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US Government to shut down in less than an hour, would be first single-party shutdown ever

Tigran

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It varies from place to place, employee to employee. Last time this happened everyone got paid eventually i think. But that doesn't mean it'll happen this time.

Well last time it only lasted a day. If that happens this time, probably the same, but if it goes on longer... may be a much bigger issue.
 

dimmidice

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because nothing good will ever come from creating second class citizens.
Yup, it's a slippery slope to slavery tbh. First it's 3 years until they get citizenship. Then that gets lengthened to 4, then 5. Then it's you get a parking ticket it's another year etc etc. Worst case scenario of course.
 

HamBone41801

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Yup, it's a slippery slope to slavery tbh. First it's 3 years until they get citizenship. Then that gets lengthened to 4, then 5. Then it's you get a parking ticket it's another year etc etc. Worst case scenario of course.
and then there are the "Real citizens only" signs on bathrooms and businesses.
 

Tigran

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and then there are the "Real citizens only" signs on bathrooms and businesses.

Yeah, I know it would need serious -serious- work to stop a second class citizen ship. I just think a way to let them in easily and documented so that if something happened, *and that could mean a LOT of things, not just criminal offenses* they could be found.
 

Xzi

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I totally get that you guys want to say "oh we're being mean (boohoo) that makes me sad" but at the end of the day, we're not talking about Bill Gate type immigrants that are being kicked out, we're talking about that one friend that's always borrowing money and says "yeah i'll pay you back" and then when they get paid they go and buy themselves a PS4 or an Xbox, but the moment you come up to them and say "hey buddy can I please have my 5 dollars back" they pretty much shun you and say "you said you were my friend, you said you were a good person" and make themselves the martyr and you the executioner by extension.
The issue is not that black and white, it's not only mooches and criminals that get deported. If the process was that thorough and people who do contribute were being left alone, there wouldn't need to be any changes to the system. Obviously that's not the case, though.

A bit more on-topic: Schumer says negotiating with Trump is like "negotiating with Jell-O." They had a deal to extend funding for four to five days while further negotiations were discussed, higher military spending and even the border wall were on the table. Then Trump rejected that deal a few hours later. So it is as bad as we feared:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/369929-schumer-working-with-trump-like-negotiating-with-jello
 
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Vahnyyz

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The issue is not that black and white, it's not only mooches and criminals that get deported. If the process was that thorough and people who do contribute were being left alone, there wouldn't need to be any changes to the system. Obviously that's not the case, though.

you're right, but again it's YOUR house, so what do you do? do you throw the dice and accept whatever happens to your kids, the consequences be damned? With regards to deportation the current system isn't "Banning" anyone (unless they are officially like axe murderes and unibombers and stuff like that) from coming into the country. But when you have a problem in your house you clean it up and fix it. I am not condoning my next comment but think of this as an "alternative"; gun to YOUR head, would you want uncle sam to say "become a good citizen or else" and he already has the gun cocked with his finger already pressing on the trigger? I don't want that for you or anyone else. Sometimes the good has to go with the bad, the whey with the chaff and that's OK!! Figurative or literal the "wall" is to slow things down and give us a chance to vet the people coming in. We're not only looking to make citizens the next bill gate. I love my Mother in law (because I have to) but she's no Bill Gates. She literally went through 3rd grade schooling and has difficulties reading even Spanish BUT to become an American Citizen she sat down with me and her daughters and wanted to learn. THESE are the people we want to come into our country. The ones that will STRIVE to become better than where they came from. We're not all milk and honey in the US, but at least here if you work hard you can play hard too.
 
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Xzi

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you're right, but again it's YOUR house, so what do you do? do you throw the dice and accept whatever happens to your kids, the consequences be damned? With regards to deportation the current system isn't "Banning" anyone (unless they are officially like axe murderes and unibombers and stuff like that) from coming into the country. But when you have a problem in your house you clean it up and fix it. I am not condoning my next comment but think of this as an "alternative"; gun to YOUR head, would you want uncle sam to say "become a good citizen or else" and he already has the gun cocked with his finger already pressing on the trigger? I don't want that for you or anyone else. Sometimes the good has to go with the bad, the whey with the chaff and that's OK!! Figurative or literal the "wall" is to slow things down and give us a chance to vet the people coming in. We're not only looking to make citizens the next bill gate. I love my Mother in law (because I have to) but she's no Bill Gates. She literally went through 3rd grade schooling and has difficulties reading even Spanish BUT to become an American Citizen she sat down with me and her daughters and wanted to learn. THESE are the people we want to come into our country. The ones that will STRIVE to become better than where they came from. We're not all milk and honey in the US, but at least here if you work hard you can play hard too.
At least I can agree with some of this. I don't mind a bit more funding for border security, but a physical wall is long past outdated and a waste of taxpayer money. It would be crumbling within years anyway, and passing funding to keep it maintained would be even more difficult than getting the funding to build it in the first place.

