Nintendo Switch's First Live Appearance, Running Breath of the Wild

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Prans, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. zac122

    Member zac122 GBAtemp Regular

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    People are defining handhelds by the same thing. And in this case they are also defining the switch almost entirely on limitations(specifically the power). In that case can you show me how a tablet fits a definition of home console? And if we ignore the dock, which btw is essentially a bundled peripheral, is the switch something that fits that definition? I know that home consoles have benefits over a handheld, but a handheld bridging several of those benefits doesn't make it any less a handheld imo. It may be pedantic of me to say this, but I just don't see how a tablet can be a home console.

    Edit: if i could add one thing real quick, if the dock provided extra power(and i'm not talking about raising the clock speed, i'm referring to something like an eGPU or more cpu cores, maybe some extra RAM, then i could be more flexible about calling it a home console. as it stands though i will wait for someone to give me a definition of home console that the switch console can fulfill(keeping in mind that the dock is not the console as per what nintendo has said repeatedly)
     
    Last edited by zac122, Dec 15, 2016


  2. KingVamp

    Member KingVamp Great... AETHER!

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    Not everyone defines handhelds by power. Although it looking to be around Xbox 1 power and it stronger than the Wii U. They are home consoles, so... yeah. How does the Switch fit the definition of home consoles? It is a console I can play on the TV at home. Doesn't even need to be an actually TV, which was proven by the Wii U. Not sure what the dock has to do with this. Not sure if you would even need a dock to connect to the TV, but it almost like you are saying if ignore the wires that connect to the TV from a home console, does it fit the definition of a home console. Dock isn't needed specifically to be portable and home console. Also, is it was design as a home console first unlike the portables with TV out and the games reflect that. Not just because it wasn't design to play console games, but very few, if any, games on the psp could be played with multiple controllers. Looks like it may not even be able to go full power without being connected to a TV, or at least wall power.

    Switch is a home console even by your definition. It is a box that can be played strictly on a TV. It just happens to comes with a monitor like the Wii U, except it is built-in this time.
     
    Last edited by KingVamp, Dec 16, 2016
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  3. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

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    the term home console is pretty dated these days. the days of a box connected to a tv perm connected and only be able to play in your living room are coming to a end.
     
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  4. zac122

    Member zac122 GBAtemp Regular

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    Ok I'm gonna take one last attempt at this. The 3ds is clearly a handheld device, yes? Let's draw an analogy then. The switch is placed into the dock activating home console mode and throwing the image up to the screen. All of the processing is still done on the tablet, the dock is merely a means of getting the image on your tv. Pretty impressive, but doesn't really affect the fact that without that dock I can't play it on my external monitor. If I take my 3ds with ntr cfw on it and stream to my laptop(analogous to the switch dock) I can easily send that image over to another monitor by an hdmi cable(I'm assuming this is what the switch dock will use). In both cases it takes extra hardware outside of the system itself to accomplish getting that image on the screen. The only difference is that the switch is being sold with the dock that does it for you. And if we say that the games define what a home console is then how should we address the vita? In fact, how should we address the 3ds with its multiple ps2 ports?

    If it's local multiplayer that you want to base your definition around then sure I'll give you that. Very few handhelds have successfully integrated local multiplayer on one system(I can only think of it being exclusive to certain games). But if that is the only difference between a handheld and a home console then why do we even differentiate between them in the first place?

    Lastly lets look at what handheld as a word means...you hold it...in your hands. The system itself is held by you during play. I cannot hold my ps3 while I'm playing it. I would look like an utter fool(imagining it is rather fun, I highly suggest you try). When not in the dock(which again is simply a peripheral that doesn't affect the functions of the system itself) the switch is basically held by you while playing. Yeah it's got the kickstand so you can put it down, w/e but for that to matter you'd have to be as pedantic as I am which I'm not certain is possible.
     
  5. foob

    Member foob GBAtemp Fan

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    Yes, because the marketing so far strongly suggests it is both. I think it's re-iterated by the accessories and even the size of the 'portable' unit too (and those vents). And the fact that Nintendo is essentially 'home-consoleless' beyond the Wii U.
     
