Hacking Legend of Heroes Translation

[amc9988]

Cool thing is about this project (is even though you're doing it for the love of the game) is that there is a strong possibility that XSeed will license it and use it as the official release of these games commercially like they've been known to do in the past with the Y's games.

http://legendsoflocalization.com/these-fan-translations-became-official-translations/

Again I know the main reason to want to do these was NOT for financial gain, but it's nice to see the possibility that you might be rewarded for all of your hard work and it might eventually lead to a official release fully sanctioned by the licensor of the games. Pretty neat indeed. Cheers and good luck. ;-)

And all these drama started with this single, harmless? post... SIGH

 

[yurayurato]

I don't know if it will matter to you, but they did recognize the issues

No, it doesn't matter if they fixed or recognized the issues.

My whole point in showing those typos and completely made up sentences was to show the hypocrisy of Velesk of saying "they wouldn't pay $100 for a google translated translation", while selling a worse-than-google-translated game. They would actually pay more than $100 for a translation that is worse than google-translated garbage.

If Velesk is an XSeed employee, he deserves to be punched for having the audacity to register on this website just to spout such contradictory post. His post was The pot calling the kettle black at its finest, and he should be ashamed for ever posting what he did.
In case he's just a normal person than he should still be ashamed for holding XSeed to such standards they simply don't deserve to be held on, and be ashamed for his poorly-informed post.

As for your comment on "errors were caused by bringing in fan translators".
I know some very good translators that would put whoever works at XSeed on their knees that has worked on fan translated works and are deserving of respect.
The error was clearly on their side for not properly checking the credence of who they hire, no matter the circumstance they found themselves in, the mistakes are on them.

 

[zero_g_monkey]

I had originally just decided to ignore all the nonsense but there are things I think need serious clarification.

1) The Translation
I specifically asked the translators to give me a very literal translation. I did not want them to be responsible for having to worry about context in terms of writing the story without a full translation of the entire game (we are very very close to that point). That is the script writers job. To take the translation and make something amazing out of it. That is where I will come in. All this stuff you guys are pulling from the POC video on Youtube are from files that are nearly 2 years old. Yeah. We have been working on this a long time. They also stem from the possibility of being some of that google translate shit that people tried to slip past Guren. Him, Yangxu and Flame have taken great pains to check the work. If you want proof, well that won't happen. Due to people thinking they can come in and edit files without the consent of the team, we had to lock them down and you have to have our permission to even see them. I have over 2 terabytes of resources that I have gathered to try to create my own Kiseki Bible. I am not taking the project likely. Don't insult my translators. If you think you can do a better job, nobody is stopping you from doing the game yourself

2) I don't hate Xseed.
If I hated them, I sure as hell would not have scouring the country to find a copy of Cold Steel (which I acquired last night thanks to one of my drivers). I even bought the SE. I also have copies of FC and SC on my PC. I have purchased many other games of theirs in the past. I am a fan of the Wild Arms series. I more than likely have more of their releases. I do however get extremely sick and tired of hearing about them with regards to this translation. I keep a close eye on announcements in case they ever did decide to pick it up. But from all my watching, according to them, the Crossbell Arc isn't that important and can be skipped. This was my perception of the situation. My views about Nightwolve vs. Xseed are my own opinion formed from looking into numerous outlets for information and being provided with certain details not available to the public. I am entitled to my own opinion as anybody else is.

3) Spreading misinformation
If you wanna throw your voice around in the ring. Do it here. Don't go posting stuff to other sites that I just recently even cared to notice. I have not been to places like NeoGaf to see what is going down there but I have been informed that it does exist. There is 2 places I discuss this project on the internet - GBATemp and our personal site/forum. If you wanna talk about this. That is where to find me. Don't be scared. I won't bite your head off. But I will stand my ground for my convictions. I really am a nice guy but I am also very good at being an a$$hole.

