Trump's latest speech about Antifa taking down/vandalizing statues

[Joe88]

Is a problem though Antifa being pro-communism? I mean I might not like or even agree with something but if Neo Nazis can voice their opinions why not communists? Lets be honest though ALMOST everyone loves some form of socialism.

They are not looking to voice their opinions

 

[Stephano]

Curious how do you define crybabies?

People who think they are special and get offended by everything someone else says.
People don't seem to have a backbone like they used to. I get called names all the time for being "x" or liking "y"
The best thing i can do is take it like a man and move on. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life or causes bad legislation. Whats the harm? (except someones precious feewings)

Or at least, thats how i think

 

[Subtle Demise]

Both sides, backbiting, bickering back and forth, it makes me want to cry for this country

If everybody voted libertarian, it wouldn't be like this.

 

[smile72]

People who think they are special and get offended by everything someone else says.
People don't seem to have a backbone like they used to. I get called names all the time for being "x" or liking "y"
The best thing i can do is take it like a man and move on. As long as it doesn't affect my personal life or causes bad legislation. Whats the harm? (except someones precious feewings)

Or at least, thats how i think

Ah, I feel the same.

They are not looking to voice their opinions

That wasn't my point though....He was attacking them for being pro-communist.... and actually that's unfair as white nationalists also can be violent...until this event I had never even heard of antfa however I have met white nationalists.(good ol' southern Illinois)...so I can say....while I agree with neither...antifa is the better (but still dreadful)of the neither option. But I have to say I am a nonviolent person...mostly. Again i agree with neither.

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If everybody voted libertarian, it wouldn't be like this.

Ummm but for those of us who aren't libertarian that's not helpful advice. In fact I disagree with most libertarians on the role of the government.

 

[Hanafuda]

Is a problem though Antifa being pro-communism? I mean I might not like or even agree with something but if Neo Nazis can voice their opinions why not communists? Lets be honest though ALMOST everyone loves some form of socialism.

Well the Communist regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot killed many times over the death toll of the Third Reich. So yeah, it's a problem. I'm opposed to Fascist AND Communist influence on politics in my country. Of course, Antifa is also free and has the right to peacefully protest whatever they want. They just don't. From what I've seen of the facts re: Charlottesville, the 'white-supremacist' rally, while full of people I have no use for, was not engaged in anything but peaceful demonstration against the removal of the Robt. E. Lee statue until the Antifa bunch, whose permit to assemble was for a location about a mile away(?), stormed them. The ensuing riot resulted from Antifa's interference.

 

[lostboysteve]

Curious how do you define crybabies?

Depends on the mood that I'm in.

An lgbtq pride rally that includes children and is more suited for a porn set, that bothers me. Those are cry babies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Subtle Demise]

Thank you so much!
From Georgia
Well, in all seriousness I have read this stuff before....but the biggest reason for the Civil War was due to the possible prohibition of slavery in the Southern States.... I won't deny States rights played a part in the secession however it was mostly due to the difference in opinions between the North and the South on slavery.

I read through those articles. I don't think there should have been a war at all. The North retaliated for the secession, it was not out of some humanitarian desire to end slavery. The necessity and demand for slavery would have eventually declined as technology and agricultural science improved, it would have been eradicated by the time of the industrial revolution probably.

After that, I'm sure the confederacy would have rejoined the union or at least become a valuable ally and trading partner.

 

[Stephano]

Depends on the mood that I'm in.

An lgbtq pride rally that includes children and is more suited for a porn set, that bothers me. Those are cry babies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now, if someone is gay, i do not hate them. While i may not agree with their life decisions, i don't love that person any less.
What i hate is all this "Pride" stuff? These gay people, they are not special. I am not special. They shouldn't get a day, no one should. If someone did something FANTASTIC for the better of all mankind, then they should. But coming out? No, thats not hard. "But people will criticize me!!!" .......Its 2017. If someone doesn't come out as gay, then they are evil cis white scum.

In short. No one is special. So they need to grow a pair (lel) and keep to themselves as many people already do.

 

[Subtle Demise]

Ummm but for those of us who aren't libertarian that's not helpful advice. In fact I disagree with most libertarians on the role of the government.

What do you think the role of government should be? Put simply, for me their role is to protect people from each other (definitely not from themselves). There's more to it than that obviously, but I think other libertarians would disagree with me that regulation of big business is good.

 

[Hanafuda]

Ah, I feel the same.

