International rules? Hahahahaha
I'm sorry but US, Russia, and China don't know of any international rules.
[Poll]Do you think Mexico will pay for the wall?
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International rules? Hahahahaha
I'm sorry but US, Russia, and China don't know of any international rules.
Yeah, its definitely true that such a tariff would ruin Mexico until they renegotiate trade deals with other nations to start recouping the loss (which, of course, won't be easy). I'm not sure that its the best way to generate revenue though, because Mexican exports to the US will undoubtedly drop and US consumers won't be buying the goods. And, of course, the price increase for American consumers will not make Americans happy, because most people don't support the wall and don't want their way of life affected by it.
But, of course, it indirectly fulfills the fun "make Mexico pay" slogan, so there's that.
Last edited by ThisIsDaAccount,
, Reason: left out a word
To be honest I think the US would have much better luck at negotiating trade deals, seeing as our market is much much bigger than Mexico. The US is so much better equipped for a trade war than Mexico, people seem to forget this....
That's undoubtedly true, the US would definitely be the one to come out on top. I'm just questioning how effective it would be in collecting the 10-20 billion the wall will cost, since it's not like Mexico will keep exporting to the US and American consumers won't keep buying the more expensive stuff. And since most Americans don't support the wall, they won't be happy that stuff is more expensive.
Also, Mexicans come illegally to the US to improve their way of life, and not all of them come through the border. If we worsen their way of life, won't they be more tempted to come illegally?
This is the second time I've seen this video posted in one of these kinds of threads. Here is a video that directly counters Adam's weak points:
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Crowder used to be the voice of Brain on Arthur
Anyway, everyone should watch this
I think that's two fair points. TBH I think Trump is gonna use NAFTA as a scare tactic to bullying Mexico with the wall. I think there is a very good possibility they will pay for it, but if that fails you are right it may just turn into a moral victory for the US where they basically just screw Mexico over and end up paying it themselves.
About other forms of illegal immigration, I hope Trump tackles that next. IMO though it's much better to have somebody get screened for a visa than jumping across the border and the govt not knowing anything about them. I think the wall if built as Trump has said will have large effect on the border jumping.
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It doesn't but it is a random fact I remember for no reason.
Oh, okay. I thought you were presenting that as a reason to not listen to him (that's not to say there aren't any, but I digress).
There is no "when hell freezes over" option.
I'm confident New Mexico State Legislature will pass the state law banning the wall in the state, so even if he builds it, it will stretch from the California coast through Arid-zona, then stop abruptly in New Mexico, before starting again 180 miles later in Texas.
I'm confident New Mexico State Legislature will pass the state law banning the wall in the state, so even if he builds it, it will stretch from the California coast through Arid-zona, then stop abruptly in New Mexico, before starting again 180 miles later in Texas.
Last edited by kehkou,
I believe in having secure borders, but I'll admit I was hoping the wall would be more... metaphorical. I mean, there have to be more economical means of making our border more secure than it currently is without a physical wall. In any event, I would think Mexico should also have an interest in keeping their border secure, and they should contribute to the cost of keeping that border secure. Of course, whether or not they will remains to be seen.
we aint paying nothin.
Im glad the mayority of americans here dont want one :-)
a 1900 mile long wall...3400 kilometers...
Yeah there's no way in hell neither of us can afford it.
Im glad the mayority of americans here dont want one :-)
a 1900 mile long wall...3400 kilometers...
Yeah there's no way in hell neither of us can afford it.
Okay...I gotta admit that when I first checked this thread again, it was up to five pages and there was a heavy debate* going on already. Rather than mingle and attempt to reply everyone individually, I gotta say I thank everyone for voicing their concerns and opinions on the matter, even though I don't always agree (which...would've been impossible in this sort of situation).
As it stands, the dust is more or less settled on this topic (alas: it's more because Trump is busy creating NEW controversies rather than solving other ones). Let's recap things a bit:
-both American and non-American tempers believe that it's US citizens who will end up paying for it in the end, though the former has a bit higher chance of believing it. Note that this small poll is far from done on a large enough scale to get proper statistical data (gbatempers don't represent enough of a diversification on populae in the first place), so please don't get too overeager to tell this to the world.
-the "most immigrants come by plane" is an important argument, and a heavily debated one. As it becomes clear with Donald's (even more) controversial act of prohibiting people from Muslim countries**. I have no doubt that as this wall thing goes through, even simple vacations to the US will become extremely hard for Mexicans.
-perhaps more interesting to me personally is what is NOT mentioned: the loss of jobs due to automatisations and off-shoring. I just read a book about this***, and asides predicting that as a species, we're on the verge of huge, systematic unemployment because of automatisation, he also makes a very valid observation on the subject of immigration. He basically wonders why everyone seems to hate Mexicans who come over and do jobs that US citizens won't like to do (cleaning, janitor services, fastfood operator, and so on), but nobody makes a fuss when countries like India "steal" all sorts of jobs that US citizens would more likely do (telemarketeer, tech support, insurance, these sorts of things). In other words: what's the point of closing physical borders when the virtual ones remain to be wide open?