4) Conclusion
If you want to talk about the project in a civil manner. Then please continue to do so. If not, I will ask that a moderator lock this thread down. I don't want this to turn into a thread of random people showing up trying to show how big their balls/vagina are with how much of an expert you are on this series. I like to learn new stuff and find hidden gems about the games, but I HATE people coming in here acting high and mighty. If you know so much about the games and are fluent in Japanese, why do you care what happens to the english fan translation (and trust me people, you need to be fluent with a game this dialog heavy 1.4+ million characters).

On that note. I am gonna ignore this thread for a few days and hopefully people will get over themselves. Feel free to post about the games in a civil manner. I will agree to not share my opinions about how companies do things as long as people quit bringing them up (and that includes sending me PMs).

 

[Velesk]

No, it doesn't matter if they fixed or recognized the issues.

My whole point in showing those typos and completely made up sentences was to show the hypocrisy of Velesk of saying "they wouldn't pay $100 for a google translated translation", while selling a worse-than-google-translated game. They would actually pay more than $100 for a translation that is worse than google-translated garbage.

If Velesk is an XSeed employee, he deserves to be punched for having the audacity to register on this website just to spout such contradictory post. His post was The pot calling the kettle black at its finest, and he should be ashamed for ever posting what he did.
In case he's just a normal person than he should still be ashamed for holding XSeed to such standards they simply don't deserve to be held on, and be ashamed for his poorly-informed post.

As for your comment on "errors were caused by bringing in fan translators".
I know some very good translators that would put whoever works at XSeed on their knees that has worked on fan translated works and are deserving of respect.
The error was clearly on their side for not properly checking the credence of who they hire, no matter the circumstance they found themselves in, the mistakes are on them.

First of all, I am not an Xseed employee. I am merely a fan of Kiseki and a localisation critic.

Second of all, I cannot defend the translation of The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky (PSP original). However there is a reason for this and I have been privy to information regarding this situation. Sadly I made a promise not to leak that information. Thus I am unfortunately at a disadvantage to explain the reason for it's poor quality.
I want you to know I myself was vocal and am mad at Xseed for what happened. However that was an extraordinary situation and their later releases have been significantly better.

Lastly I would just like to say I have been privy to some information regarding how this fan translation is being conducted. Again I cannot divulge what this information is or who gave it to me. But based on it I can safely say that neither Zero or Flame know what they are doing .

I know most of this is probably hollow because I cannot provide evidence to back it up. Sadly this is the nature of the industry.

Edit:
Oh, regarding your "Kiseki bible" and current progress, Zero.
Why can't you take some screenshots of the script and your materials as proof?
If your major gripe is having people make false edits... then screenshots would be good, right? Can't edit your script via a screenshot, can ya?
Or just... I don't know... keep your fingers in your ears and pretend not to listen. Whatever.
Who cares about talent anyway?

 

[Erpy]

I keep a close eye on announcements in case they ever did decide to pick it up. But from all my watching, according to them, the Crossbell Arc isn't that important and can be skipped.

I just wanted to post a quick correction, this isn't what they said. They never claimed that the Crossbell Arc wasn't important and could be skipped. If they had said that, the Kiseki fans on their site would have very quickly corrected them seeing that the Crossbell Arc is, at this point, considered the central arc of the series.

The reason they skipped the Crossbell Arc was because Falcom made a specific (and fairly adamant) request to localize the Erebonia games first. Cold Steel was considered a fairly good starting point for new players to jump in and since the Erebonian arc runs on PS3 or Vita, Falcom wanted the games localized before those platforms faded into obscurity, which would have happened in the time it would have taken to localize 3rd, Zero and Ao. So skipping ahead wasn't initially XSeed's idea, it was a specific request from Falcom.

In fact, given that XSeed's editor has repeatedly stated she would love to work on 3rd, Zero and Ao and is frequently bugging her colleagues about it, it seems XSeed's actual stance is the exact opposite of what you claim it is, even though they're unlikely to make any public commitments unless they're certain they're able to fulfill them in timely order.

Soooo....I'm not sure where you got that information, but it's incorrect. They did say it was possible to play and enjoy Cold Steel without having played the Crossbell Arc, which is kind of true since the story stands on its own well enough to not lean too heavily on Zero/Ao lore.

