Gaming [Q] Why do people pirate?

[Ralph1611]

Seriously... Its just a file.... two computers, talking to each other.. exchanging information.. thats the way I see it..

its just a file

 

[fischermasamune]

I think that regarding the 3DS, the excuse "I pirate because I'd never buy it" or "I pirate because gaming is too expensive" is lame. It's a rationalization of the action. Everything in my post is about the 3DS.

If you can invest 200 dollars in a handheld (or even 150) plus 80 in a flashcart (or the Gateway 60? not sure), you could certainly pay for your games. Maybe you won't have 100+ games day one, but it's possible to buy some games. People always use the figure of 40 dollars per game, but they forget that:
a) you can buy cheaper if used
b) you can buy cheaper if you wait for a sale [I normally do this]
c) you can sell the game after you've played
If you already have the conditions to have a computer and internet at home and can spend 280 dollars with a luxury which is the 3DS, you could spend 200 (or consider 150 and 60) in the system, and one or two games per year shouldn't be impossible.
Even for Brazil, for example, where I imagine a 3DS XL should be 800 reais, a new game 120 reais and a Gateway 200 reais (pure guessing!!!), someone who can buy a system have the means to buy games. Of course not in the same quantity as they pirate, but still accessible.

I don't claim that every time a game is pirated a specific is loss. But if there was no piracy, more people would be buying the games, and among 100 pirates, there may be... 20 or 50 or 80 people who would buy the games. Because pirates are people who like games, and they are costumers in potential.

Piracy could also boost purchases if people use it for trying games out before buying. And also, piracy moves the hardware, it's true. Without real data in either side, I believe the net effect is negative for the dev industry.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying anything more than what I'm writing!

 

[BORODA]

I pirate because there's no 3DS games officially sold in my country and importing them is paying twice for the delivery. If the market of games was big enough here, I would have bought the games.

 

[TemplarGR]

I think that regarding the 3DS, the excuse "I pirate because I'd never buy it" or "I pirate because gaming is too expensive" is lame. It's a rationalization of the action. Everything in my post is about the 3DS.

If you can invest 200 dollars in a handheld (or even 150) plus 80 in a flashcart (or the Gateway 60? not sure), you could certainly pay for your games. Maybe you won't have 100+ games day one, but it's possible to buy some games. People always use the figure of 40 dollars per game, but they forget that:
a) you can buy cheaper if used
b) you can buy cheaper if you wait for a sale [I normally do this]
c) you can sell the game after you've played
If you already have the conditions to have a computer and internet at home and can spend 280 dollars with a luxury which is the 3DS, you could spend 200 (or consider 150 and 60) in the system, and one or two games per year shouldn't be impossible.
Even for Brazil, for example, where I imagine a 3DS XL should be 800 reais, a new game 120 reais and a Gateway 200 reais (pure guessing!!!), someone who can buy a system have the means to buy games. Of course not in the same quantity as they pirate, but still accessible.

I don't claim that every time a game is pirated a specific is loss. But if there was no piracy, more people would be buying the games, and among 100 pirates, there may be... 20 or 50 or 80 people who would buy the games. Because pirates are people who like games, and they are costumers in potential.

Piracy could also boost purchases if people use it for trying games out before buying. And also, piracy moves the hardware, it's true. Without real data in either side, I believe the net effect is negative for the dev industry.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying anything more than what I'm writing!

a) This most times is worse than piracy, because the game dev/publisher gets no money from your purchase but still has to pay for any network infustructure you use etc... Remember, you are not paying for the medium, you are paying for the content, and if you enjoy content while not having paid the creator, you are a pirate...

c) Selling a game, AKA profiing from content that doesn't belong to you, is like a pirate selling CDs... The content doesn't belong to you, by buying games you only buy the licence to PLAY/REPRODUCE the content privately. Yet, like the pirate, you make money from the content others produced...

In general, video games, ESPECIALLY 3DS GAMES, are very expensive. And there is no justification for their prices. Why Pokemon ORAS cost 50 euros? Their content is weak, both in amount and in quality. You want to tell me that i have to pay the same amount for a stupid game of Pokemon as for example Farcry 4 or Assassin Creed Unity? How much did it cost to make compared to these AAA releases?

