Hardware Chargeing Switch with a powerbank

[sarkwalvein]

I don't really know what you are trying to say, you lost me.
You wouldn't use a LM317 or another linear power regulator when power consumption was a problem.
Linear regulator regulate the output by dropping the excess voltage as pure heat power dissipation. They just waste energy.
You would sure use a switching based up-converter in this case, if you were to use anything, not a linear regulator that can only drop down voltage.

I am not very sure what are you trying to tell with the numbers.

What I am going at is that if you have 1W on the input, you will have 1W on the output (minus loss due to inefficiency)
At the output it will be near to 1W for switching, but way below for linear.

Anyway, and again, the point of the thing was that if you have "mAh" it is relevant to know to what "V" this mAh refers, in order to know the energy storage, and in the end how long the thing will last.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

I don't really know what you are trying to say, you lost me.
You wouldn't use a LM317 or another linear power regulator when power consumption was a problem.
Linear regulator regulate the output by dropping the excess voltage as pure heat power dissipation. They just waste energy.
You would sure use a switching based up-converter in this case, if you were to use anything, not a linear regulator that can only drop down voltage.

I am not very sure what are you trying to tell with the numbers.

What I am going at is that if you have 1W on the input, you will have 1W on the output (minus loss due to inefficiency)
At the output it will be near to 1W for switching, but way below for linear.

Anyway, and again, the point of the thing was that if you have "mAh" it is relevant to know to what "V" this mAh refers, in order to know the energy storage, and in the end how long the thing will last.

You can use an LM117 to test the capacity of a battery, it's a current regulator which is what you want to use. Typically 500mA to 1A load.

Like i said knowing the voltage for mAh is irrelevant.

5 volts @ 5 watts draws 1 amp.
2.5 volts @ 2.5 watts draws 1 amp.

It's the "current" that you need to know not voltage.

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Of course you have to know the voltage as a "reference" in order to calculate the current draw. If that's what you are saying.

 

[sarkwalvein]

You can use an LM117 to test the capacity of a battery, it's a current regulator which is what you want to use. Typically 500mA to 1A load.

Like i said knowing the voltage for mAh is irrelevant.

5 volts @ 5 watts draws 1 amp.
2.5 volts @ 2.5 watts draws 1 amp.

It's the "current" that you need to know not voltage.

Oh, now I get what you were talking about.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the hypothetical "upconverter" to make 3.7V go to 5V inside the powerpack.
Totally missed you were talking about testing the capacity of the battery.

That said, what do you mean the voltage is not important?
You yourself state 1A, but 5V = 5W. 1A, but 2.5V = 2.5W.
So the power depended on the voltage (and the energy also).
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Rememeber that what I was talking about is something like this:
If you have 1Ah, at 5V, you will end up having 5Wh of energy. (battery1)
If you have 1Ah, at 2.5V, you will end up having 2.5Wh of energy. (battery2)

Battery 1 and 2 are both rated at 1Ah (misleading)

Then, if you have a light bulb that works at 10V, and dissipates 1W, if you upconvert the batteries output to 10V and turn on the light you will have this results:

Battery 1: the light goes on for 5h
Battery 2: the light goes on for 2.5h

But both of them were rated at "1Ah"! (misleading)

Of course you have to know the voltage as a "reference" in order to calculate the current draw. If that's what you are saying.

Yes, that is what I am saying.
It is misleading if they sell you a 5V powerbank, and let you know the mAh for the internal battery at the unknown battery voltage.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Anyway it doesn't matter, they will just look on the device and what's printed on it to determine the mAh or Wh so I guess that's all you need to be worries about if taking it on a plane. Maybe buy one with no markings hehe.

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But both of them were rated at "1Ah"! (misleading)

Although I prefer the Wh rating more than mAh, it's not "misleading". Those batteries can provide voltage from 5v to 20v. You just need to be diligent in knowing what you are plugging into them, and do some simple math.

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It does seem according to that that it's safe for them to go down to 2.5V, like I thought. The spec sheets for my batteries also don't mention anything about a voltage at when it's fully discharged, only the discharge cutoff voltage at 2.5V, and 2.5V is also the cutoff voltage used in all their discharge tests. I vape, and one of the e-cigs I had showed the voltage on the display, and it would cut off at 3.2V. My charger also shows the current voltage. It definitely did not jump back up to 3.3V or higher after disuse.
I know of other devices that cut off at 3.1V. Any lower than that is probably pointless though as there's not much juice left by that point.

Most my devices cut of between 3.3v and 3.2v depending on which battery I use and how much wattage i'm drawing, my older cells cut off at 3.4v (time to replace them).

 

[FancyTorben]

There is a way to charge your switch with a basic powerbank (2A,5V) while playing:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-speed-up-charging-the-switch-with-a-powerbank.466472/

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Yes, that is what I am saying.
It is misleading if they sell you a 5V powerbank, and let you know the mAh for the internal battery at the unknown battery voltage.

But it's not 5v, it's 5v max. You can run a 1 volt circuit off a 5v USB. I guess my whole point is that the rating is based on current, to keep things simple use 1 amp. From there you need to do some math, I can tell you how long something should last no matter what the voltage is, based on that 1 amp current.

