ROM Hack Game Center CX : Arino no Chosenjo 2 (New Start?)

[Celice]

Celice> Have you ever heard of TV Game Exam? (ぼくらのテレビゲーム検定 - http://tvgame-kentei.namco-ch.net/ )

It's a collection of mini-games as well. The interface felt a bit sluggish but it is the same sort of idea. I was actually interested in translating that since there isn't anywhere near the sheer amount of text this GCCX2 game has. I've never honestly took a look at the innards of the ROM image, though.

I didn't know about it, but thanks for sharing! I'd definitely be rooting for you if you wanted to take a look at TV Game Exam at some point

 

[Sludge]

This looks like fun, do you know how playable this is if you don't know how to read any Japanese?

Here's some gameplay footage, from the looks of things, you need to know Japanese to play it.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

It's not so bad once you figure out the basics, but sure, I'll tackle that when I'm done with this. TV Game Exam was very good but I felt the interface needed to be snappier. Maybe that's just me.

All right, I finished all the "heaven..." Files and that should cover the overworld and all dialogue up to the end of the four challenges but I'll have to check.

I also have to do the enemy names and guadia skills come to think about it. I'll try to post some more pics this weekend if I can, though I'm quite busy with the nursery graduation ceremony this weekend and the new term starting at work.

 

[Nightwish]

though I'm quite busy with the nursery graduation ceremony this weekend and the new term starting at work.

Booo. What's real life compared to offering RGC2 to us? Boo, I say.

Honestly, though, can't wait to appreciate your work.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, while I plug away at the RPG (I have a question about that to all of you too, more a bit later), SubnetPie has been working on the graphics and I think they look very nice. He changed the font to use the one from the original Retro Game Challenge (I think). Actually, I'll go over some of the changes:

1. On the main title screen, the title block/trapezoid is now solid black instead of transparent. Yeah, the original game was supposed to be opaque anyway but I guess I'm impartial to it being transparent vs. opaque. Note the new font in the main menu below.

2. Some more of the menus:

3. The Game shop flickering bug (I think I introduced myself originally :/ ) is fixed and the game selection screen there was updated a bit:

4. The "Cleared" screen was added. There is a "Failed" screen only in RGC2 but I am not sure if that is in here or not (yet) You can only get to the screen by phoning Arino (floating head Arino) and forfeiting the challenge.

5. This isn't done yet but I should point it out since I was testing it anyway. The Game introduction screen whenever a new game is released should be added as well. In the original game it was just horizontal text but in this one it is all slanted and "edgy" or whatever. I hope this isn't too much of a pain to change and is just a simple cosmetic difference.

(The text in that screen shot go something along the lines:

Game Year
1984
October 5 <- Maybe 10/05 is the quickest and easiest fix?

Wiz-Man Released) <- Lit. "Goes on sale" but I think Released works better in this case since it is just a label.

Now, on to the RPG. I remember reading about a creature/person that is a "Debug" menu in the RPG that lets you have all the weapons, items, spells, etc. That would be invaluable for testing. Does anyone know how to get that? I found the text related to that in the overworld files so I'm assuming it is somewhere accessable not too far into the game.

Other than that I'm doing the monster/ally "skills" and abilities. There are some odd ones in here and I'm not sure how it all fits together. I guess I'll just have to put in whatever I can and see.

The monster names are not yet in place. The Japanese descriptions are very vague and based on onomatopoeia so the names aren't obvious without looking at them. I wonder if there is a debug just to see all the enemies alongside their names...

EDIT> I'll try to get some more pics of the RPG up later today. It looks good but the dialogue could use some work, especially since the subject is omitted in many cases and I had to take a stab in the dark as to what people were referring to.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

I tested out some of the dialogue from random characters in town and did have success. I need to align the text better but at least I know what I'm working with now. With 3 lines, I can actually fit about as much per screen in these dialog windows as the Adventure game, so space isn't too much of an issue it looks like.

etc. (I started to wonder if I should use Ye Olde English for some of the dialogue but I think it would look weird to consistently use that when the menus and descriptions are plain English anyway; it would probably stick out like a sore thumb)

And for the weirdest update to the RPG, there are four lines in the game you see in the battle screen that describe how "well" (for lack of a better word) you strike the enemy. I couldn't find those lines anywhere in the RPG files and then I found it... in arm9.bin (what?) Oh well, all is well that ends well.

Anyway, I still have work to do but I thought I would share what I had before I stepped out the door to work.

