ROM Hack Game Center CX : Arino no Chosenjo 2 (New Start?)

[The Real Jdbye]

YES. Please finish this translation!
I've been waiting years for someone to translate it, the first one was great! (and i still haven't beat it, now that I think about it... I think I got stuck on a hard game)

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Thank you, I will do what I can as I have time (right now I'm translating Excel-ish style on my Kindle Fire HD with Kingsoft Office...yeah, it is a mess) At least I can do it on the train heading to work (2 hour commute but there are transfers so it isn't 2 hours of straight concentration and sometimes I'm packed in so tight I can't do anything anyway)

I really wish I could just edit the text like a text file in a plain editor but that usually causes the game to freeze anyway.

Right now I notice that the menu option text isn't in the code as text which makes me think they might be graphics but I'll have to check into that.

If anyone out there is really good and fast at putting translations into the game just for testing purposes, I can dump a bunch of text on you sometime of course, but in the meantime I'll plod through.

Hopefully for the next update I can share a few other screens other than manuals. Maybe some in-game ones?

EDIT> Oh yes, might as well add this, too (If you haven't seen it, there is another screenshot on the 1st page of this thread I added earlier today). I still haven't decided if the currency used in the RPG game should be money, muni, gold, gil or what. In Japanese it is マネ (mane). I'm still limited by physical space on screen so I'll see if there are some nicer ways to shorten some of those from the original.

Edit again> Good news is that the magazines and manuals are fully changeable. Bad news is that I can't find the game text for the RPG or the Detective Kacho games except for the opening screen nor the menus. Looks like I have some more investigating to do... Hmm, I might have found the menu commands for the Detective Kacho adventure. I'll mess with this... and that did it! Now one big issue is the translation of ツッコむ and ボケてみる. Are these references to something in the Game Center CX series, I wonder? I could put them as "Ask" for the first one but the second one is a bit odd because it is also a type of asking but you act a bit silly ("Joke"?). I need to play this minigame again to get a feel for what dialogue ensues from using them.

(Don't mind me, I find it helpful to do a brain dump so I can go back to it later)

Hmm, the tile editor seems to work but I'm no artist so I'll see if there is anything from the first Retro Game Challenge I can Copy/Paste.

 

[Popz]

Just to say that you got full support from GCCX french fans. We've been waiting this game for too long. Thank you for your hard work. Your a hero.
I'll gladly help you within the limits of my ridiciulous skills if you need it.

About ツッコむ and ボケてみる, I think (I only got very very little japanese skills), but these words make me think of the traditionnal japanese comedy group (manzai) like Downtown or Arino's own manzai, Yoiko. Basically there is a straight guy (tsukkomi) and a funny guy (boke) and the wit of the comedy duo comes from the opposition of the two characters. I believe there is some sort of connection with that, also tsukkomi come from the verb tsukkomu (突っ込む) so I think you should explore this possibility. I'm not skilled enough to help more than that, sorry.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Thanks for the reply. I will do what I can to get this done an out. I can sit beside someone and chat them through the game but to translate it and modify the ROM takes exponentially longer.

Thanks for the Tsukkomu and Boketemiru explanation. I figured it was based on the Tsuukomi comedy routine but couldn't quite figure how to work that into menu options for an adventure game. I'm also limited to about 8 characters so even though they are both variants on what would be "Ask" or "Inquire" they are different in the methods/wording used.

Even though it wouldn't be a correct translation par se, I've been wondering if "Inquire" and "Chat" would work in the context of the game. "Inquire" can be the 'serious' inquiry about something and "Chat" can just be some water-cooler talk or on-the-fly comment made about something.

I'm not totally against mucking up the vocab a little bit considering the space restrictions and the fact that is just how it was done in the earlier days anyway. With Infocom games, even though they were text-only (and there was a lot of it) the commands tended to be very simple and short, with short words and abbreviations/codes used in place of longer words for brevity and speed.

Back to this game, I think if I can match up the tiles, I can recreate some of the graphics from the first game in this one. For example, recreating the infamous title screenshot from the other translation group at the beginning of the year. If the menu options are there too that would make things a lot easier.

I'm still looking for the opening star-wars scroll text, though.

And finally, I'm happy to have such positive support with this. I am very busy with work and home but I have been working through the translation of the text and I do have a few holidays coming up.

If anyone wishes to help then I accept it, but I think first I need to sort through what I can do easily myself and what I will truly need help with (probably the graphics substitution)

EDIT> Hmm, I think that might work for the main interface, but I'm running into the 8 character limit on many of the nouns and have to improvise. Should I be able to use a smaller font for those menu options? Also, now that I think about it, I wonder if "Act dumb" in place of "Chat" would work better...

