Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

641313984.jpg

UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,736
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,527
Country
United States
Not including the duplicate AT&T service, it's 3 actually, and the speeds are all pretty damn good.
Sounds like a big city and not some truly ass-backwards rural area then. The US is ranked near the bottom of all modern countries in both broadband infrastructure and availability. Essentially Comcast owns half the country and TWC owns the other half, with what few smaller providers are left using Comcast/TWC's network backbone anyway.

And FYI the big ISPs already pocketed 2 billion dollars of taxpayer money without installing the broadband infrastructure they were supposed to with those subsidies.
 
Last edited by Xzi,

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,969
Country
United States
I'm guessing exactly one that's cable internet and not some DSL/satellite BS that runs at 56K speeds already?


There are lawsuits happening already, but I doubt they'll delay the repeal.

Something's got to give sooner or later. Either protests, people moving to other ISPs/providers en masse, not voting for certain politicians, either way, it's a huge ass mess
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
Sounds like a big city and not some truly ass-backwards rural area then. The US is ranked near the bottom of all modern countries in both broadband infrastructure and availability. Essentially Comcast owns half the country and TWC owns the other half, with what few smaller providers are left using Comcast/TWC's network backbone anyway.
I don't know what you define 'big city' as but I don't consider 35k a 'big city' population. Considering we're not even a 4th of the capital, and how much rural land we have in my city, I'm gonna call this "ass-backwards"
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,736
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,527
Country
United States
I don't know what you define 'big city' as but I don't consider 35k a 'big city' population. Considering we're not even a 4th of the capital, and how much rural land we have in my city, I'm gonna call this "ass-backwards"
Regardless, as I pointed out, your other providers are probably running off of Comcast/TWC backbone. When they throttle, everything will throttle. It's already happened before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
Regardless, as I pointed out, your other providers are probably running off of Comcast/TWC backbone. When they throttle, everything will throttle. It's already happened before.
Nope, they use their own lines. Came in my yard and put a line down and everything a few months after we moved in. Haven't experienced any throttling on Fidelity, yet AT&T was constant.

If I had known AT&T will throttle stuff whenever they feel like it (or flat out block connection to discord on """accident""") I damn sure would've never signed up for them; Therefore I support the new proposal because it specifically require an ISP disclose this. The tiny, rural areas where ISPs control EVERYTHING are not going to make them enough money to justify imploding the internet. It's simply not feasible. The big ISPs are way too big for their own good to be able to manage such behavior financially.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,736
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,527
Country
United States
Nope, they use their own lines. Came in my yard and put a line down and everything a few months after we moved in. Haven't experienced any throttling on Fidelity, yet AT&T was constant.

If I had known AT&T will throttle stuff whenever they feel like it (or flat out block connection to discord on """accident""") I damn sure would've never signed up for them; Therefore I support the new proposal because it specifically require an ISP disclose this. The tiny, rural areas where ISPs control EVERYTHING are not going to make them enough money to justify imploding the internet. It's simply not feasible. The big ISPs are way too big for their own good to be able to manage such behavior financially.
Running a line does not mean they aren't a t2 provider using a t1 provider's backbone. There are only a couple primary providers in the US and most everything runs through them. If they are truly independent and running a solid operation, it's only a matter of time until Comcast or TWC buys them out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,800
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,814
Country
United States
Nope, they use their own lines. Came in my yard and put a line down and everything a few months after we moved in. Haven't experienced any throttling on Fidelity, yet AT&T was constant.

If I had known AT&T will throttle stuff whenever they feel like it (or flat out block connection to discord on """accident""") I damn sure would've never signed up for them; Therefore I support the new proposal because it specifically require an ISP disclose this. The tiny, rural areas where ISPs control EVERYTHING are not going to make them enough money to justify imploding the internet. It's simply not feasible. The big ISPs are way too big for their own good to be able to manage such behavior financially.
Except that's like

Not at all how it works

https://www.quora.com/Who-provides-...re-is-the-source-of-internet-services-located
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
Anybody who thinks internet freedom aka Net Neutrality is a bad idea is either a moron or a corporate shill.
Uh, no one said it was a bad idea? I even straight up fucking agree with you. What I am saying however is that the current net neutrality rules aren't doing anything and we should rework them, and the groundwork to start this with is the FCC's new transparency rule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

comput3rus3r

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
3,580
Trophies
1
Age
123
XP
4,920
Country
United States
Uh, no one said it was a bad idea? I even straight up fucking agree with you. What I am saying however is that the current net neutrality rules aren't doing anything and we should rework them, and the groundwork to start this with is the FCC's new transparency rule.
let me put it to you as simply as anybody can possibly make it.
All net neutrality means is treating all data that's transmitted over the net EQUALLY. that's it. there's nothing to tweak. Without it isp's will favor certain data from certain websites that have a lot of money for speed. and then slowing down everyone else's average slave workers data to a crawl. what part of that simple reality are you confused about? this is why i stated if you're against treating all data equally then you're either a moron or a corporate shill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
-snip-