-unfortunately, I predicted the outcome in that "we'll pressure them into doing it" option rather correctly: Trump wants to build his wall by using an import tax on Mexican goods. The problem with this, however, is that this would be a violation of a treaty that he conveniently placed in a bad light prior to proposing this. In other words: NAFTA. The funny thing is that I've read about this treaty about a couple months before the elections. In that book****, the (American) author feels almost apologetic towards Mexico, as he thoroughly describes how Mexico couldn't compete with the subsidized food that America dumped into Mexico (thus effectively pushing poor farmers off the market) while abusing local antidump-laws to fend off the import of cheaper Mexican tomatoes. Granted, the book is ten years old by now, but when asked to believe a nobel prize winner or a business man who lies more than he speaks the truth, I chose the former. In other words: NAFTA never was a one-sided deal in favor of Mexico. And with that being a lie, I'm not so sure what will happen if this income tax (and with that: the total annulation of NAFTA) goes through. But the chances of it ever being sufficient of completely building that wall are low. So low I honestly wouldn't trust it as an American taxpayer.
-though I'm thoroughly against that wall, I'll give it my opponents that there is a good side to this situation: employment. You can't build a Chinese wall in your backyard without a huge amount of workers. No matter how much or little use that wall will end up having, employees to build, maintain and/or guard the wall gives them something to do. And cynical as I might be about the purpose, giving people jobs helps the economy.
*which differs from a discussion in that everyone already had their opinions formed and wasn't going to budge.
**according to him, the fact that they're Muslim countries has nothing to do with it. According to everyone else, it has everything to do with it.
***Rise of the machines, by Thomas Rid
****making globalisation work, by Joseph Stiglitz
As it stands, the dust is more or less settled on this topic (alas: it's more because Trump is busy creating NEW controversies rather than solving other ones). Let's recap things a bit:
-both American and non-American tempers believe that it's US citizens who will end up paying for it in the end, though the former has a bit higher chance of believing it. Note that this small poll is far from done on a large enough scale to get proper statistical data (gbatempers don't represent enough of a diversification on populae in the first place), so please don't get too overeager to tell this to the world.
-the "most immigrants come by plane" is an important argument, and a heavily debated one. As it becomes clear with Donald's (even more) controversial act of prohibiting people from Muslim countries**. I have no doubt that as this wall thing goes through, even simple vacations to the US will become extremely hard for Mexicans.
-perhaps more interesting to me personally is what is NOT mentioned: the loss of jobs due to automatisations and off-shoring. I just read a book about this***, and asides predicting that as a species, we're on the verge of huge, systematic unemployment because of automatisation, he also makes a very valid observation on the subject of immigration. He basically wonders why everyone seems to hate Mexicans who come over and do jobs that US citizens won't like to do (cleaning, janitor services, fastfood operator, and so on), but nobody makes a fuss when countries like India "steal" all sorts of jobs that US citizens would more likely do (telemarketeer, tech support, insurance, these sorts of things). In other words: what's the point of closing physical borders when the virtual ones remain to be wide open?
-unfortunately, I predicted the outcome in that "we'll pressure them into doing it" option rather correctly: Trump wants to build his wall by using an import tax on Mexican goods. The problem with this, however, is that this would be a violation of a treaty that he conveniently placed in a bad light prior to proposing this. In other words: NAFTA. The funny thing is that I've read about this treaty about a couple months before the elections. In that book****, the (American) author feels almost apologetic towards Mexico, as he thoroughly describes how Mexico couldn't compete with the subsidized food that America dumped into Mexico (thus effectively pushing poor farmers off the market) while abusing local antidump-laws to fend off the import of cheaper Mexican tomatoes. Granted, the book is ten years old by now, but when asked to believe a nobel prize winner or a business man who lies more than he speaks the truth, I chose the former. In other words: NAFTA never was a one-sided deal in favor of Mexico. And with that being a lie, I'm not so sure what will happen if this income tax (and with that: the total annulation of NAFTA) goes through. But the chances of it ever being sufficient of completely building that wall are low. So low I honestly wouldn't trust it as an American taxpayer.
-though I'm thoroughly against that wall, I'll give it my opponents that there is a good side to this situation: employment. You can't build a Chinese wall in your backyard without a huge amount of workers. No matter how much or little use that wall will end up having, employees to build, maintain and/or guard the wall gives them something to do. And cynical as I might be about the purpose, giving people jobs helps the economy.
*which differs from a discussion in that everyone already had their opinions formed and wasn't going to budge.
**according to him, the fact that they're Muslim countries has nothing to do with it. According to everyone else, it has everything to do with it.
***Rise of the machines, by Thomas Rid
****making globalisation work, by Joseph Stiglitz
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