Homebrew [SNEmulDS] Rebirth the project and update it for the last DKP

BassAceGold

Testicles
Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
496
Trophies
1
XP
441
Country
Canada
Here is my observation for those who are hoping for better background layer handling.

The SNES video hardware supports 4 background layers with each tile existing on a foreground plane or a background plane, effectively creating a per tile layering situation per background.
The NDS hardware does support 4 background layers, but lacks the hardware for the tile priority, thus creating the current priority issues.

There are of course ways around this, some snes games may only use one or two background layers, so the extra two free background layers on the NDS could be used to simulate the extra tile planes. However, for games that use more than 2 background layers, a software solution would be needed to generate the correct layering. This software method would be much slower than using direct hardware and could potentially make some games unplayable.

Basically, the NDS hardware itself cannot be used to create perfect layering. A software solution must be added and it may or may not be worth it due to potential performance loss... at least on regular NDS hardware, DSi may have enough power for a mix of software/hardware solution.
 

Mbmax

Homebrew addicted
OP
Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
2,274
Trophies
0
Website
Visit site
XP
401
Country
Hey guys ! I'm glad you are considering to test the current work.
BTW, it's far to be at the level of the WIP2 version. There is still a lot of work to do.
The issue with the virtual memory isn't fixed and there is problems with the dsi mode now.

I never released any binaries because of those issues. ;)
 

WiiUBricker

News Police
Banned
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Messages
7,827
Trophies
0
Location
Espresso
XP
7,485
Country
Argentina
I finished with testing a bunch of games and sadly as expected there are no improvements at all yet compared to the last 2007 release of SNEmulDS (at least I didn't noticed any). In fact, it's even worse than before :(

@[member='BassAceGold']: I think people can live with layering issues here and there. More important is fixing games that don't run at all (Soul Blazer etc.)
@[member='Another World']: Here are all the change logs: http://code.google.com/p/snemuldsx/source/list
 

RodrigoDavy

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
1,453
Trophies
0
XP
879
Country
Brazil
" I finished with testing a bunch of games and sadly as expected there are no improvements at all yet compared to the last 2007 release of SNEmulDS (at least I didn't noticed any). In fact, it's even worse than before :( "

I noticed some improvement on F-ZERO. I was having problems with the mode 7 on previous versions, and now I can play the game just fine, although it is slow.

" I think people can live with layering issues here and there "

I don't think so. The layering issues is, in my opinion, the worst problem in SNEmulDS. It's not nice having trouble to select a menu option because it is covered by the background or when you can see an enemy that is suposed to be hidden for example. Trying to set the priorities of backgrounds and sprites on the menu is not a trivial task and often useless as the priorities change as you play the game. Fixing games that doesn't work is very important, but fixing the ones that doesn't work properly is just as important.

Also, I don't think you people should be so harsh with the new version. The menu is working much better now and if there are games running slower it may be because of the updates in devkitpro since SNEmulDS last official release, hopefully with time there will be more games working and, who knows, less graphic issues. Please keep up with your work. :P
 

DanTheManMS

aka Ricochet Otter
Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4,453
Trophies
1
Age
34
Location
Georgia
XP
746
Country
United States
" I think people can live with layering issues here and there "

I don't think so. The layering issues is, in my opinion, the worst problem in SNEmulDS. It's not nice having trouble to select a menu option because it is covered by the background or when you can see an enemy that is suposed to be hidden for example. Trying to set the priorities of backgrounds and sprites on the menu is not a trivial task and often useless as the priorities change as you play the game. Fixing games that doesn't work is very important, but fixing the ones that doesn't work properly is just as important.
Quite frankly, I don't think you're ever going to be satisfied with SNEmulDS if you're expecting the layering system to ever be close to perfect. BassAceGold pretty much spelled out why such a feat is difficult, if not impossible. Of course the graphics *could* be perfect if you're willing to play the game at 10% normal speed. The graphical inaccuracy is the price we must pay to get full speed.

I'm not saying the layering can't be improved. Goodness knows that it's loads better than it was in the initial releases of SNEmulDS. But I think you expect perfection, and that's not a realistic expectation.

EDIT: By the way, you do know about the quick graphics change shortcuts, right? It's been a long time since I used them, but I think it's L+R+Start+Up or something like that. It will cycle through several known graphics layering combinations that tend to work well for most games.
 

RodrigoDavy

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
1,453
Trophies
0
XP
879
Country
Brazil
@DanTheManMS

You misunderstood, I am really impressed with the snes emulation on the DS and I know this graphic issues are caused by the differences between the snes and nds way of handling the graphics, and you're right, maybe I am being unrealistic, but I do have hopes there is another way to solve some of this layering problem without sacrificing speed. I just didn't want the layering problem to be disconsidered so easily. I however will be very happy if there's any improvement in the emulator, be it in the sound, the graphics, the game compability...

I did try the graphic shortcut, but I don't think it's the one you said. If anybody knows it, please tell me. :D
 

DanTheManMS

aka Ricochet Otter
Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4,453
Trophies
1
Age
34
Location
Georgia
XP
746
Country
United States
No I tested it with Donkey Kong Country 2. Go into a level, like a woods level for instance. Hold L+R+Start and then tap Up a few times to see the difference. It's easier to see in v0.5 Beta because it shows the current layer ordering directly on the bottom of the menu screen, but the button shortcut still works in v0.6 Alpha. I do not know if they've changed that in the current WIP version though.
 