let me put it to you as simply as anybody can possibly make it.
All net neutrality means is treating all data that's transmitted over the net EQUALLY. that's it. there's nothing to tweak. Without it isp's will favor certain data from certain websites that have a lot of money for speed. and then slowing down everyone else's average slave workers data to a crawl. what part of that simple reality are you confused about? this is why i stated if you're against treating all data equally then you're either a moron or a corporate shill.
Stop reading heavily biased, skewed, and paraphrased summaries from websites. You're missing the bulk of the argument and are being INCREDIBLY disingenuous. Not only was that never a reality but it's not even plausible. I am someone who believes an ISP should reserve the right to throttle, slow down, or otherwise impede dataflow when it is clearly a burden on the infrastructure. In the days of 2G, people would use vonage so much that some carriers literally had to block it because no one else's data would go through, because all of their bandwidth had gone to constant vonage calls. This was also at the time, mind you, that we were just getting 3G infrastructure so a lot of workload was being put on the company trying to manage the 2G complaints while trying to also start the 3G service. Comcast did the same shit with bittorrent users -- at least the ones downloading illegal stuff -- because they were sucking up all the bandwidth like mad hogs with constant seeding and leeching. Legitimate torrents were unaffected, only the illegal ones. Again, when the infrastructure is taking a clear hit from something, I think it is fair to redirect, throttle, or if necessary flat out block the cause so that everyone else can use their stuff in peace.

I wholeheartedly agree that any ISP throttling sites for no reason, blocking them, charging exuberant rates for minor packages, and so on is abhorrent. But you clearly are not informed on this topic, the history, the debate, or the arguments of either side. You've instead decided to base your arguments solely upon a ridiculous campaign to get teens like yourself fired up over something you know nothing about. It's like the election all over again.

Also to clarify, treating all data equally is a great idea until some data is very clearly not equal to the other data. I don't know about you but 500 gigabytes of Netflix streaming isn't the same thing as, say, 5 MB of email. They should not be both treated as a 500 GB service, nor a 5 MB one. I think they should be treated individually, based on their usage, not on some flawed "everything is equal to everything" sort of philosophy.
 
Last edited by Issac, , Reason: snipped off topic content / reply to trashed content
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

comput3rus3r

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
3,580
Trophies
1
Age
123
XP
4,920
Country
United States
No champ, I never moved goal posts. I literally did not mention medicare in my post at all. I was addressing his point about them removing social security, which is false. You have no evidence to state otherwise. What you've presented was something about medicaid through social security, but does not equate to social security as a whole. You can't argue against shit no one said, and then when they show you they never said it, call that moving goalposts. Again, quit pretending you're half decent at an argument.


Stop reading heavily biased, skewed, and paraphrased summaries from websites. You're missing the bulk of the argument and are being INCREDIBLY disingenuous. Not only was that never a reality but it's not even plausible. I am someone who believes an ISP should reserve the right to throttle, slow down, or otherwise impede dataflow when it is clearly a burden on the infrastructure. In the days of 2G, people would use vonage so much that some carriers literally had to block it because no one else's data would go through, because all of their bandwidth had gone to constant vonage calls. This was also at the time, mind you, that we were just getting 3G infrastructure so a lot of workload was being put on the company trying to manage the 2G complaints while trying to also start the 3G service. Comcast did the same shit with bittorrent users -- at least the ones downloading illegal stuff -- because they were sucking up all the bandwidth like mad hogs with constant seeding and leeching. Legitimate torrents were unaffected, only the illegal ones. Again, when the infrastructure is taking a clear hit from something, I think it is fair to redirect, throttle, or if necessary flat out block the cause so that everyone else can use their stuff in peace.

I wholeheartedly agree that any ISP throttling sites for no reason, blocking them, charging exuberant rates for minor packages, and so on is abhorrent. But you clearly are not informed on this topic, the history, the debate, or the arguments of either side. You've instead decided to base your arguments solely upon a ridiculous campaign to get teens like yourself fired up over something you know nothing about. It's like the election all over again.
Hey look everybody Ajit Pai is in the forum. quickly raise your middle finger.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
Hey look everybody Ajit Pai is in the forum. quickly raise your middle finger.
Address my arguments instead of being a dumb 12 year old, kthx.
Why do you believe a 5 MB email service should be treated the same way as a 500 GB streaming service? One is very clearly going to use more data than the other, so why should one that isn't going to use as much bandwidth be given the exact same treatment, when a more logical solution would be to prioritize content like Netflix to prevent constant buffering and slowdowns?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

Kioku

猫。子猫です!
Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12,003
Trophies
3
Location
In the Murderbox!
Website
www.twitch.tv
XP
16,127
Country
United States
Address my arguments instead of being a dumb 12 year old, kthx.
Why do you believe a 5 MB email service should be treated the same way as a 500 GB streaming service? One is very clearly going to use more data than the other, so why should one that isn't going to use as much bandwidth be given the exact same treatment, when a more logical solution would be to prioritize content like Netflix to prevent constant buffering and slowdowns?
You're expecting a bit much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,969
Country
United States
I was planning to do the same since you kept strawmanning me and accusing me of arguments I never once made, and blatantly refuse to acknowledge my points simply because I'm not getting worked up over something that won't affect 95% of people, if anyone at all.

Thanks, but I'm only 20.

How would this not affect more than 5% of people?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    Black_Manta_8bit @ Black_Manta_8bit: hey