  6. TotalInsanity4

    Member TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    @zac122 I'm curious as to how you would define
    this
    or
    these
     
  7. geodeath

    Newcomer geodeath Advanced Member

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    There is very good reason for discussing the guts and power of any new nintendo console. Many people judge the success and the future of a console based on the availability of 3rd party games on the platform (even the publishers themselves - its a chicken and egg issue), which shows if a platform is strong or not. Without the likes of GTA, Call of Duty and all the mainstream games, whichever they are in each generation, you cannot penetrate a market that needs these games. In turn, lower sales than the xbox or ps4 means publishers will prefer these platforms (Especially since they share the architecture) for their AAA games.

    At the end of the day, it is easy to please everybody, by making the console more powerful, to appeal to both indies and 3rd parties looking to produce heavy experiences and port their AAA titles *at the same time when they come out for the current platforms*. Skyrim is good, but i am guessing i am one of the people you can count in the hundreds that have not played it.

    Personally, i enjoy a less "high tech" game just fine, however the industry makes or breaks a console with support or lack of it. So the guts discussion is never irrelevant. You cannot simply compare the time the NES came out, as the technical aspects of the games that time were completely different and NES was infinitely better than the atari in the first place. I still remember people buying SNES consoles because of many games that simply looked better than the Mega Drive for example. It is never a useless debate. Looks sell. Not to me and you who as loyal nintendo customers will buy it for our nintendo fix, but when a clueless parent walks into a shop (if there is even a clueless one anymore!) and compares the 3 next to each other with the best demo they can put, it will be obvious to their eyes which one is more powerful. People do not impulse buy consoles & games based on gameplay, they find about it later at home. They buy them because of the box, artwork and demonstration in shop. Not to mention a more powerful console will last longer.

    Nintendo could 1-up everyone and produce their own powerful console to match the scorpio for example. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. The only thing they gain with the current approach is mobility, for which i don't care the slightest. I will always play in house.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    True. I know i compare it to a home console. But the fact of the matter is *that this is exactly what i want from nintendo*. I do not care for another mobile device personally because i simply do not play when i commute. WiiU's mobility is more than enough for me, it allows me to play in bed, in another room etc and i can untie from the tv. It is the gimmick you mention that drives me mad, not the comparison so much. In a perfect world, we would have a mobile enabled switch, that is like the ps4 lite and a switch "home" edition that is powerful enough to drive a 4k tv. Then pick your poison. Now if i get a switch i am essentially paying a lot of money for research and development of a solution i will not use, while the money could go for raw power, that would be preferable for me.
     
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  8. zac122

    Member zac122 GBAtemp Regular

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    @TotalInsanity4 the screen on the GameCube is again a peripheral. You could make the same parallel with that as I did with my 3ds and a computer analogy, but in the opposite direction.

    Edit: meaning you haven't really changed the nature of the system by making a screen that fits on it instead of being bigger and sitting on a shelf.

    iirc the shield is a streaming device right? You need to have the games installed on a PC that can handle them before you'll be able to play it on the shield? If I'm wrong about that then let me know for sure. If it is basically a streaming thing then it isn't the console playing the game and shouldn't be considered a console at all, if it's playing games installed on it then a controller with a screen on it is Def a handheld. I'm not 100% sure how the very bottom-most one works, so I'd need a little run down to make that call.
     
    Last edited by zac122, Dec 16, 2016
  9. KingVamp

    Member KingVamp Great... AETHER!

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    3ds nor the games isn't meant or design to go on the tv. Just because you got around that doesn't mean that is comparable to the Switch. While both handhelds can play some home console games, especially old ones, they were design to play handheld games. Same with home consoles, they were design to play games meant more for the home, even tho it does get games that was meant for handhelds.


    Ok, again the dock might not even be needed to put it on the screen and even if it is, it is no different than hdmi or usb to connect it to the TV. Home consoles have all the processing inside and the wires to the TV is only needed to connect them to the TV. Without the wires or (wireless chip like the Wii U) you can't play on your external monitor either, so I'm not sure where you are even going with that. I honestly don't understand why you are so stuck on the dock. Rather the dock is needed, doesn't change the fact it was design and can be played as a console and handheld. Not that it makes a difference, but you would think you would be more in agreement, if the dock was needed.

    "How can it be a home console, if I ignore the things that make it a home console?"


    I mean, it is a big thing, that's not the only thing. You the one that decided to be unnecessarily and unfairly strict about the definition.