The dark industry secret no one (and especially shills and game "journalists") wants you to know, is that the industry in general makes far more money by selling 60$ games to fewer than selling 20$ to more people. Piracy, they can tolerate. Sometimes, they even promote it (*ahem* PSone *ahem*) in secret.

But smartphones and tablets have already damaged this system. When games that sell for 40$ and 60$ on consoles and PC, sell for 9.99$ on tablets and ipads and are much profitable, you know the end of this system is near...

 

[prowler]

In general, video games, ESPECIALLY 3DS GAMES, are very expensive. And there is no justification for their prices. Why Pokemon ORAS cost 50 euros? Their content is weak, both in amount and in quality. You want to tell me that i have to pay the same amount for a stupid game of Pokemon as for example Farcry 4 or Assassin Creed Unity? How much did it cost to make compared to these AAA releases?

Pure opinion. Nintendo/Game Freak doesn't publish development costs. And you have to take into consideration that mainline Pokemon games is made by a company that has less than 80 employees. Destiny cost $500 million to make, doesn't mean it's a good game.

The whole argument of games costing too much is silly, people that pirate want as many games as possible on their flashcarts before they even first turn it on and this is how the mentality of games costing too much comes in, they can't cope with a system and one/two games.

Piracy is becoming less of a problem for gaming; PS1/2 days I remember buying my games around £2 a pop from some guy down the road, you can't do that anymore. People have to commit and learn about the system (Wii, 3DS, Xbox, etc) before they actually pirate. Piracy only make a small dent in game sales.

 

[fischermasamune]

Here's a breakdown...

a) This most times is worse than piracy, because the game dev/publisher gets no money from your purchase but still has to pay for any network infustructure you use etc... Remember, you are not paying for the medium, you are paying for the content, and if you enjoy content while not having paid the creator, you are a pirate...

c) Selling a game, AKA profiing from content that doesn't belong to you, is like a pirate selling CDs... The content doesn't belong to you, by buying games you only buy the licence to PLAY/REPRODUCE the content privately. Yet, like the pirate, you make money from the content others produced...

When you buy the medium, you buy the rights to reselling the medium. (At least when talking about 3DS cartridges... you can't resell digital games.) This is included in the price the first buyer paid to the producer of the content. If cartridges couldn't be resold, there would be less value in them, and either they would be sold for less or fewer units would be moved.

In general, video games, ESPECIALLY 3DS GAMES, are very expensive. And there is no justification for their prices. Why Pokemon ORAS cost 50 euros? Their content is weak, both in amount and in quality. You want to tell me that i have to pay the same amount for a stupid game of Pokemon as for example Farcry 4 or Assassin Creed Unity? How much did it cost to make compared to these AAA releases?

Well, if it's not worth it, do not buy it. About fair price, there are reasons some wines are more expensive even if the cost of producing is fixed. For games, one of the reasons driving up prices is the franchise which is established. But in the end, it's worth what people are willing to pay for it.

The dark industry secret no one (and especially shills and game "journalists") wants you to know is that the industry in general makes far more money by selling 60$ games to fewer than selling 20$ to more people.

In which sense is it a secret?

Is it really true? Because you also wrote:

When games that sell for 40$ and 60$ on consoles and PC, sell for 9.99$ on tablets and ipads and are much profitable, you know the end of this system is near...

Care to elaborate?

Piracy, they can tolerate. Sometimes, they even promote it (*ahem* PSone *ahem*) in secret.

But smartphones and tablets have already damaged this system.

I don't know much about the PSone scene but I'd agree that piracy isn't as adverse to the videogame industry as the mobile games.

 

[Liberty]

Why do people pirate? Because it works and their needs are satisfied.

Let's say companies/farms offered you free food for the rest of your life. Would you reject?

 

[the_randomizer]

1 - The games I own will eventually wear out (especially optical media/discs) and I refuse to repurchase games I already own, so I back them up to make sure I have clean dumps, to some, that makes me a pirate in and of itself.
2 - Most of the 16-bit/8-bit are not available via digital distribution services such as the eShop, PSN, XBN, Steam etc and the only means are paying exorbitant prices on eBay or Amazon for a used copy. For a new one, you can spend your life savings. Games can fetch a price of over $200 in many case. So I say screw that and have a lot of Snes ROMs that are not available for reasonable prices, I refuse to support secondhand sellers who screw people over with overpriced out-of-print games.
3 - Consoles eventually stop working, I refuse to buy a new system, or even a clone system, because I'm too bloody lazy, this is me being perfectly honest.
4 - Most of these old games are no longer generating revenue, and none of these companies who made said games are getting a cent, so really, no one is at a financial loss.
5 - New games, games that are still generating revenue, I don't do to because, well, it feels even more wrong somehow.