Vetting for people coming from overseas is already very thorough and a very long process. That doesn't need to be changed, but the path to citizenship does, even more so for those that enter the country legally.
 
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Vahnyyz

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The issue is not that black and white, it's not only mooches and criminals that get deported. If the process was that thorough and people who do contribute were being left alone, there wouldn't need to be any changes to the system. Obviously that's not the case, though.

A bit more on-topic: Schumer says negotiating with Trump is like "negotiating with Jell-O." They had a deal to extend funding for four to five days while further negotiations were discussed, higher military spending and even the border wall were on the table. Then Trump rejected that deal a few hours later. So it is as bad as we feared:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/369929-schumer-working-with-trump-like-negotiating-with-jello


Now i'd like to respond to your edit, Trump is OUR president (that's assuming you're american) and whether we LIKE IT OR NOT he is going to be our president. That's the short and the end of it. We don't have to like it, we don't have to "believe" it because it's fact. Personally the guy is full of foolishness, and much like most of his other businesses (that are doing well) they are "set it and forget it" for him. He talks about "his" successes because it has his name on it, but it's much like a child filling in a color by numbers. Yeah they followed the color rules and did exactly what they were told to do, but that doesn't make them the next Van Gogh. (sp?) I'm glad he's the president because he's got some things that I'm looking forward to and at this point we do have a really nice upcurve on the economy side. As far as war with Russia and North Korea I am worried, but if we have to be PC just so people "like us" I'd rather be the stick than the carrot, because you like the carrot but you respect the stick one way or the other.
 
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Xzi

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Now i'd like to respond to your edit, Trump is OUR president (that's assuming you're american) and whether we LIKE IT OR NOT he is going to be our president. That's the short and the end of it. We don't have to like it, we don't have to "believe" it because it's fact. Personally the guy is full of foolishness, and much like most of his other businesses (that are doing well) they are "set it and forget it" for him. He talks about "his" successes because it has his name on it, but it's much like a child filling in a color by numbers. Yeah they followed the color rules and did exactly what they were told to do, but that doesn't make them the next Van Gogh. (sp?) I'm glad he's the president because he's got some things that I'm looking forward to and at this point we do have a really nice upcurve on the economy side. As far as war with Russia and North Korea I am worried, but if we have to be PC just so people "like us" I'd rather be the stick than the carrot, because you like the carrot but you respect the stick one way or the other.
Well, I'm not arguing about the fact that he is president here, I'm just pointing out how bad a job he's doing when it comes to the duties of president. Which is not surprising, of course, Trump comes from the world of real estate and reality TV, neither of which prepared him to govern or legislate. For all his bluster about what a great "deal maker" he is, Trump can't even seem to remember or stick to a deal he made three hours prior.

Government is currently shut down, and while the president typically takes the bulk of the blame for that, this time it's appropriate because this is mostly his fault.
 

kuwanger

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if we considered the USA a home instead of a country and in this critical thinking exercise we're going to say its YOUR home. Do you want someone who is going to expect you to pay THEIR rent, THEIR food, THEIR clothing, THEIR electricity usage and are you supposed to be happy about for the rest of your life when you have mouths to feed not just your own

The problem is, that's a horrible analogy. One, the US isn't a home. Two, even if it were a home, it's not "my" home. It's "our" home. Three, even if it were my home, it's not the equivalent of paying for their rent, food, clothing, etc. So, if you're willing to ignore all that, yes, your analogy works.

but at the end of the day, we're not talking about Bill Gate type immigrants that are being kicked out

Bill Gates after he has money, right? I wonder how he got so much money. Could be because he (1) lived in America, (2) had enough connections to be in the right place to make billions, and (3) lacked the ethics to engage in responsible business practices instead of anti-competitive ones? Funny thing is, we'd have to reject Bill Gates as a citizen because he has a criminal record.

we're talking about that one friend that's always borrowing money and says "yeah i'll pay you back" and then when they get paid they go and buy themselves a PS4 or an Xbox, but the moment you come up to them and say "hey buddy can I please have my 5 dollars back" they pretty much shun you and say "you said you were my friend, you said you were a good person" and make themselves the martyr and you the executioner by extension.