The next problem with the adventure game(s) is that even though all of the selectable options and nouns are viewable in the editor, I can't find the game script anywhere.

On the plus side I was able to make room for more text in the Challenges screen

On the negative side, however, I learned the hard way the font used in Guadia Quest has no English characters whatsoever. I'm not sure if it is as simple (it never is) as substituting it for a font that has Roman characters or what but I can't even input English characters into that mini game as it is now.

 

[Popz]

For "Chat", maybe some sort of synonym like "gabble" would fit, what do you think ? And for the space retrictions, I believe abbreviations would work just fine ; many translated adventure games like Portopia or Tentei Club contain abbreviations for locations names.

And also I just reread Japan Arcade Mania and damn, you were that damn fantastic DDR player ; I remembered your picture standing on the dance pad, with your arm pointing at the camera ; I thought "damn, he looks SO cool". I'm amazed of seeing someone like you, translating a game like this. It's just mindblowing.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Thanks for the reply. I will do what I can to get this done an out. I can sit beside someone and chat them through the game but to translate it and modify the ROM takes exponentially longer.

Thanks for the Tsukkomu and Boketemiru explanation. I figured it was based on the Tsuukomi comedy routine but couldn't quite figure how to work that into menu options for an adventure game. I'm also limited to about 8 characters so even though they are both variants on what would be "Ask" or "Inquire" they are different in the methods/wording used.

Even though it wouldn't be a correct translation par se, I've been wondering if "Inquire" and "Chat" would work in the context of the game. "Inquire" can be the 'serious' inquiry about something and "Chat" can just be some water-cooler talk or on-the-fly comment made about something.

I'm not totally against mucking up the vocab a little bit considering the space restrictions and the fact that is just how it was done in the earlier days anyway. With Infocom games, even though they were text-only (and there was a lot of it) the commands tended to be very simple and short, with short words and abbreviations/codes used in place of longer words for brevity and speed.

Back to this game, I think if I can match up the tiles, I can recreate some of the graphics from the first game in this one. For example, recreating the infamous title screenshot from the other translation group at the beginning of the year. If the menu options are there too that would make things a lot easier.

I'm still looking for the opening star-wars scroll text, though.

And finally, I'm happy to have such positive support with this. I am very busy with work and home but I have been working through the translation of the text and I do have a few holidays coming up.

If anyone wishes to help then I accept it, but I think first I need to sort through what I can do easily myself and what I will truly need help with (probably the graphics substitution)

EDIT> Hmm, I think that might work for the main interface, but I'm running into the 8 character limit on many of the nouns and have to improvise. Should I be able to use a smaller font for those menu options? Also, now that I think about it, I wonder if "Act dumb" in place of "Chat" would work better...

The next problem with the adventure game(s) is that even though all of the selectable options and nouns are viewable in the editor, I can't find the game script anywhere.

On the plus side I was able to make room for more text in the Challenges screen

On the negative side, however, I learned the hard way the font used in Guadia Quest has no English characters whatsoever. I'm not sure if it is as simple (it never is) as substituting it for a font that has Roman characters or what but I can't even input English characters into that mini game as it is now.

Simply replacing some of the Japanese characters in the font with the English characters you need should work (or you could add them in addition to the Japanese characters but that might be trickier)

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

For "Chat", maybe some sort of synonym like "gabble" would fit, what do you think ? And for the space retrictions, I believe abbreviations would work just fine ; many translated adventure games like Portopia or Tentei Club contain abbreviations for locations names.

Hmm, "Gabber" ... "To talk fast or foolishly". Yeah, that is a pretty good fit; I'll try going with that. I was thinking about that today and wondered about Babble or Jabber but in the game what he is saying isn't unintelligible; it is just playing the fool about something (trying to get information about it). I was wondering about this further because in pretty much every adventure game I have ever seen/played from that era, there was always a "talk" and "ask" option (or similarly worded) so I was curious if the makers here wanted to recreate the experience or the authenticity. I think since it is all for fun they played with the formula a bit.

I still can't find the game dialogue for this or the RPG but I did find the menu options and anything you can select or interact with as well as key titles and objects/phrases. Hopefully I can build on this.

About Arcade Mania, ho ho ho...do you mean this? I wasn't sure on that photo, actually, but it does look a bit better than the b&w ones used in a few other pages. In the 100 Yen... film I look a bit pasty faced but at least with that the interviews were done right after a few sets or when on my way home from work around 11pm and I was dead tired as it was.

Simply replacing some of the Japanese characters in the font with the English characters you need should work (or you could add them in addition to the Japanese characters but that might be trickier)

Hmm, thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to do what I can first but I might have to do that with the RPG. However, right now I still can only find the item names and some other nouns (and the opening scroll).