I also noticed this thread got linked in a Wired article slamming the 3rd Game Center CX game. The link was broken when I went to see it this morning but it is recent so hopefully not too hard to find if you really wanted to see it. They basically had the same complaints I had though in the end they absolutely hated it. I don't hate it nearly as much as they do but I don't think it is anywhere near as good as the 2nd game.

Edit > http://www.wired.com/2014/03/game-center-cx-3-2/

 

[Celice]

All I'd say about the idea of adding a Middle English dialect to the text would be that that wouldn't quite be translating text, as much as making up your own version of the original text, like an inspired rewrite. Many fans and players seem completely alright the idea of losing the actual text-itself if it means getting something more entertaining, but that also in a way undermines the original text and pivots all the important stuff over to player expectation and pleasing. I am incredibly suspicious and concerned about the latter, and all for preserving the former.

 

[HumbertHumbert]

etc. (I started to wonder if I should use Ye Olde English for some of the dialogue but I think it would look weird to consistently use that when the menus and descriptions are plain English anyway; it would probably stick out like a sore thumb)

I agree, it would probably look out of place to use separate styles of English.

That said, Dragon Quest/Warrior 1 is the game being parodied, and it did have intentional Ye Olde English translation. (See http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/dragonquest/dragonquest1.htm : ("Nintendo put a lot of effort into its English translation, hoping that the massive success it found in Japan would be replicated overseas. All of the dialogue, including the battle narration, is written in old-style Elizabethan English (i.e. "Thou hast killed the slime!")")) However, given the apparent amount of text, I think it isn't a really worth the probably massive amount of time to re-write or modify.

Maybe a compromise (and probably not too far off from Dragon Quest/Warrior 1's original translation) is to globally search and replace a few key words, like "your" = "thy", "you" = "thou"? Even that isn't so important, just an idea.

 

[Sludge]

I agree, it would probably look out of place to use separate styles of English.

That said, Dragon Quest/Warrior 1 is the game being parodied, and it did have intentional Ye Olde English translation. (See http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/dragonquest/dragonquest1.htm : ("Nintendo put a lot of effort into its English translation, hoping that the massive success it found in Japan would be replicated overseas. All of the dialogue, including the battle narration, is written in old-style Elizabethan English (i.e. "Thou hast killed the slime!")")) However, given the apparent amount of text, I think it isn't a really worth the probably massive amount of time to re-write or modify.

Maybe a compromise (and probably not too far off from Dragon Quest/Warrior 1's original translation) is to globally search and replace a few key words, like "your" = "thy", "you" = "thou"? Even that isn't so important, just an idea.

They dropped that in later translations, and frankly I was glad to see it go. Games with faux accents (like the DS Dragon Quest 4) and "Ye Old English" have always annoyed me for some reason. I'd be happiest with just a standard English translation.

 

[Celice]

They dropped that in later translations, and frankly I was glad to see it go. Games with faux accents (like the DS Dragon Quest 4) and "Ye Old English" have always annoyed me for some reason. I'd be happiest with just a standard English translation.

Actually, and sadly, they've reintroduced the faux accents and dialogues even more violently. DQVIII was a bit of a start, but after that, every localization of the DS remakes have text that is overhauled and given weird accents, puns, jokes, and dialects just for the fuck's-sake of it. Even Bravely Default has text rewritten just to capitalize on weird running gags.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, I did about 230 files worth of Guadia skills and other special moves and attack items as they are used in battle (I think)

The next step is updating all the Guadia skills in the description windows. There are a lot of files but not all have content so it might not be too bad.

Consistency might be an issue at first, though. I'll just have to see it all together in action first though, I guess.

And yeah, I wasn't thinking the Ye Olde English was a great idea, either. Royalty should speak more formally than a common peasant perhaps, but I don't think I should take it further than that. Actually, I haven't seem some of the mentioned games here in English. I'm actually curious now what they did to them.

 

[HumbertHumbert]

They dropped that in later translations, and frankly I was glad to see it go. Games with faux accents (like the DS Dragon Quest 4) and "Ye Old English" have always annoyed me for some reason. I'd be happiest with just a standard English translation.

Yeah, I guess I should be clear - my comment was about accuracy to the source/reference material, but my own aesthetic opinion is that I don't like Ye Olde English as a style. If Aaron wants to skip it, I certainly am not complaining!

 

[Celice]

An official statement regarding the 3DS Game Center came out... it was mentioned that the developer felt the aesthetic and the feeling of the game would not cater to Western audiences, and that it would be difficult to localize the flavor. So instead, they are creating an edited version of the game to be more liked in the west A trailer was shown yesterday:

And yeah, I wasn't thinking the Ye Olde English was a great idea, either. Royalty should speak more formally than a common peasant perhaps, but I don't think I should take it further than that. Actually, I haven't seem some of the mentioned games here in English. I'm actually curious now what they did to them.

