Homebrew Licensed vs. Homebrew DSi development

[questccg]

Okay,

So I got some answer regarding WEP and WPA encryption from the other forum...

What I would like to know, is anyone know what it takes to be able to develop a licensed Nintedo game?

And when I mean licensed, I mean an actual Slot 1 cartridge with a piece of software...

I guess they don't make agreements with just anybody... And I don't think you can simply *play around* with the device like you could with Homebrew development...!

Really the thing to me sounds *impossible* unless you are VERY SERIOUS. Personally, I would like to *develop* the application/game and then see if I would want to SELL it. Right now, that was not the direction I was heading for...

But I guess other games are available to download from Nintendo...

I like the concept with Homebrew that I can develop the application and then simply put it onto my Micro DS card and then slip it into a flashcart and run the application. Seems very *SIMPLE* to me.

Whereas the whole "get a licensing agreement with Nintendo" in order to sell a game... Seems like CLIMBING a mountain (like Mount Everest or something like that).

Please comment, I would like to hear what other gamers think!

 

[VatoLoco]

I would imagine it's not easy to get your foot in the door as far as getting a game/app officially licensed.

just some interesting reading:
here's the starting point of Colors!, a homebrew that eventually became a commercial title.
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=13513

and here's a potential DSiWare title that ended up being released as a homebrew.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/duyumania.320298/

 

[Luigi2012SM64DS]

Im pretty sure nothing made by one guy in his mom's basement will be accepted and made into retail cartridges. You probably need a whole team of developers and acutally put time into making a quality product.
Something made by one guy would either have to be released as homebrew or 3Dware on the eshop.

 

[Duo8]

You could try making an eShop indie instead. Nintendo is opening up these days.

 

[questccg]

Im pretty sure nothing made by one guy in his mom's basement will be accepted and made into retail cartridges. You probably need a whole team of developers and acutally put time into making a quality product.
Something made by one guy would either have to be released as homebrew or 3Dware on the eshop.

No I would not be alone (for the development - yes) but I would also have artists working with me... Using the Micro Transaction model, it would be much easier to be able to give out royalties in exchange for artwork... That's the cool thing about Micro Transactions: it can allow a developer the opportunity to develop a GREAT looking game... This allows me to hire a graphics designer, maybe a couple of artists for different aspects of the app, etc.

eShop is that only for the 3DS? I'm working with a DSi... So DSiWare and such might be a possibility...

Again as far as development goes, I used to be a hard-core C programmer (Real-Time, Server development). So I like the fact that DS/DSi development is in C. Not much of a C++ programmer, never did much OOD/OOP. I get it but I'm a much better C, procedural developer.

And as far as my app is concerned, it's not a rich, *animated* content. Mostly nice static visuals, some MP3 background music would be cool: I know a great Sound Engineer that worked for Sony. He's done some custom music for me before: visit http://www.questccg.com and turn on your speakers...
The background music is pretty cool - seeing as it is CUSTOM music (nothing pre-recorded). It has the *battle* theme I was looking for (and a Gong at the end!)

Anyhow I still have a LOT of research to do - to determine what is possible and what is not...

Oh and my app has nothing to do with the game at http://www.questccg.com ... Just wanted to shamelessly promote the background music! Haha.

 

[Duo8]

I'm not sure if the DSi supports microtransactions or not. IIRC it doesn't, as well as DLC support, update support and download code support.
I suggest going with the 3DS. Better hardware/eShop and stuff.

 

[questccg]

I'm not sure if the DSi supports microtransactions or not.

All I need is a web-server that lies somewhere in the Internet and a way to make HTTP calls to it (like HTTP GET). It's like accessing a HTTP page from an application. Next you need to encode a response to the call... This is web service programming (no SOAP - but it's SOA). Then you create the Server Side to respond to requests. You can pass parameters to the Server and it would then be able to use the parameters to call server routines,

So if it supports HTTP calls, it can support Micro Transactions. My bet is even with the older DS Light, if you can manage to get the Internet connectivity to work (less options than the DSi), you could also allow Micro Transactions.

It's got to do with HOW you program the interactivity with the server. Using Request-Response (with a web service interface) allows you the possibilities of communicating with an Internet Server. You can build all of the Server side using something like PHP and MySQL (database). You can design the whole Internet website using PayPal (to process Micro Transactions - things like $5.00 for 500 in-game currency). That only requires your typical LOGIN/SUBSCRIBE, then account auditing (saving profiles in MySQL), a store front for selling various game commodities (I think you can even *buy* the store from instead of developing it from scratch) all you would need to do is PayPal integration (which is pretty straight forward - not the prettiest but it will work).

So ya, I don't think it would be *impossible* to develop a way of using the DSi to handle Micro Transactions once the device is connected to the Internet.

I'm not saying it's simple - but it's *doable*... I have seen some Socket code (it ain't pretty either). The sample uses a HTTP GET with no paramters. Wish the example had parameters... Would have been simpler to say: "Yes FOR CERTAIN you can implement Micro Transactions..."

What you do are effectively doing is *abstracting* the server side of things from the client (DSi). All of the monetization should be done via PayPal and the store-front. The only thing that you need to make sure the DSi can do is make simple validations/checks (to make sure a gamer has paid for assets) and then have a way to send the assets over (from Server to your DSi SDHC card...) It's not overly complicated.

Once you divide the two aspects (Server and DSi), you can pretty much handle each one separately.

 

[KazoWAR]

I think I remember something about as a requirement for getting a Nintendo SDK, you need to have an already working game that they can judge on pc, or something like that.

