is fine for you but in 5 years, 1080p is necessary for your eyes?

I'm saying that 480p today is adequate, not great. 720p would've been very good. In five years? We already have 4K tablets in the making. I imagine in 5 years we'll have cheap Android tablets in all sizes with 4K and a $99 price tag. And you'd think 480p would still make the cut in 5 years?

 

[aofelix]

no 720p will be fine though.

 

[uyjulian]

8k? 16k? 32k? 64k? 128k? 256k? 512k? 1m.

Yeah, yeah, pixels, screens, we will still have screens in 20 years?

Anyway, if nintendo keeps with the gamepads, Nintendo might release a new console better than the Wii U in 6 years, but 4 gamepads compatible. (And extra gamepad optional.) I doubt Nintendo will release 720i gamepad, maybe next 2 generation.

 

[shinkodachi]

You want to buy a console with a 720p tablet in 2020?

 

[aofelix]

yes if the price was right and the main console was powered sufficiently.

1080p on a screen as small as the gamepad is really neither here or not there for myself.

of course you will probably want 4k on a screen that small because you like your resolutions. respect.

 

[Foxi4]

People here are missing the point. The problem with the Wii U's tablet isn't that it's 854x480, the problem is that it's displaying muddy, grainy graphics because the core console has a much higher native resolution and live-downscales the image (poorly) for the gamepad. This is a "busy idiot" scenario where you render a high quality image just to spoil it by poor scaling. Ideally the gamepad should have a native resolution equal to that of the system, otherwise it'll always suffer from artifacts, blur and other crap the gamepad deals with now.

 

[shinkodachi]

People here are missing the point. The problem with the Wii U's tablet isn't that it's 854x480, the problem is that it's displaying live-downscaled, muddy and grainy graphics because the core console has a much higher native resolution and downscales the image for the gamepad. This is a "busy idiot" scenario where you render a high quality image just to spoil it by poor scaling. Ideally the gamepad should have a native resolution equal to that of the system, otherwise it'll always suffer from artifacts, blur and other crap the gamepad deals with now.

One other factor not talked about here is that the Wii U already operates in limited-range RGB over HDMI and downgrades the colorspace to YUV 4:2:0 before transmitting it to the Wii U GamePad. So Nintendo players not only have crappy picture quality to begin with, but it's made even crappier as it arrives on the second screen.

(Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-nintendo-wii-u-review)

 

[Foxi4]

One other factor not talked about here is that the Wii U already operates in limited-range RGB over HDMI and downgrades the colorspace to YUV 4:2:0 before transmitting it to the Wii U GamePad. So Nintendo players not only have crappy picture quality to begin with, but it's made even crappier as it arrives on the second screen.

(Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-nintendo-wii-u-review)

Also a problem, yes. As far as resolution is concerned, people should be more worried about the PPI rather than the actual native resolution of the screen, it's the size of the physical pixel that visually "degrades quality".

 

[Deleted User]

I've always thought that the gamepad gives me a better quality picture than my HDTV does (apart from the f#$%ed up reds). I'm guessing I have some really shit TV. It looks like I'm wrong, but I thought the gamepad was better due to the anti alising.

 

[aofelix]

yeah your tv must be terrible

 

[shinkodachi]

I thought the gamepad was better due to the anti alising.

Are you saying jaggie galore is better than your TV?

 

[grossaffe]

People here are missing the point. The problem with the Wii U's tablet isn't that it's 854x480, the problem is that it's displaying muddy, grainy graphics because the core console has a much higher native resolution and live-downscales the image (poorly) for the gamepad. This is a "busy idiot" scenario where you render a high quality image just to spoil it by poor scaling. Ideally the gamepad should have a native resolution equal to that of the system, otherwise it'll always suffer from artifacts, blur and other crap the gamepad deals with now.

The downscaling only happens for the mirrored off-TV play since it's rendering at 1080p for the TV and also sending it to the gamepad. In games that make use of the gamepad to be an actual second screen, they don't waste the processing rendering a 1080p image to downscale, but rather render it at the screen's native resolution.