So, I guess my goal before I think about any kind of Alpha level release is what I think I can do with what I have right now:

* Game Challenges and Descriptions <- Game Challenges are done; Descriptions are WIP
* Game Manuals <- Read them all, have yet to translate anything
* Game Shop Test Game Instruction Sheets <- Somewhat done on paper
* In-Game Magazines <- Started translation, not in the game yet
* Menu Options and Nouns for Detective Kacho games <- half done
* Daily Challenges <- Only just started

The action games don't need translation for the most part, but I have some other issues. Those are:

* Can't find story/dialogue for Guadia Quest or Detective Kacho games
* Can't find the dialogue between you and young Arino (makes up a fair portion of the game, actually)
* Changing Graphics
* The main game intro scroll
* Main interface menu options
* Voices (maybe not necessary?)

 

[Popz]

About Arcade Mania, ho ho ho...do you mean this? I wasn't sure on that photo, actually, but it does look a bit better than the b&w ones used in a few other pages.

Yes! Exactly this one. Very neat photo. Really liked it. I just saw the pitch for the 100 yen documentary and I'm going to buy it. Looks cool too!

* Voices (maybe not necessary?)

There is really no need on editing the voices effect. I think GCCX fan really care about hearing the real Arino screaming and producer Kan voice-over.

 

[windwakr]

You might be able to track down the files containing text that you're looking for using a new build of DeSmuME. They just added an awesome slot1 debugging feature that lets you see which files a game accesses in real time.

You're either going to have to build it yourself from the SVN or find a build somewhere. Once you have it, go to "Config -> Slot 1" and change it to "Retail DEBUG". Game file access will now show up in the console window.




EDIT: You can also test modified files without re-inserting into the ROM by going into the directory you chose when changing the Slot 1 to "Retail DEBUG" and creating a directory there with the name of the ROM, but minus the '.nds'. Then you can recreate the ROM's folder structure inside of there and throw any modified files into it. It'll load those instead of the ones in the ROM.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

You might be able to track down the files containing text that you're looking for using a new build of DeSmuME. They just added an awesome slot1 debugging feature that lets you see which files a game accesses in real time.

You're either going to have to build it yourself from the SVN or find a build somewhere. Once you have it, go to "Config -> Slot 1" and change it to "Retail DEBUG". Game file access will now show up in the console window.

EDIT: You can also test modified files without re-inserting into the ROM by going into the directory you chose when changing the Slot 1 to "Retail DEBUG" and creating a directory there with the name of the ROM, but minus the '.nds'. Then you can recreate the ROM's folder structure inside of there and throw any modified files into it. It'll load those instead of the ones in the ROM.

That is truly awesome, thanks! Okay, I'm plowing through the in-game manuals, challenge descriptions and magazines and that is taking a bit but I think that will really help me track down the missing scripts and dialogue. If I can get those and figure out how/where to swap the graphics with the original Game Center CX game for some of the shared titles and menu options, I'll be ecstatic (read: I will have something people can test/check)

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, status update.

I have finished the first pass (translation) of all the game challenges, their detailed descriptions and all the daily challenges and their descriptions. The in-game manuals are about half done and I have still yet to touch the game magazines.

The selectable nouns in the Detective Kacho games are mostly done but I haven't touched the script yet (still having trouble finding it all)

I found the text for the objects and items in Guadia Quest Saga but haven't touched them yet.

Also, I am still looking for the dialogs with young Arino but I think I might have it pinned down. After I finish with the other stuff available I can focus more on that.


Okay, big question for you. How can I go about getting testers and proofreaders for this when I have something ready to share? I would assume it is against this place's rules to post a rom image not to mention illegal.

 

[windwakr]

Okay, big question for you. How can I go about getting testers and proofreaders for this when I have something ready to share? I would assume it is against this place's rules to post a rom image not to mention illegal.

You would create a patch with something like xdelta:
http://xdelta.org/

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Thanks again! You're like my own personal Jesus Christ (tm). Okay, I tried making and applying a patch and it seemed to work so I jotted down the syntax I used to make it so I won't forget and I'll have that ready when I am ready to distribute an alpha version.

I noted in my last post that the translation of the challenges was first pass because I might want to change the wording on some of them. In Japanese, the challenges all start the same and is a bit long winded/redundant in spots at times but it read a bit stiff when I started doing that in English so I added a bit of variety to it.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, I am really busy trying to just get through all the magazines (Which is taking forever) but I don't want to leave everyone dangling so I'll give some samples to whet your appetites...or something.