OP's account was deleted

Hmm, that's a shame He kept dodging the questions people asked him, he kept using ad hominem attacks and other BS, he wasn't being serious during the discussion. He should have known that bringing up a topic as heated and sensitive as piracy rarely ends well.

 

[Ericzander]

5 - New games, games that are still generating revenue, I don't do to because, well, it feels even more wrong somehow.

And to add to that, at the moment I don't think there is a way to pirate PS4/Xbone/Wii U games. People pirate 3DS games using Gateway but only a very small group do compared to the system's install base. It's a different story for PC games which kind of sucks, but for the most part companies ARE getting paid a crapton of money when they first release a game.

And as much as I love the original Legend of Zelda, does Nintendo really need me to keep paying them every time I want to play it on a different console (bad example because I actually did buy that game thrice)

 

[Pluupy]

Why do people pirate? Because it works and their needs are satisfied.

Let's say companies/farms offered you free food for the rest of your life. Would you reject?

Depends.

If it was nothing but seafood, then i'd reject it.

 

[anhminh]

People pirate because they don't want to pay for it, everything just that simple.
Call us thief if you want, but as long as we doesn't get caught, we aren't criminal.

 

[ut2k4master]

as long as we doesn't get caught, we aren't criminal.

wow, just wow... how stupid can people be? ...

 

[FAST6191]

wow, just wow... how stupid can people be? ...

Assuming you do not mean this copyright infringement lark being a civil rather than criminal offence then "innocent unless proven guilty" kind of does come into play -- it is why they ask you if you have any convictions rather than if you have committed any crimes.

 

[Bimmel]

Hard question.

I've read many "excuses" in this thread but none of them seems really that okay to me. Maybe there just is no excuse - I don't know.
What people maybe forget is, that there are people behind the games who want to live? Only speculation of course.

 

[Nightwish]

What people maybe forget is, that there are people behind the games who want to live? Only speculation of course.

And they're already paid by the time the game comes out.

 

[ut2k4master]

And they're already paid by the time the game comes out.

too bad you know nothing about the industry

 

[Vipera]

I won't even bother to read the usual, BS excuses.

"I don't have enough money!" Proceeds to waste hundreds over bad economy management. That, and junk food.
"They don't deserve my money!" This is such a spoiled kid excuse it's not even funny. They don't "deserve" your money? Don't fucking play it. If you play it, they deserve their retribution.
"I am going to try it! Then I will buy the game!" This is the most common excuse. In most cases, it's a stupid excuse. 99% of the times they are NOT going to buy it, and they will make more stupid excuses. "It was too short", "it was too long", "I didn't like that one character" etc. Yet you still played the game.
"I only pirate AAA companies, but I support indie games! Indie for life!" Oh, the same genre that became an easy way of money-grabbing by making incomplete games and """jokes""" in form of unplayable Simulator games?
"I have better priorities than stupid games!" Then you shouldn't have such a "stupid" hobby you don't support in any way, do you? That, and we go back to the bad money management, which is a very common problem.
"Piracy doesn't hurt companies!" Does this justify you to steal? That, and the fact this is pure BS. While it might not hurt popular games, it risks to cripple down the sells of less popular ones. I know no-one who has the original Solatorobo, yet many people seemed to have played it. Sequel cancelled in order to make a spiritual one for Android, japanese only. Good job.

I don't care about people pirating. However, I do find the hypocrisy extremely annoying. Either say the truth or say nothing.

 

[FAST6191]

I won't even bother to read the usual, BS excuses.