Dude, you really need better friends. I don't have friends like that. If i did, yes, I'd stop being their friend.

The real problem I have for most immigration debates is how people are so quick to claim that immigrants specifically do bad things, ignoring the 1 million+ Americans in jail. Or how we should focus on merit based immigration, ignoring that we're constantly told how incompetent the government is and hence would be at it. Meanwhile, we don't merit based most things for Americans because we realize merit is its own reward. The point of government programs is to help those who are without merit in some fashion--because being poor is one of the worst offense.

So, yea, that's my take on it. I won the birth lottery and was born American. Being American is in high demand, so we have to artificially keep the supply low. Immigration is one of those choke points. Let's just ignore the looming negative population growth. Maybe we can justify it with the threat of automation and the fear of them "taking our jobs", but immigration is but a blip if automation in the service sector ends up doing what it's done to the manufacturing and agricultural sectors as far as jobs.

*shrug* I guess my strongest feeling is, we're all people. Letting governments divide us or choosing to divide ourselves from each other is self-destructive. It's why the internet is so wonderful. It's why people choosing their own echo chamber on the internet or otherwise is terrible.

@the_randomizer - I'm sorry to hear that you've lost friends over expressing your opinions and beliefs. At the same time, I'm sort of glad because those are the kind of friends who will abandon you as it suits them, anyways. Personally, I'm very disinclined to abandon a friend just because I disagree with them--maybe "humans are tasty"--, and I hope that the friendships you keep are the ones that last. Those are the rewarding ones, anyways.
 
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Vahnyyz

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The problem is, that's a horrible analogy. One, the US isn't a home. Two, even if it were a home, it's not "my" home. It's "our" home. Three, even if it were my home, it's not the equivalent of paying for their rent, food, clothing, etc. So, if you're willing to ignore all that, yes, your analogy works.



Bill Gates after he has money, right? I wonder how he got so much money. Could be because he (1) lived in America, (2) had enough connections to be in the right place to make billions, and (3) lacked the ethics to engage in responsible business practices instead of anti-competitive ones? Funny thing is, we'd have to reject Bill Gates as a citizen because he has a criminal record.



Dude, you really need better friends. I don't have friends like that. If i did, yes, I'd stop being their friend.

The real problem I have for most immigration debates is how people are so quick to claim that immigrants specifically do bad things, ignoring the 1 million+ Americans in jail. Or how we should focus on merit based immigration, ignoring that we're constantly told how incompetent the government is and hence would be at it. Meanwhile, we don't merit based most things for Americans because we realize merit is its own reward. The point of government programs is to help those who are without merit in some fashion--because being poor is one of the worst offense.

So, yea, that's my take on it. I won the birth lottery and was born American. Being American is in high demand, so we have to artificially keep the supply low. Immigration is one of those choke points. Let's just ignore the looming negative population growth. Maybe we can justify it with the threat of automation and the fear of them "taking our jobs", but immigration is but a blip if automation in the service sector ends up doing what it's done to the manufacturing and agricultural sectors as far as jobs.

*shrug* I guess my strongest feeling is, we're all people. Letting governments divide us or choosing to divide ourselves from each other is self-destructive. It's why the internet is so wonderful. It's why people choosing their own echo chamber on the internet or otherwise is terrible.

@the_randomizer - I'm sorry to hear that you've lost friends over expressing your opinions and beliefs. At the same time, I'm sort of glad because those are the kind of friends who will abandon you as it suits them, anyways. Personally, I'm very disinclined to abandon a friend just because I disagree with them--maybe "humans are tasty"--, and I hope that the friendships you keep are the ones that last. Those are the rewarding ones, anyways.

actually no, by itself my analogy works perfectly because this is MY home with MY family, we're americans here and we grow and work here to make this our country. If you ignore the basic necessities of things you have to work for to continue to make everything function the way that it should then you'd live in a utopia where computers and robots walk and eat for you and you just get to veg out and be a leech because it wouldn't matter what you do or how you do it.

with respect to the Bill Gates reference; No I meant his ingenuity, his work ethic, his want for people to succeed. He saw a system that worked really well and made his own personal switch to it with Windows. I'm talking about the obvious and direct correlations between the original Mac PCs and his. As far as his "connections" he worked on his business and reached out to make those connections it's not like just because you work hard you automatically get Warren Buffet's personal cellphone and the assumption of something like that happening is simply asinine. With regards to his "ethics" I refer you back to my original "ingenuity" claim. Just because you don't like that he did something a certain way doesn't mean you can bit** about it, that would just make you petty and small which is obviously not what we're trying to prove here.

