Hacking Why do all the best 3DS hackers refuse to share their methods?

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SirByte

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The question the OP poses is a valid, legitimate question, in light of the "sharing is caring" Core Value most of us here have. If you have something others are interested in, why not copy and share and let's all be happy?

We can only guess at the real reasons;

1. Because of the dirty p1rat3s!
You can seriously question the validity of this reason on the 3DS platform. On the PS Vita for example, it would absolutely be a valid reason as there is zero piracy on it (save for the previous-gen emulation sandbox). Firmware <= 4.5 3DS XLs are still available today, new in box, at certain retail locations (think pharmacy chains), if you include regular 3DSes and include the 2nd hand market there are many more. People that want to use self-made copies, can and will.

2. Because of the *cough* dirty p1rat3s *wink* ... but only because I'm afraid The Corporates will come after me!
This, unfortunatly, is not without precedent. Even if you take proper care to release it anonymously (e.g. use a public WiFi hotspot outside of CCTV view with your favourite anonymizing linux live-stick), devs seldom develop vulnerabilities into exploits in absolute solitude and have collaborators, testers, etc. that may roll over for a wad of corporate cash and/or legal threats.

3. Because it's not ready yet.
Tinkering with internals that you do not understand 100% or are part of a chain of trust may lead to bricks (just think back how many PSPs were (semi)-bricked before Pandora came out, developing Custom Firmware). A good dev will try to take all circumstances into account they can think of and make it as idiot-proof as they can before release, because there are noobs who mean well, just do not (yet) know what they are doing. The drop-back to RealNAND when trying to update EmuNAND when not first setting up your Internet settings correctly is one of those situation you'd prefer to avoid. Doing It Right takes time.

4. Because Ninty will block it.
But that will likely happen anyway. The only reason this would stick is if you expect a big bundle deal coming up, with a mega-title included, ensuring plenty of available stock outfitted with your vulnerable firmware. But after that, the next bundle will come, and the next one after that.

5. Because I'm going to use the one exploit I currently have to find a couple more, as insurance against being locked out in a future update.
This is indeed always a likely outcome, and taking up insurance is in fact Best Practice amongst console reverse-engineers. For 3DS it's even more complicated, as you need both complicated userland exploits and kernel exploits. If Nintendo releases firmware 8.1.0 and blocks all your user-land exploits, your kernel exploits are useless until you find another userland.

6. Because the current hack is not "deep" enough.
The holy grail is to patch at a very low level in the chain of trust and be free of everything at higher levels, and hopefully in such a way that it cannot be fixed with a firmware update. For PSP, that was the IPL (boot0?) which did away with sigchecks completely.

Etc. etc.
 
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Dork

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Because if you really think these devs are retarded enough to believe that people just want exploits to play shit homebrew games than you're crazy.

In this day an age an exploit would really only be useful for game piracy and cheats, and that's up to the devs to decide if they want to release something that directly causes those two.
 

lismati

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The problem OP is stating is basically people going:
a) Where's my 8.0 free SD card rom loader, fucking elitist bastards.
b) "Stop being so fucking entitled to everything"

I think that if one doesn't get that hacks aren't made in a day, and things that Smea and co. have aren't ready, they are just a bit more daft compared to the "stop being brats" guys. I mean, this is internet, like, c'mon...
 

TemplarGR

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What bartimeaus91 said...

This means when you really simplify things, they have a vested interest in flashcarts staying in business.

The only thing they achieve by not releasing their hacks is to maintain a market for flashcarts. If and when they release a loader, flashcarts will die instantly.

I don't have a problem with that. It is their time and work, they have the right to try and monetize it. My problem is with those BS excuses and attitude towards the people that give them their money (pirates).
 
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DiscostewSM

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I just hope they can enable homebrew (and possibly DS loading from the flash card) while at the same time preventing 3DS piracy. I know it's a stretch for both of those together, but still. The DSTWO is nice, but I'd really like the power and capabilities that would come from the handheld itself (not to mention the battery life that is retained).
 

DragonSky

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Just buy the Gateway. It will have future updates and that is what hackers like smea not can do.
Don't see if there someone will ever release one.

Captain hook should be proud on him.
 

GorTesK

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there is only 1 reason, why they dont release their exploits... they all secretely met up in an underground pegan temple to chime in on an ageless, yet infinitely old diabolical summoning rhythm to call and ask their dark lord for guidance and when he appeared infront of them, he bestowed his wisdom uppon them and his words were "You shall not release anything, hence flarn2006 shall be annoyed about this fact eternally, mwahahaha."
so yup, it's definitely the OPs fault, because there always has to be someone to blame
 
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Thirty3Three

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I'm sure I speak for a lot here when I say the following:

If I were a hacker, and discovered a badass exploit, (think Vita/PSP exploit) I'd hold onto it and keep it private. That way there's a chance they wouldn't discover it and therefore not block it. Like with VHBL, they get blacklisted in the following firmware. If I were to find an exploit which no one else had, it'd be far less likely they'd blacklist it and I can keep playing my emulators/isos and whatnot even after I update to the next firmware.