"I don't have enough money!" Proceeds to waste hundreds over bad economy management. That, and junk food.
"They don't deserve my money!" This is such a spoiled kid excuse it's not even funny. They don't "deserve" your money? Don't fucking play it. If you play it, they deserve their retribution.
"I am going to try it! Then I will buy the game!" This is the most common excuse. In most cases, it's a stupid excuse. 99% of the times they are NOT going to buy it, and they will make more stupid excuses. "It was too short", "it was too long", "I didn't like that one character" etc. Yet you still played the game.
"I only pirate AAA companies, but I support indie games! Indie for life!" Oh, the same genre that became an easy way of money-grabbing by making incomplete games and """jokes""" in form of unplayable Simulator games?
"I have better priorities than stupid games!" Then you shouldn't have such a "stupid" hobby you don't support in any way, do you? That, and we go back to the bad money management, which is a very common problem.
"Piracy doesn't hurt companies!" Does this justify you to steal? That, and the fact this is pure BS. While it might not hurt popular games, it risks to cripple down the sells of less popular ones. I know no-one who has the original Solatorobo, yet many people seemed to have played it. Sequel cancelled in order to make a spiritual one for Android, japanese only. Good job.

I don't care about people pirating. However, I do find the hypocrisy extremely annoying. Either say the truth or say nothing.

But if I can have games and junk food...

If they can not compel me to hand over my money without some appeal to my morality...

Does it count if I pick it up a few years later when it is on offer?

Unplayable, incomplete simulators... does that mean the time I played that Gran Turismo demo Prologue title I was playing an indie game?

I am not seeing this one. Oh it is flimsy as you like but on the "if the games industry as I know it imploded tomorrow then I would not be too troubled" angle it makes some kind of sense.

We can debate numbers, however I imagine the publishers knew the rough rates of piracy that could be expected and probably should have accounted for it accordingly (by demographic as well). It is a bit like when they debate second hand game sales; ultimately it does not matter as second hand games exist and existed as you set out to make the game, that they are also legal does have a somewhat subtle effect but in the marketing/accounting projections it it is still an effective decrease or some hypothetical magic number where everybody that played it gained a copy.

I also do not care what people do, however getting worked up about the tissue thin excused issued by people at a level beyond it being a waste of database space seems like an overreaction.

 

[Liberty]

Either say the truth or say nothing.

The only person you have to give account for is yourself.

 

[Vipera]

But if I can have games and junk food...

Are you saying that, if you had the chance to steal a coke while buying junk food, you'd do that?

If they can not compel me to hand over my money without some appeal to my morality...

I don't get what you were trying to say here.

Does it count if I pick it up a few years later when it is on offer?

Offers exist to appeal those who weren't considering to play the game immediately. By pirating, you are at the same level as those who got their game in the same time, yet you didn't pay it. It's like saying "I'm buying this phone that just came out but I will pay it when I find offers around". It makes no sense.

Unplayable, incomplete simulators... does that mean the time I played that Gran Turismo demo Prologue title I was playing an indie game?

You know, I remember when Vision GT was just announced and every videogame magazine I used to buy at that time said how this was a "demo of a demo", and everyone I knew with a PS3 knew that. You make it sound like Prologue was a full-priced demo and no one knew that, despite everyone knowing every GT game outside GT5 for the PS3 was not going to be the real deal.
That thing aside, how does one game justify you to pirate every AAA title? And to give credit to a genre that has been exploited worse than any other commercial company has?

I am not seeing this one. Oh it is flimsy as you like but on the "if the games industry as I know it imploded tomorrow then I would not be too troubled" angle it makes some kind of sense.

Gaming industry is like any other industry. It's not a second-class economy that deserves their piracy "just because it's easy". It is made from hard workers who have a job to take care of.

We can debate numbers, however I imagine the publishers knew the rough rates of piracy that could be expected and probably should have accounted for it accordingly (by demographic as well). It is a bit like when they debate second hand game sales; ultimately it does not matter as second hand games exist and existed as you set out to make the game, that they are also legal does have a somewhat subtle effect but in the marketing/accounting projections it it is still an effective decrease or some hypothetical magic number where everybody that played it gained a copy.

I also do not care what people do, however getting worked up about the tissue thin excused issued by people at a level beyond it being a waste of database space seems like an overreaction.

...are you implying that the game shouldn't have been made because of the piracy?
As for the used market, I've always believed it as the real "I don't like what you did, I want (part of) my money back". If you sell a game it's because you didn't like it enough to justify the price and try to cut down the cost. It balances the market the way it should be.