That wasn't my point though....He was attacking them for being pro-communist.... and actually that's unfair

No it's not, but I already explained why.

as white nationalists also can be violent...

OK, so people can be violent. But was it accurate for the media to report that the violence in Charlottesville was, "white nationalist violence?"

example: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thom...ce-spills-onto-the-streets-in-charlottesville

It's a one-way street according to this reporter. Antifa can prod, incite, club, thrown urine & shit bombs, use homemade flame throwers against the "Nazis", but apparently that's just good clean protesting.

until this event I had never even heard of antfa

Then you're underinformed. Antifa goes back to 1932. As for in the US, they played a major role in the Inauguration Day riot in D.C. back in January, so you should know at least that much.

 

[smile72]

Well the Communist regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot killed many times over the death toll of the Third Reich. So yeah, it's a problem. I'm opposed to Fascist AND Communist influence on politics in my country. Of course, Antifa is also free and has the right to peacefully protest whatever they want. They just don't. From what I've seen of the facts re: Charlottesville, the 'white-supremacist' rally, while full of people I have no use for, was not engaged in anything but peaceful demonstration against the removal of the Robt. E. Lee statue until the Antifa bunch, whose permit to assemble was for a location about a mile away(?), stormed them. The ensuing riot resulted from Antifa's interference.

ugh...I deleted my response...while trying to fix this mess of a post...well you are just mainly talking about how communism devolves into totalitarian dictatorship and while I'm not nor do I believe in Communism. I still think they hvae the right to whatever they believe in.

I read through those articles. I don't think there should have been a war at all. The North retaliated for the secession, it was not out of some humanitarian desire to end slavery. The necessity and demand for slavery would have eventually declined as technology and agricultural science improved, it would have been eradicated by the time of the industrial revolution probably.

After that, I'm sure the confederacy would have rejoined the union or at least become a valuable ally and trading partner.

Gonna be honest I totally disagree with those opinions. There was a need for a war. Obviously it was not out of desire to end slavery! Even the Emancipation Proclamation was designed as a war tactic as it didn't impact states like Maryland as they sided with the Union.Nobody thinks so.
Yes slavery would have ended BUT far later. And honestly I just can't imagine the South becoming drastically better like ending slavery and blacks getting equal rights at the same time. So honestly I think that's nonsense. My opinion. I'm glad Lincoln led the Union to victory.

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Now, if someone is gay, i do not hate them. While i may not agree with their life decisions, i don't love that person any less.
What i hate is all this "Pride" stuff? These gay people, they are not special. I am not special. They shouldn't get a day, no one should. If someone did something FANTASTIC for the better of all mankind, then they should. But coming out? No, thats not hard. "But people will criticize me!!!" .......Its 2017. If someone doesn't come out as gay, then they are evil cis white scum.

In short. No one is special. So they need to grow a pair (lel) and keep to themselves as many people already do.

This totally bothers me....you don't understand at all...coming out is FUCKING hard and especially when you grow up somewhere where they tell you everything about you is wrong. That's why we need pride to tell people you should be glad to be gay because there are still MANY people telling us our life is valueless. Well, I won't deny your opinions as I grew up with an Aunt who said the same about Protestants.

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What do you think the role of government should be? Put simply, for me their role is to protect people from each other (definitely not from themselves). There's more to it than that obviously, but I think other libertarians would disagree with me that regulation of big business is good.

I do believe in regulating big business but as you see I live in Japan. I believe the government here does far too little for our economy and should be regulating it more....so that should hint I'm quite leftist.

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No it's not, but I already explained why.




OK, so people can be violent. But was it accurate for the media to report that the violence in Charlottesville was, "white nationalist violence?"

example: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thom...ce-spills-onto-the-streets-in-charlottesville

It's a one-way street according to this reporter. Antifa can prod, incite, club, thrown urine & shit bombs, use homemade flame throwers against the "Nazis", but apparently that's just good clean protesting.




Then you're underinformed. Antifa goes back to 1932. As for in the US, they played a major role in the Inauguration Day riot in D.C. back in January, so you should know at least that much.

First it is unfair...you should understand the difference between "Communism" as performed by countries and actual communism. Which you should know has never actually existed in this world. Unlike Capitalism Communism is not flexible...what you are referencing is a form of socialism which failed because the countries were NOT the types of countries where communism was expected to exist in... next no it wasn't fair but when did i agree to defend their actions moving on....and wow I did not know about that but I also don't care about FDR so....but when I have time I will google that later.

