Gaming People are getting Odyssey early, stay away from spoilers!

HaloEliteLegend · Oct 23, 2017

FAST6191 said:
Fair enough, seems like a silly thing for this sort of game but try to do life how you will.

It's the sense of "discovery," y'know? Again, it's just me, but experiencing something for the first time through my own gameplay is a nice feeling. This game is about exploration, after all. I don't want power moon locations spoiled or anything.

FAST6191 · Oct 23, 2017

HaloEliteLegend said:
It's the sense of "discovery," y'know? Again, it's just me, but experiencing something for the first time through my own gameplay is a nice feeling. This game is about exploration, after all. I don't want power moon locations spoiled or anything.

There is a philosophical thought exercise dealing with someone locked from birth in a black and white room reading a book about colours. Before you let them out into the world to do colours first hand do have they experienced colours.

Such a thing also ties well into Mario, what with the first 30 seconds/"screens" of NES Mario being considered a master class on teaching someone to play the game.

For Mario such a thing for me is almost all in the play and always has been. To that end I find this spoiler aversion for this to be quite bizarre and something I struggle to make sense of beyond extreme aversion to such things which seldom sits that well with me, mainly as such things make me think of lines in the sand and one of my favourite games being to poke holes in such things.

I did earlier try to think of what games it might apply to and how I might break it down but other than mechanical differences I often look at for games would not work here (you could possibly spoil banjo*, hard to spoil Mario 64, could spoil Crysis, probably could not spoil original Doom) and maybe that the let's play/longplay vs the world concept might be a place to start looking (though probably not as would still want to play banjo, don't care at all about playing the last of us having since seen a let's play) I did not get very far.

Play it however you will but for this if I am expected to rustle up some sympathy or empathy, or indeed possibly consider standing in solidarity, I need stronger arguments than have thus far been presented in something I find to have come completely out of left field.

*maybe it is Banjo's somewhat zany and off the wall humour compared to Mario's safe and pedestrian but at least formerly (earlier I spent some time slicing up the artwork for it and the uncanny valley thing got worse than it was looking at the grainy video loop at the Nintendo press event) quite pleasing visual design.

HaloEliteLegend · Oct 23, 2017

FAST6191 said:
There is a philosophical thought exercise dealing with someone locked from birth in a black and white room reading a book about colours. Before you let them out into the world to do colours first hand do have they experienced colours.

Such a thing also ties well into Mario, what with the first 30 seconds/"screens" of NES Mario being considered a master class on teaching someone to play the game.

For Mario such a thing for me is almost all in the play and always has been. To that end I find this spoiler aversion for this to be quite bizarre and something I struggle to make sense of beyond extreme aversion to such things which seldom sits that well with me, mainly as such things make me think of lines in the sand and one of my favourite games being to poke holes in such things.

I did earlier try to think of what games it might apply to and how I might break it down but other than mechanical differences I often look at for games would not work here (you could possibly spoil banjo*, hard to spoil Mario 64, could spoil Crysis, probably could not spoil original Doom) and maybe that the let's play/longplay vs the world concept might be a place to start looking (though probably not as would still want to play banjo, don't care at all about playing the last of us having since seen a let's play) I did not get very far.

Play it however you will but for this if I am expected to rustle up some sympathy or empathy, or indeed possibly consider standing in solidarity, I need stronger arguments than have thus far been presented in something I find to have come completely out of left field.

*maybe it is Banjo's somewhat zany and off the wall humour compared to Mario's safe and pedestrian but at least formerly (earlier I spent some time slicing up the artwork for it and the uncanny valley thing got worse than it was looking at the grainy video loop at the Nintendo press event) quite pleasing visual design.

Every person is different. For me, I would consider catching a glimpse of a boss I haven't seen yet to be a spoiler, for example. I'd like to see it for the first time myself. It's an element of surprise, not knowing what's gonna come next, that forms part of my interest in playing certain games. If I knew where all the moons were hidden in a world in Odyssey, for example, it would be far less fun for me playing the game, since the joy of discovery (that this game is incumbent upon) would be lost. If I saw a full playthrough of this game, and then played it myself, I would have some fun, but it would feel incredibly stale, since I would've already seen everything. The actual platforming isn't enough. I want the challenges the game throws at me as a player to feel surprising and new. If I already know what to expect, it removes the motivation to keep playing and find out. That applies to gameplay as much as it does to story. I as a player don't want to know what gameplay challenges the game is going to throw at me, I want to be surprised when I get there. Surprise is a very big motivator.

Xzi · Oct 23, 2017

Subtle Demise said:
It's a Mario game, not like it's metal gear or something

So? Any good game I'd rather play than watch. I hate how many people prefer to watch games now.

Appreciate the heads-up, OP.

FAST6191 · Oct 24, 2017

Xzi said:
So? Any good game I'd rather play than watch. I hate how many people prefer to watch games now.

Appreciate the heads-up, OP.

