Are Next Gen Graphics Really Needed on Next Gen Hardware?

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graphics matter cause

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Xenoblade-Chronicles-X_2015_02-07-15_012.jpg


like i want to like you xenoblade x but wtf is up with those faces
 

Foxi4

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Glad that some people are taking this thread about GRAPHICS seriously. Seriously, this thread wasn't made to be a OUYA bashing thread and if you don't like the OUYA, don't fucking play it. No need to bash those who do. The conversation isn't about which piece of plastic is better it IS about how to better utilize hardware and what might be possible if people were not always focused on graphics but used the extra hardware to make bigger games.
But they're already doing that, they've always been doing that. We're making huge strides in both the audio-visual presentation and the mechanics of games with each passing generation and graphics are a big part of that progress. You can't have complexity without the specs to power it, everything always goes back to the silicon.
 

sarkwalvein

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graphics matter cause
...

Xenoblade-Chronicles-X_2015_02-07-15_012.jpg


like i want to like you xenoblade x but wtf is up with those faces

I find many similarities between the art style of those faces (particularly the on I left in the quote) and the company previous work on Xenosaga.
So... It looks like an intentional... art decision.
I find them very doll-like, but it doesn't bother me.
 

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I find many similarities between the art style of those faces (particularly the on I left in the quote) and the company previous work on Xenosaga. So... It looks like an intentional... art decision. I find them very doll-like, but it doesn't bother me.
Indeed. A very poor artistic direction, but a direction nonetheless. To be fair, I'll take this over the misshapen heads of Toriyama's Dragon Ball or the awful One Piece style, but it's still dangerously close to Uncanny Valley.

Very unflattering screenshots by the way, those textures look soooo last gen. At least the environments and the character models look alright, shame that they stuck that pixelated wallpaper all over them.
 
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Glad that some people are taking this thread about GRAPHICS seriously. Seriously, this thread wasn't made to be a OUYA bashing thread and if you don't like the OUYA, don't fucking play it. No need to bash those who do. The conversation isn't about which piece of plastic is better it IS about how to better utilize hardware and what might be possible if people were not always focused on graphics but used the extra hardware to make bigger games.

I don't want to add to the fuel here, but when I said things like seamless loading already being on last gen, I wasn't talking about the ouya. I'm not as proficient as to the specs of that console vs the needed specs for what you want (I quote from the OP: "For once, I would love to see a space exploration game where you travel through space and get to have massive worlds to explore in vein of Xenoblade X.")...but it seriously doubt it can do something like that aside scaling down graphics to the area of Faster Than Light.
 

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Indeed. A very poor artistic direction, but a direction nonetheless. To be fair, I'll take this over the misshapen heads of Toriyama's Dragon Ball or the awful One Piece style, but it's still dangerously close to Uncanny Valley.
Ehhhhhh..... I'd still say they're a long way from reaching uncanny valley level, at least in XCX. The hardware and game engine aren't quite there. I've seen some amazing renders that are well into uncanny valley, but games still have a long way to go. Plenty of room for improvement... and that's why there will still be at least 3 more console gens to go.
 

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Ehhhhhh..... I'd still say they're a long way from reaching uncanny valley level, at least in XCX. The hardware and game engine aren't quite there. I've seen some amazing renders that are well into uncanny valley, but games still have a long way to go. Plenty of room for improvement... and that's why there will still be at least 3 more console gens to go.
I meant Uncanny Valley as a derogatory term, just so we're clear. :P
I don't want to add to the fuel here, but when I said things like seamless loading already being on last gen, I wasn't talking about the ouya. I'm not as proficient as to the specs of that console vs the needed specs for what you want (I quote from the OP: "For once, I would love to see a space exploration game where you travel through space and get to have massive worlds to explore in vein of Xenoblade X.")...but it seriously doubt it can do something like that aside scaling down graphics to the area of Faster Than Light.
Technically speaking level streaming has been around since the original Unreal. It wasn't very seamless at that time and games still stuttered every now and then to load chunks, but that's where level streaming made its first steps. Then Half-Life came along and used a similar approach towards levels, and that's a rather old game as well. For all intents and purposes the OUYA has enough horsepower to stream levels just fine, it's a matter of implementation, not horsepower.
 
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LightyKD

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I don't want to add to the fuel here, but when I said things like seamless loading already being on last gen, I wasn't talking about the ouya. I'm not as proficient as to the specs of that console vs the needed specs for what you want (I quote from the OP: "For once, I would love to see a space exploration game where you travel through space and get to have massive worlds to explore in vein of Xenoblade X.")...but it seriously doubt it can do something like that aside scaling down graphics to the area of Faster Than Light.


You DO know that the OUYA isnt my ONLY game console, right?
 

sarkwalvein

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Very unflattering screenshots by the way, those textures look soooo last gen. At least the environments and the character models look alright, shame that they stuck that pixelated wallpaper all over them.

LOL, sad but true.
Textures on the doll/robot look very low res, and I find annoying the texture is so poor I can't read the text on Lynlee's clothes.
Meh, perhaps they put more texture RAM on the NX. :unsure:
 

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LOL, sad but true.
Textures on the doll/robot look very low res, and I find annoying the texture is so poor I can't read the text on Lynlee's clothes.
Meh, perhaps they put more texture RAM on the NX. :unsure:
The NX is not replacing the Wii U though, it's not Nintendo's next gen, it's supposed to be sold alongside the 3DS and the Wii U.
 