LeonardoFM

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
152
Trophies
0
Age
35
Location
Rio de Janeiro
XP
142
Country
Brazil
Megaman X's emulation is most likely perfect SFX-wise aside... But the truth is, the MMX trilogy is not NDS (or should i say GBC/GBA/DS) friendly when it comes to gameplay, if you guys know what i mean... I mean, if one plays the Megaman games for Gameboy and compare them to the NES titles, you'll notice how they're slightly slower in gameplay, and that's not because the GBC could not handle the NES games versions' speed, but most likely because it's easier to jump and shoot and more "button friendly". That's why i wish Super Metroid gets improved somehow, because this game IS DS friendly controller-wise

I wish all the luck to all this team involved and don't give up, please... The Snes deserves this gratitute from us lol

EDIT: Dan... Man, could you recommend me the best version of this emu for Super Metroid? Is it the 0.5 beta? Thanks and cheers man, see ya
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
170
Trophies
0
XP
429
Country
United States
Quite frankly, I don't think you're ever going to be satisfied with SNEmulDS if you're expecting the layering system to ever be close to perfect. BassAceGold pretty much spelled out why such a feat is difficult, if not impossible. Of course the graphics *could* be perfect if you're willing to play the game at 10% normal speed. The graphical inaccuracy is the price we must pay to get full speed.

I'm not saying the layering can't be improved. Goodness knows that it's loads better than it was in the initial releases of SNEmulDS. But I think you expect perfection, and that's not a realistic expectation.
But he was talking about how a software solution would be pretty much impossible on regular DS hardware. Why limit it to that, though? The 2004 DS hardware is quite outdated, and he mentioned that DSi may be able to handle it. Even though I don't have a DSi/3DS (though I'm thinking of getting one of them), I would love for this emulator to be DSi-only if it would make the graphics appear correctly.
 

jimmyemunoz

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,958
Trophies
0
Location
Louisiana
XP
487
Country
United States
But he was talking about how a software solution would be pretty much impossible on regular DS hardware. Why limit it to that, though? The 2004 DS hardware is quite outdated, and he mentioned that DSi may be able to handle it. Even though I don't have a DSi/3DS (though I'm thinking of getting one of them), I would love for this emulator to be DSi-only if it would make the graphics appear correctly.
Chaos Rush, we don't have DSi access. Cyclo iEvolution was the only flash card that did, and it really was just scraping the tip of the iceberg. The Cyclo iEvolution never evolved, and was restricted anyways, from the word go. Only certain features of DSi mode were available for use, and quite frankly, homebrew was never really coded to utilize the Cyclo's abilities. Cyclo iEvolution=Fail (unfortunately)
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
170
Trophies
0
XP
429
Country
United States
But he was talking about how a software solution would be pretty much impossible on regular DS hardware. Why limit it to that, though? The 2004 DS hardware is quite outdated, and he mentioned that DSi may be able to handle it. Even though I don't have a DSi/3DS (though I'm thinking of getting one of them), I would love for this emulator to be DSi-only if it would make the graphics appear correctly.
Chaos Rush, we don't have DSi access. Cyclo iEvolution was the only flash card that did, and it really was just scraping the tip of the iceberg. The Cyclo iEvolution never evolved, and was restricted anyways, from the word go. Only certain features of DSi mode were available for use, and quite frankly, homebrew was never really coded to utilize the Cyclo's abilities. Cyclo iEvolution=Fail (unfortunately)
I apologize, I was not aware of that. I actually have no knowledge when it comes to coding DS homebrew, so I have completely no idea when it comes to DSi and its homebrew restrictions.
 

DanTheManMS

aka Ricochet Otter
Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4,453
Trophies
1
Age
34
Location
Georgia
XP
746
Country
United States
EDIT: I typed a reply, then realized that I don't know what I'm even really talking about anymore.

Suffice to say that the DSi isn't all that much of an upgrade from the DS, so you'd have to go to the 3DS before you could realistically emulate in software rendering mode. But all we have with 3DS-capable flash carts are the same old 2004-era DS hardware capabilities we've been using for 8 years. For more accurate pocket-sized SNES emulation, the PSP has had a very decent port of snes9x for at least 6 years, likely longer, and there's also the GP2X and Pandora and... well you get the point. It's great to have the capability on the DS, and I'm glad SNEmulDS is still being worked on, but if you were serious about having the emulation in your pocket, you would have bought another device for it sometime before now.
 

jimmyemunoz

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,958
Trophies
0
Location
Louisiana
XP
487
Country
United States
EDIT: I typed a reply, then realized that I don't know what I'm even really talking about anymore.

Suffice to say that the DSi isn't all that much of an upgrade from the DS, so you'd have to go to the 3DS before you could realistically emulate in software rendering mode. But all we have with 3DS-capable flash carts are the same old 2004-era DS hardware capabilities we've been using for 8 years. For more accurate pocket-sized SNES emulation, the PSP has had a very decent port of snes9x for at least 6 years, likely longer, and there's also the GP2X and Pandora and... well you get the point. It's great to have the capability on the DS, and I'm glad SNEmulDS is still being worked on, but if you were serious about having the emulation in your pocket, you would have bought another device for it sometime before now.
Dan, that was a very honest post...BUT it's really not a great idea to ran on the parade, you know? Stay cool.....
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    straferz @ straferz: Anybody know why this is happening to my ACWW town...