Hacking [Poll] Bans and "send information about the console to Nintendo"

Zalexard · May 25, 2017

Karuley said:
well bank is definetly broken atm, good luck trying to get those back, my friend

I've already written those as pretty much lost unless I get a new console meanwhile, manage to do a system transfer and it actually works I stay unbanned. Very hypothetical I should add.

Karuley · May 25, 2017

Zalexard said:
I've already written those as pretty much lost unless I get a new console meanwhile, manage to do a system transfer and it actually works I stay unbanned. Very hypothetical I should add.

i think the ban gets transfered over if you do that, maybe unlinking your NNID from your old one and syncing into a new one? not sure if that would work

Mysuke · May 25, 2017

This seems to be one of the biggest offender at very least but as said before there could be more "flags" causing the ban.

I'm not banned but i always had spotpass sharing info and downloads disabled. I did this on the day i got my 2DS before even installing a9lh/CFW or any homebrew application.

Friend list however had the option to share game i'm currently playing enabled, favorite game was a legit one (MK7). I don't have a NNID linked, never had to use one anyway so i never bothered creating one.

Issac · May 25, 2017

Ishtiaq1234 said:
you should have the luma updater cia thing just open that it should show what version you have (i think its above where it says hourly) sadly it requires turning your net on sooo......

Ah okay! However, I haven't bothered with either Hourly or Nightly builds. I only went with the full releases. And I haven't touched my 3DS since January, so I'm pretty sure I've got Luma 6.6

I could check my friend list alright, so I'm not banned... but then again, I don't have internet enabled right now. Don't want to take any risk :o

Spazturtle · May 25, 2017

What about the option to share data with Nintendo in the Streetpass Mii Plaza? Doesn't that send data to Nintendo about who you streetpass and what games you have streetpass enabled for?

It's also enabled by default.

j0zu3 · May 25, 2017

I dont know if a not banned 3ds is relevant but here are my data

New 3DS XL B9S Luma 7.1
I disable spotpass BEFORE hacking the console and is still disabled, also i dont show what i am playing to friends and i deleted the folder 0x00010022 and 0x00020212 everytime i stop using homebrew to remove any activity log

Played yesterday and playing now online without any problems

Zalexard · May 25, 2017

Karuley said:
i think the ban gets transfered over if you do that, maybe unlinking your NNID from your old one and syncing into a new one? not sure if that would work

Then I'm not really gonna bother with it. Worst part is I had still like, 200-something days left on my pokebank. Guess who's not gonna resub again?

kingaz · May 25, 2017

el_gonz87 said:
No actually in the real world, judgement is reserved and surveys are collected until enough data is available to make a statement (thank god it's not like you suggest). Nobody jumps to assumption, based on a single metric or on a sample size that we don't even know how effectively represents the hacking community.

A cause for a ban would imply that it is the reason for bans, and you have 120+ people who have not been banned meeting that criteria. The contributing factors are important for us to know exactly where N is looking to determine CFW use. It's stupid to simplify it to a single setting....

And again, there is two binary groups in the poll. The majority of those that did share information with Nintendo were not banned. My point stands.

1) In the real world, people need to make decisions quickly and cheaply. We don't always have the luxury to be able to afford paying for or waiting around for the most detailed and complete survey ever. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to sit around with your thumb up your butt, and if you want to keep your Data Sharing option on while you use unauthorized software while we get more data, go nuts.

2) You have a poor conception of the question we are trying to ask. This isn't "what is Nintendo detecting." It is an important question, to be sure, but it is much more difficult to answer, and all of the details you mention are important there. But there's a simpler question that these data do help indicate: "how is Nintendo detecting what we're doing?" It isn't the ultimate cause, but it is a mechanism, and that is much more important to us.

3) The people who haven't been banned aren't out of the woods. They might be banned down the road. Or they might not. We don't know. But it can't be said that they haven't escaped detection, so they can't be considered a useful control or comparison.