I don't know how you got to prefer to watch from that. That is not as much strawman as drawing of a strawman.
I read it more, and later posts would seem to confirm, it was more of a
Spoilers. Certainly something you can benefit from in life if you avoid them.
OK. What aspect of Mario is spoiled by seeing it before you play it yourself? There seem to be so very few and thus avoiding them seems like an odd path to take here.

HaloEliteLegend said:
Every person is different. For me, I would consider catching a glimpse of a boss I haven't seen yet to be a spoiler, for example. I'd like to see it for the first time myself. It's an element of surprise, not knowing what's gonna come next, that forms part of my interest in playing certain games. If I knew where all the moons were hidden in a world in Odyssey, for example, it would be far less fun for me playing the game, since the joy of discovery (that this game is incumbent upon) would be lost. If I saw a full playthrough of this game, and then played it myself, I would have some fun, but it would feel incredibly stale, since I would've already seen everything. The actual platforming isn't enough. I want the challenges the game throws at me as a player to feel surprising and new. If I already know what to expect, it removes the motivation to keep playing and find out. That applies to gameplay as much as it does to story. I as a player don't want to know what gameplay challenges the game is going to throw at me, I want to be surprised when I get there. Surprise is a very big motivator.

Then maybe we have to generate a spectrum of spoilerness from "Tyler Durden is a hallucination/projection and in fact everything you saw was done by the other main character" (such a thing happened to me) to "the mini boss of the second level of Mario Odyssey is in fact a slightly reimagined bullet bill".

I agree in some cases such things could be a bit stale*. All you said I can see applying for loads of games, however I still can't see it for Mario**, even if you are the kind of person that would memorise a speedrun. Even if I know to do a wall kick at this point for this blue coin then I still have to do the wall kick and that is typically it, not like the time I read a walkthrough for Fez which did have variously hidden things.

*choice video covering some aspects of it all, albeit for films

**red coins, move the camera and explore the next corner. Blue coins, fast and precise moves and rote memorisation. Large coins/medals/some of the yoshi challenges in sunshine, usually a path further back in the level or with a lesser used/seen powerup and maybe some blue coin like action at times. They mix it up well enough (give or take New Super Mario Brothers) that each game still feels somewhat fresh, compared to say pokemon which has barely changed since possibly red and blue but far more readily argued for in gold and silver.

Xzi · Oct 24, 2017

FAST6191 said:
OK. What aspect of Mario is spoiled by seeing it before you play it yourself? There seem to be so very few and thus avoiding them seems like an odd path to take here.

Unrevealed boss fights and hidden items/objectives. The game obviously isn't going to be that hard, but that doesn't mean I don't want to figure things out for myself.

HaloEliteLegend · Oct 24, 2017

FAST6191 said:
Even if I know to do a wall kick at this point for this blue coin then I still have to do the wall kick and that is typically it

Right, but simply doing it isn't the same feeling as figuring out you have to do that wall kick and then doing it. It's not the act of doing it that matters for me, but figuring out to do that in the first place. Doing that wall kick would just be simple manipulation of the controls, whereas figuring out you have to do that involves a small mental challenge that, to me, feels more rewarding than already knowing to execute that move at that place.

I focused on this one example you gave because it illustrates the way I think when looking at a new game. Even if Mario is a more simple game than, say, Witcher 3, surprise still plays a role in enjoyment. I'd still want to find out that a boss was a slightly re-imagined bullet bill for myself than read/see it somewhere else first and then fight it.

FAST6191 · Oct 24, 2017

If that is what rocks your world then so be it. Mario always stuck me as a limited move set and fairly well defined moves at that (going mario 64 the long jump, side jump, wall jump, multiple jump thing all felt quite different and achieved quite different styles of movement and were often sharply limited in other ways). That lends itself to a play by brute force approach almost being viable (you would still do better should you be able to gauge distances) and thus we are back to memorisation, timings and reactions being the thing. Such a thing I saw in all the Mario games I have played and expect to see again here.

I guess we are back to if that is the way you want to roll then so be it, however I don't feel in any way compelled to... honour that (in your thread I won't do it I guess but general threads or reviews are fair game) and still find it quite bizarre (when I awoke this morning and wandered into the thread I would not placed money on that sentiment being a thing like this). It feels somewhat like the time I found out some people actually really like Sonic Adventure and don't consider it shockingly poor given its heritage. It is not impossible that I would have changed my mind here but thus far all have failed to present an argument I find in any way compelling.

HaloEliteLegend · Oct 24, 2017

FAST6191 said:
all have failed to present an argument I find in any way compelling.

'Cos it's all personal preference. We all play and enjoy games differently

Been nice talkin' with you!

FAST6191 · Oct 24, 2017

Many times I can see a sliver of logic underpinning something, however chronic spoiler aversion seems like most times anything gets labelled chronic and probably wants to be pitied and or/fixed.

g00s3y · Oct 26, 2017

In a Mario game, I'd be most surprised if Bowser wasn't the final boss.

:Spoiler alert:

Gaming People are getting Odyssey early, stay away from spoilers!

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