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There is a way to charge your switch with a basic powerbank (2A,5V) while playing:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-speed-up-charging-the-switch-with-a-powerbank.466472/

You are still physically limited to 12watts, which is 3 watts more than the unit needs just to run. It will still take forever to charge.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Anyway it doesn't matter, they will just look on the device and what's printed on it to determine the mAh or Wh so I guess that's all you need to be worries about if taking it on a plane. Maybe buy one with no markings hehe.

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Although I prefer the Wh rating more than mAh, it's not "misleading". Those batteries can provide voltage from 5v to 20v. You just need to be diligent in knowing what you are plugging into them, and do some simple math.

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Most my devices cut of between 3.3v and 3.2v depending on which battery I use and how much wattage i'm drawing, my older cells cut off at 3.4v (time to replace them).

Hey, I have the same charger!
Only I stopped using it after reading about issues where certain units, or certain batches of units could overcharge the batteries due to a faulty chip, and from what Efest said it seemed to be a widespread issue, I'm unsure if my unit is affected by this or not, it hasn't overcharged batteries yet but that doesn't mean it won't in the future.
Is that a Sony VTC battery I spot? Looks to be about the right color, but then again I guess there are other batteries with that color.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

@sarkwalvein I really think we are arguing the same principle just from different views, if that makes any sense.

If they rated the batter for 10000mAh @ 3.7volts then they obviously didn't use a current test of 1 amp.

Hey, I have the same charger!
Only I stopped using it after reading about issues where certain units, or certain batches of units could overcharge the batteries due to a faulty chip, and from what Efest said it seemed to be a widespread issue, I'm unsure if my unit is affected by this or not, it hasn't overcharged batteries yet but that doesn't mean it won't in the future.
Is that a Sony VTC battery I spot? Looks to be about the right color, but then again I guess there are other batteries with that color.

VTC4 since VTC5 haven't been made in years, and are all fakes now.

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@sarkwalvein You are right I guess in saying that it is misleading. I just remembered that the auto industry uses a standard 20hr/10hr rating. Here is a good read.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/what-does-20-amp-hr-rate-mean-.html

 

[The Real Jdbye]

@sarkwalvein I really think we are arguing the same principle just from different views, if that makes any sense.

If they rated the batter for 10000mAh @ 3.7volts then they obviously didn't use a current test of 1 amp.

VTC4 since VTC5 haven't been made in years, and are all fakes now.

I bought two VTC5 right before they went out of production. People say they are being manufactured again now under a different brand, there was an explanation as to why it's been rebranded but I don't remember why. I still don't trust them though with all the talk of fakes, so I switched to other brands, and have been using LG HE4, Samsung 25r and more recently LG HG2. LG HG2 seems to be the best one to go for these days, unless there's something even newer and better that I haven't heard of yet.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

hehehe

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I bought two VTC5 right before they went out of production. People say they are being manufactured again now under a different brand, there was an explanation as to why it's been rebranded but I don't remember why. I still don't trust them though with all the talk of fakes, so I switched to other brands, and have been using LG HE4, Samsung 25r and more recently LG HG2. LG HG2 seems to be the best one to go for these days, unless there's something even newer and better that I haven't heard of yet.

Not sure, I don't vape anymore, I only used it to quit smoking. Been smoke free for 4 years, quit vaping a year ago.

 

[FancyTorben]

There is a way to charge your switch with a basic powerbank (2A,5V) while playing:

http://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-speed-up-charging-the-switch-with-a-powerbank.466472/

But it's not 5v, it's 5v max. You can run a 1 volt circuit off a 5v USB. I guess my whole point is that the rating is based on current, to keep things simple use 1 amp. From there you need to do some math, I can tell you how long something should last no matter what the voltage is, based on that 1 amp current.

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You are still physically limited to 12watts, which is 3 watts more than the unit needs just to run. It will still take forever to charge.

Yes you are right. Charging the switch is a pain in the a** in general. I'm using this method just to maintain the battery level when im travelling for more than 2 hours. Without that "trick" there's the possiblity that the switch will run out of battery even when plugged in while playing (2A/5V). So I'm just glad that I didn't have to purchase a better powerbank just to be able to play longer on the go.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

hehehe

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Not sure, I don't vape anymore, I only used it to quit smoking. Been smoke free for 4 years, quit vaping a year ago.

What do you use the batteries for then? Powerbanks? Flashlights? Lasers?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Yes you are right. Charging the switch is a pain in the a** in general. I'm using this method just to maintain the battery level when im travelling for more than 2 hours. Without that "trick" there's the possiblity that the switch will run out of battery even when plugged in while playing (2A/5V). So I'm just glad that I didn't have to purchase a better powerbank just to be able to play longer on the go.

USB 3 PD is a new standard for wattage hungry devices, give it 6 months or a year and we will be seeing more and more devices that give and take using higher voltage.

I myself use 48volts (8 x L16) for my battery backup because the higher voltage keeps the amperage down and is more efficient.