    No you can't, because unlike the Switch, the Ps3 wasn't design to be play as a handheld and a home console. Again, rather the dock is necessary or not, doesn't change the fact that you can play it as a handheld and a console. I don't have to hold it. In fact, I can just leave it in the dock and play and never hold it again. Forgot about the kickstand, thanks for bringing it up. :P

    Is it main focus to play games? Yes. Can I play it on the TV? Yes. Can I play it in my hands? Yes. Will the games reflect that? Yes. It is a game console that is design to be able to play at home and on the go. It is just that simple.


    Even if you just see as a handheld, why does it matter when you can play all the home console games?
     
    Last edited by KingVamp, Dec 16, 2016
  10. TotalInsanity4

    Member TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    The Shield series is an android device that's capable of streaming PC games if the user chooses, but it can also play ported android games. The Shield TV is the successor to both the Shield Portable and Shield Tablet (except it's not portable, but otherwise accomplishes exactly the same purpose)
     
  11. zac122

    Member zac122 GBAtemp Regular

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    The main reason I've been posting here at all is because it doesn't make sense to me that people are comparing a tablet to a ps4. The fact that it has the potential to compete with it at all should be astounding, and yet I keep seeing people complain about how it's not gonna be powerful enough. I mean, it's not surprising to me at all that it would be weaker. Hell I'm amazed that a tablet is easily more powerful than a wiiu. It really just rubbed me the wrong way to see people complain about something that they really don't even know anything about yet. All we have is rumors, a reveal trailer that didn't show any actual switch footage(the images are overlaid and not actually live rendering), and Jimmy Fallon going absolutely nuts over BotW.

    @TotalInsanity4
    Ok, so I was basically right then. In that case can games be installed directly to the ShieldTV? If that's not the case then it isn't really the system you're playing on Tbh. I don't think it should be considered any kind of console really. It's a streaming device. Very cool though. I might have to look into it since my brother has a gtx 1060 in his computer.
     
    Last edited by zac122, Dec 16, 2016
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  12. TotalInsanity4

    Member TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    It has a Tegra X1 processor in it, so it's actually very capable of playing even up to some light GameCube games in terms of emulation and many high-end controller style android games. People are basing Switch power off of a theoretical more powerful version of the same chip, actually
     
  13. zac122

    Member zac122 GBAtemp Regular

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    yeah i've seen the rumors. i don't want to say "yup that's what it is" until we know 100%, but that would be nice. best case scenario we get a pascal chip in there though =P
     
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  14. player594

    Member player594 GBAtemp Regular

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    OK let's end the debate of it either being a home console or portable handheld. Let's call it what it is. It's a gaming system. As in a system of hardware pieces that allows you to play games either at home or in a more portable way. It's designed to do both in an easy user friendly way. It is really unlike any other console or handheld that has come before. And the fact that it is multi user multiplayer on a single screen is something we haven't seen. The gameboy advanced could multiplayer together but they use different screens and controls and separate carts to accomplish. This makes it so multiple people can play at the same time without everyone having a copy of the same game. I personally don't care about that as I hate. Multiplayer games. Especially online as there are too many cheaters out there. They disgust me.
    And there hasn't been enough info about the functionality of the dock to sit a and say it does absolutely nothing for it. It may be just for charging, it may not. Get your hands on it and tear it down to find out first.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  15. Jacklack3

    Member Jacklack3 OBJECTION!

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    idk if this has already been offically proven but from the look of the light reflection on the switch i think it won't have a touch screen. It doesn't have that reflection like touch screens have.
     
    Last edited by Jacklack3, Dec 19, 2016
  16. TotalInsanity4

    Member TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    That's a bit of a stretch
     
  17. osaka35

    Member osaka35 Sleepy

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    Oh, like the 3ds has? Rumour has it might not have the same type of touchscreen, and be more like a phone with it's finger driven multitouch.
     
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  18. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

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    i hope it doesn't have a touchscreen they need to MOVE AWAY from touch controls. don't follow the shitty mobile garbage market. they already tried that with the wiiu and look what happened.
     
  19. sarkwalvein

    Member sarkwalvein GBAtemp Addict

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    Regarding touch screen being the reason for garbage games in the mobile market, the Nintendo DS taught me otherwise.
    It still is IMHO the best, most proficient handheld platform ever, with a great catalogue of games.
     
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  20. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

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    the ds/3ds are way different that the touch control games on the wiiu. the wiiu was designed to be aimed at snatching the mobile market away...and it failed miserably. if nintendo have any brains left they'll avoid it this time with a 50 foot clown pole :P
     

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