There are reasons as to why they'd not want to release their exploits. People like Smealum are awesome. They're making theirs public. Honestly, I'd say that takes balls. He's a cool dude. It's like finding a million dollars on the ground, and distributing said money everyone. It's pretty damn humble once you think about it.
 

gamesquest1

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It pisses me off that 3DS hackers don't share their info secretly between each other, working as a team, instead of as separate egotistical jerkoffs.
That's because with every scene ever sharing = leaking! look at the wiiu exploit leaked when it's pretty much useless, I don't think the whole sharing exploits ever has a happy ending, pretty much every console I can think of with a hacking scene has leaks of half completed projects leading to people quitting the scene blah blah blah, I would prefer the job is finished properly than to have some nab trying to make a name for himself by leaking it with his name plastered all over it
 

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Some people do it for the achievement of doing it and not to help the scene as well which is totally up to them and If that's the case people shouldn't demand it. If people want it learn how to get into it and help the community. I'm starting to read up on stuff but no idea what I'm learning lmao
 
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Smealum and Bond697 come to mind. They've figured things out that could be great for the hacking community, including RAM editing! Nobody (AFAIK) has figured that out and released their findings. And Bond697 figured out how to decrypt ROMs, but won't tell people how, even though that's an essential step for being able to make mods/ROM hacks. Why is that?


Because they don't owe you anything. They are doing it for fun and experience, not so you can do your ROM hacks/mods.

Also a good reason not to release anything is not to get sued by <insert any company here you pissed off by releasing>. Many of these hackers are smart and have the common sense not to jeopardize their own future/career just so you, some person from the internet, can play pirated games or make ROM hacks/mods.
 
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bartimeaus91

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My problem is with those BS excuses and attitude towards the people that give them their money (pirates).

I know right. It's their attitude and their rubbish of excuses.


They are doing it for fun and experience, not so you can do your ROM hacks/mods.

Hah! This statement.
 

Nurio

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Why do you feel entitled to everything?
Because then Nintendo would just patch all their hard work. Why not just wait until they've got some full, working solution, instead of a half-assed one? No, better to go on feeling entitled.
Maybe I am misreading the OP, but in what way did he come off as entitled? To me, it just seems like he is either curious or perhaps slightly baffled. He did not come off as an entitled person.
 

the_randomizer

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Maybe I am misreading the OP, but in what way did he come off as entitled? To me, it just seems like he is either curious or perhaps slightly baffled. He did not come off as an entitled person.

That's how things roll around here, if anyone even has the audacity to question hackers' motives, you're automatically labeled as entitled and a dirty pirate. No wonder hackers avoid this place.
 

bartimeaus91

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Maybe I am misreading the OP, but in what way did he come off as entitled? To me, it just seems like he is either curious or perhaps slightly baffled. He did not come off as an entitled person.
That's how things roll around here, if anyone even has the audacity to question hackers' motives, you're automatically labeled as entitled and a dirty pirate. No wonder hackers avoid this place.

Sounds about right. Those negative and not really useful reply to the OP are actually some preset template replies.

Some classics like
  1. You dirty pirate
  2. You just want rom loaders
  3. Do it yourself
  4. I'm better than you
  5. I'm not obligated to share anything because I rock and you suck
  6. I swear I'm not in bed with flashcart companies
  7. If you don't believe every single word I'll say, I'll threaten to quit developing. There. You better start grovelling right about now.
  8. Are you a new dev? DON'T you dare release anything or I will threaten you... threateningly.
So I've listed about 8 preset replies above.
 

Blazer

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dammit, fuck piracy!

...is what I'd like to say but a few years ago I was a pirate too, and I'm on this forum, so I can't really say anything :|
 
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I don't see a point in sharing methods either. 99.9% of the time it just ends up leaked on a website *cough garyopa*.

Then you get all sorts of shit up threads with 70-80% of the people who don't know what to do with any of the source code. Go look at the WiiU exploit - half the posts in those threads are people that can't compile or use command line tools and just expect binaries or want to know an ETA on being finished. Then said people are the beta testers who sit there and bitch when X game isn't working properly and the dev hasn't fixed it yet.

While people may hate it for AP reason and hate me, Devolution was something that remained closed source and turned out to be pretty amazing. I'm still enjoying it on my WiiU. In time stuff will be released when it's ready. People accept the "when it's ready" from AAA gaming, don't see why they won't from anyone else.

Chances are that any devs who have the knowledge to do what they do have already shared it among other trusted devs. The public will get it in due time. Patience is key.
 
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