Note that nothing is finalized yet in terms of translation and I think some of it sounds a bit funny, though translation issues aside the early game magazines in the 80s were a similar level of odd, come to think of it. Anyway, here is a sneak peek of what I've been doing anyway. It's not as easy to find time to work on this lately as I would like.

This is the first in-game magazine from cover to cover (that probably isn't a spoiler since you get it at the beginning of the game anyway). Of course, I am open to any constructive suggestions you may have.

Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

 

[Fishaman P]

I actually speedrun the original Retro Game Challenge a bit, and I've played the sequel up to the detective game multiple times.
Therefore, I can give feedback on how translations sound in the context of the game, and also if it feels out of style compared to the original.
Oh, and I know some Japanese too.

EDIT: The magazines are mostly good, except for a few things.

1) The missing periods, commas, etc. in some places. Obviously these aren't important for now.

2) This page sounds a little weird:

Spoiler

Try "The hot PC action game popular in America and Europe was ported to the Gamecon's rival - the ENTER-M2000! It's Pro-Japanese studio HARAKIRI's flagship system, but they are also looking into porting it to other systems!"

However, that would require fixing apostrophes.

3) The name puns in "Ask the Editors". These don't translate well into English, so use your imagination or ask us for ideas.

Also, in the links you posted, 10 and 11 are of the same page. Page 13 is missing as a result.

 

[Blebleman]

Holy crap, you're AaroninJapan, aren't you? I used to read your stuff all the time! How have you been?

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Hi, Fishaman

Thanks for taking a look at it. Yes, the part with the intro about the Kung Fu game seemed weird. In some cases I had more information than I could fit comfortably on a page in English and even taking bit parts was weird. The Q&A is hit and miss depending on the issue. There are some that can be conveyed in English all right but some seem a bit odd. However, back in the 80s, magazines used to print some questionably asinine questions and content so it is all a bit muddy anyway.

The punctuation is one thing I will do at the end. There are no single space quotes, apostrophes...colons (?) so contraction don't come off so well. I'll have to sit and think it through.

For the rest of the content, I'll plow through it all and let you all take a look at it.

Again, I don't know if this is against the norm but I am totally fine with sharing interim and unfinished content to get ideas and feedback because it makes for a better result in the end. In some cases I can steer content in a new direction easier that way anyway before I get to a more finalized state.

Oops, on that screenshot gaff. I'll work on that. That's what I get for starting this past midnight.


Blebleman > Yep, that would be me. It's like a warm fuzzy to me to have people recognize me by my name or site address. And yes, I'm still here, probably for the long haul. I'm busy these days being married, and all, buying a house, and having two kids but somehow I still pull everything together. Yes, I still do DDR and books and stuff though in the media I am more known for my pieces on arcades, which is fine; those are more interesting for the average Joe to learn about anyway.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Okay, question time!

1. *snip* I think I answered my own question. It was about importing and exporting graphics with crystaltile and I think it is going to work. When I have some graphics swapped with something that isn't just any old graphic just for testing purposes I'll post results. Probably tomorrow unless I get tied up.

2 I tried finding the scripts and dialogue for the adventure games, RPG and chats with younger Arino but still, no luck. I read through the romhacking guide on fonts and mapping tables but even though there are a few fonts used, I wasn't able to find what I was looking for even after trying different tables. Does anyone have any suggestions? The adventures and RPG (to a lesser degree) are the real stumbling blocks for non Japanese speakers to get through and I really want to get cracking at it. There may very well be some silly small detail I'm overlooking but it is a bit frustrating. Fortunately I still have other material I can work on in the meantime.

3. I have been unable to get a hold of the original translation team but did they have any of their old work out for release? It seems like a wasted effort to have to do it all again. I don't mind but it would speed things up if they already had a bunch of the work done.

 

[windwakr]

I think the young Arino dialogue may be encoded into the 'room_xx_xx.lbs' files in the 'room' folder somehow. If you look at the files, you can see player choosable responses(in 'room_00_01.lbs', you can find all player responses during the first conversation with young Arino, like 'ゲームがちいさい！') plainly in SJIS encoding, but the actual dialogue may be encoded in some other format.



EDIT: The young Arino dialogue is definitely in those '.lbs' files, but I don't have a clue about how it's encoded in them.

 

[Aaron Chmielowiec]

Yeah, that is as far as I got on the dialogue. I recognized the pairs of choices but couldn't for the life of me find the dialogue and question leading up to that choice.

Would it make sense to look for a phrase with a character used many times close by? (An example would be a tongue twister, though I don't think any of those are in the game; maybe there are some searchable pattern somewhere though) at this point it is more of a mathematical analysis but if I could just find one recognizable word I could build a mapping table from there if I had to.