This is a crude metric, but when precise metrics are just not available, then you do what you can with what you have. And even with our relatively small sample size, it is large enough to establish the credibility of the data sharing being *one* of the possible ways by which Nintendo is detecting our activity and banning us.

Aurora Wright · May 25, 2017

THEELEMENTKH said:
I still find very weird that the cause of the bans is this.
I almost never went online (and the times I went online I didn't cheat)
I disabled both options the day I got my N3DSXL (even on SNES VC)
97% of the time my N3DSXL was on airplane mode (1% for freeshop, another 1% for SD Card management and the last 1% for local multiplayer)
And I still got banned

Is the option disabled even now? There was another person who was sure of this, but they checked and it turned out to be enabled.
Also, did you have the "share played title" option enabled in the friends list?

Deleted User · May 25, 2017

Could this have possibly been caused by doodlebomb?

Spotpass was enabled and share played title option in my friends list was also enabled, however I was not banned.

Joshwraith · May 25, 2017

I just suspiction about freeshop and yes maybe doodlebomb!

Skonikol · May 25, 2017

In connection with congenital paranoia, I always disable any such transfer of information about the system. Both items were switched off before installing a9lh during initial setup, the games will never be included. No ban.

Aurora Wright · May 25, 2017

el_gonz87 said:
You don't base an assumption off of just 1 metric, there should be more information as to what the people did, especially with such a small sample size....

Believe what you want, but I think you have a very misguided view of statistics.

We know that the home menu sends every 24h data via spotpass containing icons/titleids of installed titles. And this is probably what this option controls. And with title ids, it's easy to ban people (just have a whitelist with all released titles or a blacklist of cia homebrews like fbi and freeshop, and ban). So, technically it makes sense, since otherwise there's not much data that is sent to Nintendo's servers without the user's intervention.
On top of it, the data is clear.
86% of banned people who replied to this survey had the option enabled.
48% of those who had it on were banned, whereas 15% of those who had it off were banned.
Over 400 people replied to the poll.

That said, there's probably at least one other factor to account for the remaining 14% of bans. Imo, it might be the "share currently played title" option in the friend list, or playing online with foreign games.

el_gonz87 · May 25, 2017

kingaz said:
1) In the real world, people need to make decisions quickly and cheaply. We don't always have the luxury to be able to afford paying for or waiting around for the most detailed and complete survey ever. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to sit around with your thumb up your butt, and if you want to keep your Data Sharing option on while you use unauthorized software while we get more data, go nuts.

2) You have a poor conception of the question we are trying to ask. This isn't "what is Nintendo detecting." It is an important question, to be sure, but it is much more difficult to answer, and all of the details you mention are important there. But there's a simpler question that these data do help indicate: "how is Nintendo detecting what we're doing?" It isn't the ultimate cause, but it is a mechanism, and that is much more important to us.

3) The people who haven't been banned aren't out of the woods. They might be banned down the road. Or they might not. We don't know. But it can't be said that they haven't escaped detection, so they can't be considered a useful control or comparison.

This is a crude metric, but when precise metrics are just not available, then you do what you can with what you have. And even with our relatively small sample size, it is large enough to establish the credibility of the data sharing being *one* of the possible ways by which Nintendo is detecting our activity and banning us.

LOL I love how my system isn't banned, but I don't know what I'm doing!

You are obviously taking the easy way out and this will get people banned in the future, it is much easier to change how Nintendo looks than where they look. Don't think this will be the last of it, they will develop other ways to keep looking into our systems and we have to develop ways to avoid it such as:

1) Keeping your sysnand home menu clear of illegitimate software (I do).
2) Using an offline emunand for pirated CIAs (I do).
3) Downloading CIAs from computer with tools such as GroovyCIA instead of directly from console with freeshop accessing Nintendo servers (I do).

Sometime it pays more in life to be strategic, you obviously don't think like that...

kingaz · May 25, 2017

el_gonz87 said:
LOL I love how my system isn't banned, but I don't know what I'm doing!