 

[Robert10]

I keep a close eye on announcements in case they ever did decide to pick it up. But from all my watching, according to them, the Crossbell Arc isn't that important and can be skipped.

you sure you kept a close eye on announcements? Because nobody (except trolls) has ever said that Crossbell arc isn't important, not even XSEED, at best they said that it can be skipped (which you can) because Sen/Cold Steel takes place at the same timeline as Crossbell arc.

 

[NightWolve]

Someones been listening to a little too much Nightwolve
Conspiracies are a hell of a drug

The facts of what happened with Lipschultz, Jeff "DeuceBag" Nussbaum and X.X.XSEED Games are quite clear!

Take into account that Nightwolve is either respected or a complete laughing stock, depending on who you talk to. From what I've seen from my site's readers, he's pretty heavily disliked from a majority of them.

Take into account that omgfailure here has actively been demonizing me since 2007 wherever she can, that's 9 years of perpetual bigoted butthurt and counting because I didn't want to continue with a "Legend of Heroes VI:FC" fan translation project for free!

I'm certainly thankful our partnership was short-lived too, as that could've been her with X.X.XSEED's Lipschultz cheating me on yet another translated script had she finished, but as far as I know, omgfailure has always claimed to be a fan translator, yet I know of no script that she ever actually finished! Hence "omgfailure!" She even wasted about a month of my time on the Ys II Complete/Chronicles script, which forced me to beg and go back to DeuceBag, and of course I still got bit in the ass for that bigtime!

Someone called FalcomFan once referred to her as a cyber-bully, and while I never would've thought to use that word in the past, I have to agree it's quite appropriate in her case! Be very careful you don't cross Psycho Kirsten here, she is the petty grudge champion! But yeah, these are little details this charmer failed to mention on why "a majority of her visiting bigots" might hate me...

[Regarding Andrew Dice]

I don't know the guy, and as far as I know, he never actively tried to cheat his partners, so I think he very much does deserve sympathy based on his story which I read.

I did note the coincidence in how X.X.XSEED found itself with more drama from its translators as DeuceBag also tried to kill himself. That is, unless he was lying to me which is a very possibility. His delusional lies have added up, but he still promotes himself as some firm truth-teller. At the time, he was trying to manipulate me (with some sympathy plays) into working on Ys Origin (which I did) because I wanted to retire, delete everything, and that's the point where he told me such personal things, so yeah, I dunno if anything from that conversation can be trusted.

Anyway, I wouldn't attack this Dice guy in such a way. It seems petty and unless you can show me other negative qualities in his life, I wouldn't bother. In principle I wouldn't, but I've made exceptions with people such as DeuceBag for example, so I'm no angel when it comes to that either (just being upfront).

 

[Robert10]

Take into account that omgfailure here has actively been demonizing me since 2007 wherever she can, that's 9 years of perpetual bigoted butthurt and counting because I didn't want to continue with a "Legend of Heroes VI:FC" fan translation project for free!

You know on how actions speak louder than words? Your facebook and twitter posts speak a very very different story,

 

[NightWolve]

Wow, you sure got me! Except that people who cheat me out of once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, who attempt to take out hit-pieces on videogame magazines, who manipulated me for years to the point where I mistakenly gave them $550 are gonna get return fire hate and demonization right back in their direction!!! At no point did I somehow claim I don't hit back/criticize/attack as you seem to be implying, whatever shoddy point you were trying to make!

Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Psycho Kirsten Miller has been demonizing since 2007 for petty reasons. I would understand something more tangible, like if I cheated her to such an extent, killed her dog, emptied her bank account, YOU KNOW, tangible, sane reasons to REALLY REALLY hate somebody! She's a bigot, always was, and I never should've had anything to do with her. That very very short partnership on ED6 seems to have gained me some sort of lifelong obsessed hatemonger and she isn't the only one... You want more ? I don't shy away about what I feel about this monster: http://www.ysutopia.net/forums/index.php?topic=428.msg3855#msg3855

I'm not gonna even ask as far as your monitoring and instant attempt to fetch snapshots from my FB/Twitter... You figured out that cheating somebody, making a fool out of them, might make them very very angry ?? Wow, smart guy! Are you attempting to claim my grievance with DeuceBag is "petty" the way omgfailure's is to me ?? If you're gonna call that petty, I'm sorry, you got a screw loose and a good knack for making false comparisons!