Finally your bullsh** argument that "we're all people" is stupid. Why would anyone have to accept you just because you're you? You think just because you're breathing and taking up space you automatically deserve respect? honor? food? clothing? Sorry sir (I assume you're male but I guess I can throw in ma'am for good measure) but you can whine and moan about how "divisive" we are, but at the end of the day I don't have a problem giving my money to someone that's willing to work hard and diligently. The reason for that is because I've done so too, not on the backs and sweat of others, but by the sweat of my own brow. I've been working and running businesses several times in my life from little 1 man lawn mowing "operations" to running a business of a few hundred employees with my own fleet of trucks an things and I enjoy doing both because i DID build that. I've also specialized and worked with the government to try to get ex-convicts and offenders that ability to work and provide for their families and I did of course take advantage of ALL the tax cuts available to me because it helped my business which allowed me to help MORE people. But whatever you were born with a silver spoon somehow just by being american and because of it you've decided your self worth is less than someone elses because you have a house over your head and food on your plate. If you feel so bad do something with yourself and your life and serve the country that's given you what you have. Some of us care about what we have and understand that the things we're able to enjoy are because we're American and have worked tirelessly to have it. We can't apologize that other countries haven't done the same things for themselves.

One of my favorite sayings is "Not my monkey, not my circus" specifically because I can't speak to what other people did with the 2 pence they were given. I can only speak about mine and what I did, and I can say I'm proud of myself and I was able to help others be proud of themselves as well.
 

TotalInsanity4

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actually no, by itself my analogy works perfectly because this is MY home with MY family, we're americans here and we grow and work here to make this our country. If you ignore the basic necessities of things you have to work for to continue to make everything function the way that it should then you'd live in a utopia where computers and robots walk and eat for you and you just get to veg out and be a leech because it wouldn't matter what you do or how you do it.
Well ok then, if you're insistant on that analogy, let's look at it this way; let's say it's cold and rainy outside, and you notice there's a homeless person that's sopping wet and curled up in a fetal position at the base of your porch. Would you let them in and offer a meal and perhaps change of clothes, or would you shout at them to leave before you call the police?
 
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Vahnyyz

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Well ok then let's look at it this way; let's say it's cold and rainy outside, and you notice there's a homeless person that's sopping wet and curled up in a fetal position at the base of your porch. Would you let them in and offer a meal and perhaps change of clothes, or would you shout at them to leave before you call the police?

Personally, I'd go outside with a change of clothing and some food and figure out where he's supposed to be, because it's not MY house. If he needs helping find a shelter or something we need to get him there. If he needs medical attention then he needs to go to a healthcare facility. If someone is suffering OUTSIDE MY DOOR it's my job to help them. But my priority is to protect the people I have in my house, and bringing some stranger into my house isn't doing that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

question for gbatemp land out there. I'm curious how to disable notifications on a threat being updated. yes I'm talking about this one in case anyone was curious. I feel semi obligated to respond and I'd rather enjoy my time watching Dragonball Super. So if someone can tell me how to stop receiving notifications from this thread without having to change all my notification preferences that would be AWESOME!

and let's not be all "hur hur google is your friend" cause he's not
 

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Personally, I'd go outside with a change of clothing and some food and figure out where he's supposed to be, because it's not MY house. If he needs helping find a shelter or something we need to get him there. If he needs medical attention then he needs to go to a healthcare facility. If someone is suffering OUTSIDE MY DOOR it's my job to help them. But my priority is to protect the people I have in my house, and bringing some stranger into my house isn't doing that.
The irony is palpable.
 
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Vahnyyz

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The irony is palpable.
The irony being that it's my job to help those outside my doorstep but not to bring them into my door? you mean how we have a million and 1 programs sending our resources, our doctors, our soldiers to places they don't need to be in because they've been called to serve and help? you mean that irony?
 

blackwrensniper

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The irony being that it's my job to help those outside my doorstep but not to bring them into my door? you mean how we have a million and 1 programs sending our resources, our doctors, our soldiers to places they don't need to be in because they've been called to serve and help?
See previous statement.
 

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