 

[questccg]

I think I remember something about as a requirement for getting a Nintendo SDK, you need to have an already working game that they can judge on pc, or something like that.

That makes sense - they want to see how good it is... If it's something they would allow to be published. If you publish one game - you can probably publish more titles (since by then you should have the official Nintendo SDK and Developer Support - probably via some official Nintendo forums or something like Microsoft's MSDN...)

 

[loco365]

I think I remember something about as a requirement for getting a Nintendo SDK, you need to have an already working game that they can judge on pc, or something like that.

Yeah, you need proof as a game developer so they can see your skills and whatnot. I don't think they have a limitation on what system you developed for though.

 

[stomp_442]

I downloaded free from the developer, a GBA game called Qwak, he was giving away for a short time in ROM format on his website. You could have bought the game cart but he sold all of them. Maybe you could talk to the developer and see how he went about producing a game cartridge.

http://www.qwak.co.uk/pages/gba/buy.php

 

[KazoWAR]

I downloaded free from the developer, a GBA game called Qwak, he was giving away for a short time in ROM format on his website. You could have bought the game cart but he sold all of them. Maybe you could talk to the developer and see how he went about producing a game cartridge.

http://www.qwak.co.uk/pages/gba/buy.php

prolly the same thing the fake gba games are made on.

 

[stomp_442]

prolly the same thing the fake gba games are made on.

That would make sense, then he didn't go thru Nintendo. I know he was giving away the rom and there was a story behind why he produced the game cartridge. I even emailed the dev and asked him if I could distribute his game since I downloaded from him for free, but he said I couldn't, so I never distributed it.

 

[questccg]

I have been *searching* more about Official Nintendo SDKs and it appears to be called either "Nitro" or "TWL". I think "Nitro" is for the DS while "TWL" is for the DSi... Not 100% certain. People are saying that SDKs are available at a price ranging from $2,500 to $10,000 dollars. It depends on the platform for the game. Wario World, the official Nintendo Developer website states that the starting price is $2,500...

Moreover there is a company called Intelligent Systems (in Japan: see http://www.intsys.co.jp/english/tools/index.html) that develops Nintendo DSi development tools. I don't know if these are the ones mentioned (Nitro or TWL) or not.

 

[VashTS]

develop a game with a DSi mode exploit so we all can profit! yay!

 

[stanleyopar2000]

we can all look at bobs game....but that guy was also fuckin psycho

 

[Duo8]

...

Yeah I guess it's possible. But you'll have to handle security yourself, and again I'm not even sure Nintendo would allow you to do it yourself. IIRC they denied a EA game before because EA insists on adding Origins in it.
And remember: DSi Shop Channel doesn't support updates. That means you'll have to handle updating yourself aswell.

I have been *searching* more about Official Nintendo SDKs and it appears to be called either "Nitro" or "TWL". I think "Nitro" is for the DS while "TWL" is for the DSi... Not 100% certain. People are saying that SDKs are available at a price ranging from $2,500 to $10,000 dollars. It depends on the platform for the game. Wario World, the official Nintendo Developer website states that the starting price is $2,500...

Moreover there is a company called Intelligent Systems (in Japan: see http://www.intsys.co.jp/english/tools/index.html) that develops Nintendo DSi development tools. I don't know if these are the ones mentioned (Nitro or TWL) or not.

Yep it's TWL for DSi.
Intelligent Systems is a Nintendo 2nd party that makes devkits for their consoles.

 

[questccg]

And remember: DSi Shop Channel doesn't support updates. That means you'll have to handle updating yourself aswell.
...
Yep it's TWL for DSi.
Intelligent Systems is a Nintendo 2nd party that makes devkits for their consoles.

Well I have been thinking about *updates*. And I have been looking at things like Mono (Scripting Engine: http://www.mono-project.com/Scripting_With_Mono). Specifically what I was having problems with is ROM updates...

See if I deliver DYNAMIC content using Micro Transactions, that only covers things like DATA (images, audio, etc.) But what about NEW player interaction??? That's a completely other story - DYNAMIC SCRIPTING. So I have 2 choices, either I code ALL of the interaction right away (and release a ROM) OR I use a Scripting Engine and try to deliver dynamic coding...

The dynamic scripting thing is a totally new concept to me. I just know that some game engines use things like Mono... And I could maybe deliver the scripting code via Wi-Fi updates.

TWL is for DSi - that's great, now I know for certain!

Is it Intelligent Systems that developed TWL or do they develop another 3rd party tool/SDK???

 

[Duo8]

Well I have been thinking about *updates*. And I have been looking at things like Mono (Scripting Engine: http://www.mono-project.com/Scripting_With_Mono). Specifically what I was having problems with is ROM updates...

See if I deliver DYNAMIC content using Micro Transactions, that only covers things like DATA (images, audio, etc.) But what about NEW player interaction??? That's a completely other story - DYNAMIC SCRIPTING. So I have 2 choices, either I code ALL of the interaction right away (and release a ROM) OR I use a Scripting Engine and try to deliver dynamic coding...

The dynamic scripting thing is a totally new concept to me. I just know that some game engines use things like Mono... And I could maybe deliver the scripting code via Wi-Fi updates.

TWL is for DSi - that's great, now I know for certain!

Is it Intelligent Systems that developed TWL or do they develop another 3rd party tool/SDK???

Int. Systems developed the official TWL SDK, as well as NTR SDK, CTR SDK, RVL SDK, ... AFAIK.