 

[Buzzandre]

I am entitled to my own opinion as anybody else is.

You most certainly are, but as what amounts to the face of your group you're subject to a lot more scrutiny than normal, just like a manager in a professional company. When you speak you are essentially speaking for all involved, and that in turn reflects on your group and project. I don't particularly care what you think in your own time, but hearing absurd anti-XSEED rambling concerned me about the direction your project may be taking, which worries me as I do genuinely hope it turns out well. You've already got enough of a negative cloud hanging over you all from connections to that machine translated Nayuta garbage, there's no need to make this project more of a target.
If you and the other guys are doing good work, then that's great, I look forward to seeing a well translated game and less obnoxious rants.

 

[Syth]

as that could've been her with X.X.XSEED's Lipschultz cheating me on yet another translated script had she finished,

Lipschultz never cheated you out of anything. And the ten thousand vitriolic words you've written on the topic doesn't change that very basic fact.

 

[Robert10]

Wow, you sure got me! Except that people who cheat me out of once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, who attempt to take out hit-pieces on videogame magazines, who manipulated me for years to the point where I mistakenly gave them $550 are gonna get return fire hate and demonization right back in their direction!!! At no point did I somehow claim I don't hit back/criticize/attack as you seem to be implying!

Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Psycho Kirsten Miller has been demonizing since 2007 for petty reasons. I would understand something more tangible, like if I cheated her to such an extent, killed her dog, emptied her bank account, YOU KNOW, tangible, sane reasons to REALLY REALLY hate somebody! She's a bigot, always was, and I never should've had anything to do with her. That very very short partnership on ED6 seems to have gained me some sort of lifelong obsessed hatemonger and she isn't the only one... You want more ? I don't shy away about what I feel about this monster: http://www.ysutopia.net/forums/index.php?topic=428.msg3855#msg3855

So you think/felt you got cheated over something that you were never supposed to get official credits from even though you worked on the program to compile the translations. Okay, as a fellow programmer, you had my sympathy, or at least used to, till you went full on whining mode instead of moving on. Your facebook group is basically filled with nothing but whining and non-stop demonizing of XSEED and deuce (who you call deucebag), and lets not forget your twitter, so frankly you calling someone out for demonizing you for 9 years is funny, because nobody but your believers will believe you after all of that vitriol you spewed out.

 

[Syth]

So you think/felt you got cheated over something that you were never supposed to get official credits from even though you worked on the program to compile the translations. Okay, as a fellow programmer, you had my sympathy

People always sympathize in these situations, but unfortunately there was never any requirement for XSeed to compensate NW for anything. The issue should have been between himself and Deuce, him bringing XSeed into the equation was when people started tuning off.

 

[flame1234]

machine translated Nayuta garbage

If you downloaded it and played it, you would enjoy it. That's how I know you haven't. You're just denying possibly yourself and possibly others fun. Why do this? It doesn't make sense.
Your enjoyment comes mostly from this excellent game Falcom made, but in part due to my team's efforts as well.
Taking the idea to its logical conclusion:
A JA game with its text replaced by random characters is the same as the original - you can't understand anything.
But, if it's replaced so that you can understand one line, it's better than the original already. It's probably not "enjoyable to play" just yet, but it's one step closer for sure.
So that leads to my personal philosophy: Some translation is better than no translation.
Taking that idea to its logical conclusion doesn't work either. If a game has only the first line of the script translated and nothing else, it's probably not worth your time just yet. But people aren't stupid, even people on the internet. They tend to pick things that might be more helpful, like explanations text, command lists, item lists & skill lists, which will help you enjoy it more than the first line of the script will.
I'm not arguing that things of poor quality are better than things of good quality. It's just...that's the best I could do. And, like in Dragon Quest, no [translation] help came; I got a lot of help on the other aspects.
I get that QA can be important if you're asking for money. I ask for no money though...I just hope you'll enjoy it.
I also get that you can control distribution better if you release a patch only once - that makes sure patches on other sites you don't control don't have outdated versions.