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graphics matter cause

gdb20wp4pjdeugvx6okz.jpg


vgx9rdosgcprxy9cp6sx.jpg


Xenoblade-Chronicles-X_2015_02-07-15_012.jpg


like i want to like you xenoblade x but wtf is up with those faces


My big issue with the faces are less about the polygons and more about the fact that these characters are supposed to be American yet they look VERY anime. I've seen Amine with US characters done right and Xenoblade doesn't fit the bill.
 

sarkwalvein

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My big issue with the faces are less about the polygons and more about the fact that these characters are supposed to be American yet they look VERY anime. I've seen Amine with US characters done right and Xenoblade doesn't fit the bill.

Well, regarding that the only cues for "American" in typical anime style are big nose, tall, blue eyes and normally blonde (stereotypical as fuck from a Japanese PoV).
I don't really remember anime with specific good depiction of Americans... Perhaps Cowboy Bebop? Or Monster? (but that would be Germans, not Americans)
Ah... I might be just forgetful.
 

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I thought the same long time ago, back when I just started HS.

I really liked Doom, and my idea was that they should've focused on making thousands of levels in one disk (now that was possible) rather then make a few with the best hardware. Something that, if you really think about it, it's not the best idea ever.
First, there's the filler factor: the more time you spend playing a game, the more you are prone to suffer from filler. If I had a game with 50 episodes of Doom and I am playing the 36th there is very little left to try out and eventually I will be dealing with 12 different keys of the same maze level.
Then, there is the time factor: It still takes a lot of it to come up with 500 levels of Doom and you can't afford to make the game look the same after a few. You need more ideas, therefore more time, for a level pack that almost no one will ever play. You could build an algorithm, but they are as fun to play as Sudoku.
I have this game called "Alphabounce" for the DSi. It was an interesting concept because it had a very high number of levels (something like thousands). However, the novelty got old pretty fast due to the fact that the levels were incredibly boring and offered no variety after a few of them. That, and the loading times that the algorithm needed in order to make them.

People always talk how the overworld of Wind Waker was. To me, it was boring and frustrating.
 

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Well, regarding that the only cues for "American" in typical anime style are big nose, tall, blue eyes and normally blonde (stereotypical as fuck from a Japanese PoV). I don't really remember anime with specific good depiction of Americans... Perhaps Cowboy Bebop? Or Monster? (but that would be Germans, not Americans) Ah... I might be just forgetful.
The quality of anime characters having "large eyes" is a western trait to begin with. They're big in order to be emotive, it's a characteristic borrowed directly from western animation. As you've probably noticed, asians typically have narrow, slanted, smaller eyes, not large anime-like ones. Anime characters are not based on asian physiology, they're based on western physiology.
 
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Indeed. A very poor artistic direction, but a direction nonetheless. To be fair, I'll take this over the misshapen heads of Toriyama's Dragon Ball or the awful One Piece style, but it's still dangerously close to Uncanny Valley.

Very unflattering screenshots by the way, those textures look soooo last gen. At least the environments and the character models look alright, shame that they stuck that pixelated wallpaper all over them.

Well, Wii U technically IS last gen in terms of processing/graphical power... Somewhat more modern shaders and more RAM is all it has over the PS3/XBOX360...
 

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Well, Wii U technically IS last gen in terms of processing/graphical power... Somewhat more modern shaders and more RAM is all it has over the PS3/XBOX360...
Generations refer to time frames, not specs. For all intents and purposes the Wii U is current gen, Nintendo's last gen console was the Wii. I don't remember anyone calling the Wii previous gen just because it was only a tad stronger than an Xbox.
 
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sarkwalvein

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The quality of anime characters having "large eyes" is a western trait to begin with. They're big in order to be emotive, it's a characteristic borrowed directly from western animation. As you've probably noticed, asians typically have narrow, slanted, smaller eyes, not large anime-like ones. Anime characters are not based on asian physiology, they're based on western physiology.
Yep, kind of, or more like in a non-existent cartoonish physiology that is definitively not Asian.
Anyway I don't know what is an "American" expected to look like in an Anime, the only thing I know is they usually use those cues in anime and manga for implying western (big nose, blue eyes, tall, sometimes blonde, and... loud... very loud - I forgot about that part of the stereotype)
 

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Generations refer to time frames, not specs. For all intents and purposes the Wii U is current gen, Nintendo's last gen console was the Wii. I don't remember anyone calling the Wii previous gen just because it was only a tad stronger than an Xbox.

Yeah, but you commented on the textures of the game, and textures are all about the gpu power of a console... The time frame is irrelevant here, Wii U is about as powerful as the last gen consoles from the competition, so of course its games will look approx. the same...
 

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Yep, kind of, or more like in a non-existent cartoonish physiology that is definitively not Asian. Anyway I don't know what is an "American" expected to look like in an Anime, the only thing I know is they usually use those cues in anime and manga for implying western (big nose, blue eyes, tall, sometimes blonde, and... loud... very loud - I forgot about that part of the stereotype)
The Japanese society lives in isolation on their little island, they tend to be unintentionally racist at times, but usually they don't depict a whole lot of physiological differences between westerners and asians (unless they're black in which case they go nuts and pull out the big 'ol racist booklet). :P
Yeah, but you commented on the textures of the game, and textures are all about the gpu power of a console... The time frame is irrelevant here, Wii U is about as powerful as the last gen consoles from the competition, so of course its games will look approx. the same...
I expect more from the Wii U seeing that it has four times the RAM and a substantially stronger GPU and CPU. It's not a whole lot stronger than last gen consoles, but it is stronger nonetheless. ;)
 
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