Similar to this:

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What do you use the batteries for then? Powerbanks? Flashlights? Lasers?

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00X9JV0KI

And some small projects I'm working on but if I told you I would have to kill you....
(Patent Pending)

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Apparently Razor is making a nice one but I don't think it's out yet...

https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-accessories/razer-power-bank

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Or if you can find one of these!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K6S29FE

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@YoshiMoshi @Bedel

Again though, I think your best bet is this one:

https://www.ravpower.com/dp/B0156HCJQO

It is 75Wh @ 3.7v or 100.5Wh at 5v, either way they should allow it and it supports 15v@2a which is what the Nintendo adapter itself supports.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

So can u guys please point to a power bank that is as close as possible to 100 Wh or under that I can use to charge the switch on a plane while playing. I want to charge as fast as possible and hope to spend less than 100 dollars. If lithium ion batteries are used this would be 100/3.7 = 27027.027 mAh thay i can buy online?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

So can u guys please point to a power bank that is as close as possible to 100 Wh or under that I can use to charge the switch on a plane while playing. I want to charge as fast as possible and hope to spend less than 100 dollars. If lithium ion batteries are used this would be 100/3.7 = 27027.027 mAh thay i can buy online?

Look up, I just did...

@YoshiMoshi @Bedel

Again though, I think your best bet is this one:

https://www.ravpower.com/dp/B0156HCJQO

It is 75Wh @ 3.7v or 100.5Wh at 5v, either way they should allow it and it supports 15v@2a which is what the Nintendo adapter itself supports.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

So can u guys please point to a power bank that is as close as possible to 100 Wh or under that I can use to charge the switch on a plane while playing. I want to charge as fast as possible and hope to spend less than 100 dollars. If lithium ion batteries are used this would be 100/3.7 = 27027.027 mAh thay i can buy online?

This is pretty much your only option for fast charging.
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Recharged/dp/B01LRQDAEI
It will charge at 15V@2A, the maximum the Switch will accept, so it should charge just as fast as the wall charger.
It seems to be the only powerbank that supports USB-PD as of right now, which is what the Switch needs to charge faster.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

This is pretty much your only option for fast charging.
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-RAVPower-26800mAh-Recharged/dp/B01LRQDAEI
It will charge at 15V@2A, the maximum the Switch will accept, so it should charge just as fast as the wall charger.

That one is too much, they will see the 26800mAh on the device and not let it through.

This one also provides 15v2a and it's only 20100mAh

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0156HCJQO

 

[The Real Jdbye]

That one is too much, they will see the 26800mAh on the device and not let it through.

This one also provides 15v2a and it's only 20100mAh

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0156HCJQO

That one doesn't support USB-PD, which is what the Switch uses. It uses iSmart instead, which the Switch likely doesn't support, meaning it will be limited to 5V@2A.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

That one doesn't support USB-PD, which is what the Switch uses. It uses iSmart instead, which the Switch likely doesn't support, meaning it will be limited to 5V@2A.

What you are looking for is the USB Type-C output.

iSmart USB Output: (DC 5V/3.4A Total, Each 2.4A Max)
Type-C Output: (DC 5V/3A, 9V/2A, 15V/2A, 20V/1.5A)

 

[The Real Jdbye]

What you are looking for is the USB Type-C output.

iSmart USB Output: (DC 5V/3.4A Total, Each 2.4A Max)
Type-C Output: (DC 5V/3A, 9V/2A, 15V/2A, 20V/1.5A)

Look up iSmart. It's the technology that powerbank uses to regulate the voltage according to the device's demands.
iSmart is a nonstandard protocol, just like Qualcomm's Quick Charge and Samsung's Adaptive Fast Charging. It's not part of the USB Type-C spec.
If the device in question (in this case the Switch) doesn't support that protocol, it won't be able to negotiate a higher voltage. The powerbank can't magically know what voltage to supply the Switch with if it's not told what voltages it supports, so it will fall back to 5V, as providing higher voltages to devices that don't specifically request it will probably result in a lot of fried devices and a class action lawsuit.
You can see in the comparison further down on the product page that the only one of their powerbanks that lists USB-PD as a feature is the 26800mAh one: "iSmart 2.0 Two USB output + 30W PD Type-C Port" whereas on the 20100mAh one it does list Type-C but no mention of USB-PD, only iSmart.
The Switch as far as I know only supports USB-PD for power negotiation, that's what people have used with success as far as 3rd party chargers go. Not sure whether anyone has tried an iSmart charger with it but I wouldn't count on it supporting that protocol, just like it probably doesn't support Qualcomm's protocol, and most certainly won't support Samsung's. This is actually the first time I've heard of iSmart so I had to look it up myself. That tells me that it probably doesn't have widespread support.

There will be more USB-PD powerbanks in time, but for now it seems that the 26800mAh one is the only one that supports it, as I've had no luck finding others.
Only recently has USB-PD started to be implemented in devices, so there has been no need for a USB-PD powerbank, as all of the devices that supported higher charging voltages used proprietary/nonstandard protocols.