If you wouldn't care to enjoy the (poorly translated) story, you can hold X during scripted scenes to fast-forward through and skip them.
I admit it's of low quality, but saying it's valueless is simple flaming. Anyway, if anyone wants to help with something Nayuta, feel free to send me a PM. All the Nayuta tools and sources are public too, go get them in the Nayuta thread; you can get over there using the link in my sig. So feel free to modify them, copy and make your own, whatever you want. Edited images and image tools aren't public, but feel free to take the edited ones from the current patch version and include them in yours. Give credit or not, I don't care. I'll know I helped create your patch, and that's good enough for me. This is the internet after all. I won't blame you for stealing either - feel free to take them. That's the best I could do, that's why you got that. If you can do better, please feel free!

I found the spell check button in Google Sheets, so I can do a little better now, but not by much.

 

[NightWolve]

If you're not an employee, shame on you for thinking they would fare better than a guy with a dictionary and google translator on their hands. After all, PSP's version of FC show that Xseed does use google translator and dictionaries to translate their works (it was really awful), so holding them up on that high pillar is quite odd. As far as I can see on this angle, Xseed is actually lower than the leader of this project, because they try to sell you google translated games. I wouldn't go running my mouth like that and risk sounding like an hypocrite, but you just did exactly that.

I can clarify here on DeuceBag and his failure with ED6:FC for the PSP port. He's a WWWJDIC translation hack basically. Every string he translates has to be converted to unicode and copied+pasted to this website by Jim Breen for submission: http://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?9T

For images, you must transcribe the text out, draw it on a Japanese IME pad/match it up, then copy the unicode char out to build it all up for submission, etc. You get the idea... Not fun, which is why for our Felghana fan translation project Lipschultz (the man who would later be hired by XSEED and cheat me with him) came onboard and translated the 12 Manual images for me since he was a real translator and could read Japanese directly from images without all the drawing bullshit work on a PC!

Now, with our Ys scripts where you had on average 2,000 strings, DeuceBag got away with being a translation hack most of the time, but ED6:FC is one of the largest scripts in videogame history clocking in at about 60,000 strings or 2.2 megs when it comes to byte/char size!!! So, him hacking away string by string 60,000 times on a website like this was bound to catch up with his sorry butt, and thankfully it did!!!

Now I'm happy he failed miserably and they eventually kicked him to the curb starting with Ys VI/Celceta, he doesn't deserve ANY of it that he gained off my back/translation software/work hours, BUT, what I don't quite understand about the PSP debacle is Lipschultz himself... He's a POS, but he's a *real* translator full and full, and he was supposed to back DeuceBag up on 2nd pass reviewing/checking or should've in principle! Perhaps they had him doing other things, I dunno...? Huge script like that, you don't have multiple people doing 2nd and 3rd pass checks ??

Anyway, that embarrassment couldn't have happened to a more deserving, divisive and shameful company!

 

[flame1234]

I can clarify here on DeuceBag and his failure with ED6:FC for the PSP port. He's a WWWJDIC translation hack basically. Every string he translates has to be converted to unicode and copied+pasted to this website by Jim Breen for submission: http://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?1C

Well today, there are better tools like Rikaichan and Rikaisama that do the same thing with just a mouse-over. Use Google if interested.

For images, you must transcribe the text out, draw it on a Japanese IME pad/match it up, then copy the unicode char out to build it all up for submission, etc. You get the idea... Not fun,

It's not that hard, I like doing this. It's also not like you have to do this for every character either, the more common ones you're likely to know how to read & type them.

To make matters a bit even more interesting than that, there are automated translation methods used by visual novel players. It pulls the text as the game displays it. Then you can see a machine TL of the line or maybe several different ones (Google Translate isn't the only one out there folks), and also the line split apart into Japanese words you can mouseover for the definition, with readings as well. See here: (NSFW) http://oyatsu-jikan.org/machine-assisted-visual-novel-reading-copied-and-updated/

It's truly an exciting time in which we now live, isn't it.