You are obviously taking the easy way out and this will get people banned in the future, it is much easier to change how Nintendo looks than where they look. Don't think this will be the last of it, they will develop other ways to keep looking into our systems and we have to develop ways to avoid it such as:

1) Keeping your sysnand home menu clear of illegitimate software (I do).
2) Using an offline emunand for pirated CIAs (I do).
3) Downloading CIAs from computer with tools such as GroovyCIA instead of directly from console with freeshop accessing Nintendo servers (I do).

Sometime it pays more in life to be strategic, you obviously don't think like that...

Oh I was absolutely careless when it came to my system, no doubt. I definitely earned this ban. But I know that I can unban my system in a pinch, since I have two clean LFCS's to spare. Oh, and I have a console that is unbanned on top of those other two.

However, unlike you, I do know statistics. And I know enough to not try to save face when called out for not knowing the difference between a majority and a plurality. But you obviously don't think like that...

Spazturtle · May 25, 2017

Aurora Wright said:
We know that the home menu sends every 24h data via spotpass containing icons/titleids of installed titles. And this is probably what this option controls. And with title ids, it's easy to ban people (just have a whitelist with all released titles or a blacklist of cia homebrews like fbi and freeshop, and ban). So, technically it makes sense, since otherwise there's not much data that is sent to Nintendo's servers without the user's intervention.
On top of it, the data is clear.
86% of banned people who replied to this survey had the option enabled.
48% of those who had it on were banned, whereas 15% of those who had it off were banned.
Over 400 people replied to the poll.

That said, there's probably at least one other factor to account for the remaining 14% of bans. Imo, it might be the "share currently played title" option in the friend list.

Doesn't the e-shop also read the titleid's of all titles installed on startup? Which is how it says you 'own; games that have been installed from CIAs.

Aurora Wright · May 25, 2017

Spazturtle said:
Doesn't the e-shop also read the titleid's of all games installed on startup? Which is how it says you 'own; games that have been installed from CIAs.

I think it checks the ticket when you go to the title's page. But it apparently doesn't send all the tickets to the server.

AxlSt00pid · May 25, 2017

Aurora Wright said:
Is the option disabled even now? There was another person who was sure of this, but they checked and it turned out to be enabled.
Also, did you have the "share played title" option enabled in the friends list?

Yes, it's still disabled and yes, sadly the share played title is enabled (but I thought it only showed a No information available message)

el_gonz87 · May 25, 2017

Aurora Wright said:
We know that the home menu sends every 24h data via spotpass containing icons/titleids of installed titles. And this is probably what this option controls. And with title ids, it's easy to ban people (just have a whitelist with all released titles or a blacklist of cia homebrews like fbi and freeshop, and ban). So, technically it makes sense, since otherwise there's not much data that is sent to Nintendo's servers without the user's intervention.
On top of it, the data is clear.
86% of banned people who replied to this survey had the option enabled.
48% of those who had it on were banned, whereas 15% of those who had it off were banned.
Over 400 people replied to the poll.

That said, there's probably at least one other factor to account for the 14% of bans. Imo, it might be the "share currently played title" option in the friend list.

But we don't know what the banned people did, some of them could have been using a public LFCS, others could have been using Pokemon cheats online.

It's not smart to tell people they are safe when we don't know this is the only mechanism Nintendo uses to identify. We should really try to get a better picture of how the un-banned vs banned systems differ besides this.

Aurora Wright · May 25, 2017

el_gonz87 said:
But we don't know what the banned people did, some of them could have been using a public LFC, others could have been using Pokemon cheats online.

It's not smart to tell people they are safe when we don't know this is the only mechanism Nintendo uses to identify. We should really try to get a better picture of how the un-banned vs banned systems differ besides this.

The same can be said about those who had the option off. There's no reason why having it on means a higher likelihood of doing something else

Hacking [Poll] Bans and "send information about the console to Nintendo"

Were you banned, and did you have this option enabled?

I have it enabled and was banned

I have it enabled and was NOT banned

I have it disabled and was banned

I have it disabled and was NOT banned

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