I think Dragon Quest IV DS is the best example. In the Japanese game, there are in-progress translations that a player can access by renaming some in-game folders/editing a few pointer bytes. Much of the text is in standard english, with formatting errors and such, and is generally pretty generic stuff. The remake introduced in-party chat which allowed other team members to communicate with each other, which was a feature not available in the original NES release (I don't think it was in the PSX remake either).

Final localization completely disregarded this feature and locked it out of the game. Kings of different castles were also given Russian, Irish, Spanish, French, and other accents for the sake of it, probably to add a worldly flavor (as the player starts in various different parts of the world). However, I don't think this feeling was natively part of the game, and so the localization took liberties and did not so much translate, as they began to create. Sure, it's interesting and fun, and a lot of the monsters get renamed to be puns, or to be more comically descriptive of the enemy's look than would be otherwise, but at the same time this isn't really the place of a translation to do so. Trying to work with entertainment is a very fishy thing :/

 

[Sludge]

Actually, I haven't seem some of the mentioned games here in English. I'm actually curious now what they did to them.

I haven't been plaing DQ4 for a while (I got side tracked by Morrowind) but I'd played up to Taloon's chapter. The people from the first chapter speak in a Scottish sort of dialect, which out of the three chapter's I've played is the most annoying. Here's an example:

I'm sure youse all will hae heard rumors aboot the wee kiddies gaein' missin' of late.

For the second chapter's kingdom speak in a kinda over elaborate stilted speech (this is actually two speech windows stitched together):

I hear from old Borya that you desire to journey for the purpose of testing your strenghts, no? Yoy! This cannot occur. You are a lady.

Finally from Taloon's chapter the villagers have a kinda informal "countryish" speech

A man's nuttin' without a shop Torneko. Ye're not goin' to be used by others all yer life.

 

[GHANMI]

It got so bad with the Dragon Quest games that I'm playing them using the French localization instead.
The translation is BAD, for anything post-DQ VII, bar maybe the Rocket Slime game.

The "Arino of the 3rd Street" trailer, I enjoyed it
After the publishing of the 7th S.. Eternal Odyssey retranslation full patch for the DS, and the recent update on the Tales of Hearts translation, I was searching for more enjoyable stories... and didn't come out disappointed

 

[Mars_x]

God, what is that game? Looks awesome (the one with a lot of legit retro games)!
The original Guadia Quest uses standard english, why change it now? I don't dig it.
Nice progress, can't wait for this game aAAAAA.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, first things first, SubnetPie has been doing excellent work on the graphics and I'll share some of that later as it is still in progress but I just wanted to acknowledge his fine work

Before I step out for work I got through the monster names/titles and attacks and related battle commands in addition to the 230 or so skill and ability files. At least the battles are playing out mostly in English now. Forgive the goofy character names.

There is a problem with items and spells not matching the description in some cases. I have no idea why that is happening since it is just a text substitution but there are a few ways to tackle that. If I have to I'll run side by side Jap/Eng versions to compare or I can use a strategy wiki to determine what is supposed to do what.

 

[Fishaman P]

It looks great!

There's probably an easier way to get at the GCCX1 English enemy names, but if memory serves, that enemy is called "Froggy".
EDIT: Yes, yes it is. It's pretty easy to find a Bestiary, but I didn't see one that had the names next to the sprites.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Hmm, that's a good point. I'll take a poke around online later to see what I can scavenge from the original game. This may also work with item names and spells (and skills) to a degree but there is bound to be a bunch of new content anyway.

At the moment I just wanted to put whatever I could in English to see what still needed to be done.

I know for dialogue, the tower... Lbs files are all that is left for the main challenges. I should only need a bit of it to cover the main challenges, but which part? It's all out of order. Oh well, it all needs to be done anyway...

I'll just keep plugging away at it but once these tower... files are done I'm going to go through and debug the items, skills and spells with their descriptions as well as enemy names.

I swore there was a debug man somewhere in the overworld to let you have everything (the dialogue is in the game)...that would help testing immensely.

 

[Sora de Eclaune]

Hey, I just noticed that the "Game Master Arino's Challenge" image(s) you're using on the Play / Manual / Details screen, above the boxes that later get check marks as you beat the challenges, is in a different arrangement than in the first game. Was this intentional? (see this for an example of what I mean. if that doesn't go to the right time, skip to 12:02)