 

[Goofy Time]

You know, I wonder if one can ever attempt at making a case of reason if they choose to give people consistently mocking, berating names as they whine and whine to make their case.

Youtube comments don't even dig that low. Pretty sad to see that Ys Oath guy still bitter as the world moves on. One should pick battles and not play an egoic game in their mind; it only looks absurd to outsiders. Very astutely it appears the man holds grudges for eternity.

It's a "worlds collide" kind of feeling to see that fringe-esque drama hijack this thread. I guess niche Falcom shit brings out the fringe crazies.

 

[Tantrum]

Okay. I think the mods should do something.
This kind of thing that's happening here is what destroy half of the translation projects.
A bunch o tryhards autistic floc complaining about everything and making a huge drama out of nowhere.

If you guys don't like this translation, fine. Don't download it. It's a free project after all.

If you guys thing that xseed is the holy grail and that "ONLY IT" have the rights to do this translation, fine. Go there to their forum and beg them like you already do every day for 4 years. Maybe they will change their statement that "they will not touch PSP games anymore". Maybe you can convince then and they can do another machine translation and sell full price to your guys. Do it. I don't care. But don't post here. Go away. Let Zero do his thing alone.





It's very sad that I have to register just so I can say this. You people look like a bunch of elitists pricks, that think that they are entitled to everything is this world.
Some even speak as if they know how the rom translation community works. You guys don't know shit.
Back in the day you would get a really bad translation, full of glitches, and you would be very happy bacause you would finally be able to understand the story after all.
The community used to be united and everyone would help with bug testing, terms, etc...
There's no blog or twitter back then so people didn't complain and generate drama. Everything was fine as heaven.

But then the autistic floc came. They began to destroy the community. Complaning about everything.
Making the whole proccess of translation a fucking hell to the team. A lot of projects began to die because of it.
You guys simply don't know when to shut up. If you are not complaining about "muh bad english", you are complaining about lack of updates or trying to defend a for-profit company that don't need you as their white knight.

Sorry mods for this little rant of mine (and for "muh bad english" too) but I'm pretty fed up of seeing some great projects being cancelled because of retards.

 

[Fugsnarf]

I don't really care about any of the bullshit these guys are saying. I'm just here to say that there are a lot of people, like myself, that are just lurking here, love that this project exists, and are very thankful for your work on it. Don't let a vocal minority discourage you. Most people who want to play this game have no interest in any of this drama and just want to finally play Trails of Zero. So, again, thanks for all your hard work. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[sedef122]

Wow, you sure got me! Except that people who cheat me out of once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, who attempt to take out hit-pieces on videogame magazines, who manipulated me for years to the point where I mistakenly gave them $550 are gonna get return fire hate and demonization right back in their direction!!! At no point did I somehow claim I don't hit back/criticize/attack as you seem to be implying, whatever shoddy point you were trying to make!

Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Psycho Kirsten Miller has been demonizing since 2007 for petty reasons. I would understand something more tangible, like if I cheated her to such an extent, killed her dog, emptied her bank account, YOU KNOW, tangible, sane reasons to REALLY REALLY hate somebody! She's a bigot, always was, and I never should've had anything to do with her. That very very short partnership on ED6 seems to have gained me some sort of lifelong obsessed hatemonger and she isn't the only one... You want more ? I don't shy away about what I feel about this monster: http://www.ysutopia.net/forums/index.php?topic=428.msg3855#msg3855

I'm not gonna even ask as far as your monitoring and instant attempt to fetch snapshots from my FB/Twitter... You figured out that cheating somebody, making a fool out of them, might make them very very angry ?? Wow, smart guy! Are you attempting to claim my grievance with DeuceBag is "petty" the way omgfailure's is to me ?? If you're gonna call that petty, I'm sorry, you got a screw loose and a good knack for making false comparisons!

wow...just wow. I cannot see how someone can write this and still think their actions are justifiable. Re-read through your own posts man, you come off as a crazy person.