 

[Hanafuda]

ugh...I deleted my response...while trying to fix this mess of a post...well you are just mainly talking about how communism devolves into totalitarian dictatorship and while I'm not nor do I believe in Communism. I still think they hvae the right to whatever they believe in.

I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).

 

[smile72]

I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).

And umm who cares. I'm not defending them. Nor do I care about Trump.

 

[GhostLatte]

The Civil War was not about slavery! The confederate States felt that the federal government had too much power and tried to secede from the rest of the union. Well, it didn't work, and now every aspect of our lives is regulated in some way. We've lost more freedom since then, which is ironic for a war that was supposedly about freedom.

Abraham Lincoln also isn't the savior everyone makes him out to be. The original plan was to send the slaves back to Africa, but I think they only didn't because it just wouldn't have been feasible. Not to mention suspension of habeus corpus and other slights against the constitution.

Don't forgot sectionalism!

 

[CallmeBerto]

I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).

This!!

Antifa started it and this was planned. The major ordered the police to stand down when Antifa came as he wanted to break it up once the violance started.

 

[Hanafuda]

And umm who cares. I'm not defending them. Nor do I care about Trump.

His speech about this is the thread topic.

 

[smile72]

His speech about this is the thread topic.

Yes,I know that...but I'll be honest...I came here mostly to see what everyone's opinion were. That's it. When I find something interesting I reply.

 

[Subtle Demise]

Yes slavery would have ended BUT far later. And honestly I just can't imagine the South becoming drastically better like ending slavery and blacks getting equal rights at the same time. So honestly I think that's nonsense. My opinion. I'm glad Lincoln led the Union to victory.

It took over 100 years after the Civil War for blacks to finally have civil rights. I think things would have been better without the war, as the emancipation would have been voluntary as opposed forced, and racial tensions probably would not be as bad as they are now.

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Anyway those antifa guys look like fascists themselves

 

[Hanafuda]

First it is unfair...you should understand the difference between "Communism" as performed by countries and actual communism. Which you should know has never actually existed in this world. ...

Hahaha. I almost missed this tired argument. Ok, so the Communism that has been practiced by Communist nations has not been real Communism. So what???? You could probably say the same about "real Nazism." .... Darn that Hitler, he fucked it all up. That wasn't real Nazism. LOL what difference does it make? Hitler was a Nazi, and look at what he did. Stalin and Mao were Communists, and look at what they did.

Whatever pure theoretical form of an ideology you've got, it's NEVER going to happen in the real world. Maybe in a microcosm social experiment, but not at nation-scale. Human nature (greed, corruption, politics, lust for power) and the realities of the physical world (food, water, infrastructure needs, wars/defense, natural disasters) will always force an ideology to compromise. We don't practice pure capitalism, neither Hitler or Mussolini presided over pure fascism, and there's never been a country that follows 'real' Communism. But the track record for the countries that adhered to Communism throughout the 20th century is tragically clear. Hitler and the Nazis killed millions, but Communist governments have killed tens of millions.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I have gathered quite a bit of information from that incident, and i got to say, i was bamboozled.
From what i've seen, a good portion of people at that ralley were racists/kkk/ect. The flyers and signs and what not were distributed by white nationalist groups.
But that raises a question, how did your average Joe come to the idea that it was a just a friendly southern pride protest and how many of the people were just normal people.
If i were to take a guess. I would say about 50/50.
Then there is the antifa side...... mostly just cancer.

I'm sorry, but normal people protesting a statue being removed don't carry torches and chant "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us!"

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I do too. And, so do the Nazis. What neither has the right to do is interfere when the other bunch of idiots is speaking their mind, and have gotten permits from the local government for a space/time to do so. And in Charlottesville, Antifa brought their violence to the white-supremacist area. I mean, these two groups totally deserve each other, but the media in reporting it only as 'white supremacist violence' is clearly showing their bias. Question is, why do they have that bias, and why was it so objectionable for the President to say out loud what we know is true (they both took part in the rioting/violence).

The thing that's objectionable is a) the Nazis very clearly stated they were doing what they were because they feel they are backed by President Trump, who has backpedaled out of his incredibly half-assed statement of rejection into a position of what could really only be described as support, and b) he refuses to uncouple the violent Antifa members from the entirety of the counterprotesters, the majority of whom were entirely peaceful (some even offering lifesaving treatment after the car attack), or only violent as a protective measure as the situation escalated. The same could absolutely not be said about the Nazis, many of whom arrived in full makeshift riot gear