Developer Playtonic Removes Jontron from Yooka-Laylee Cast

UltraHurricane · Mar 24, 2017

jimbo13 said:
So you admit it's a painful disenfranchising policy, yet still are calling people racist for their objections.

wait...

so i'm racist for saying cultural progress is painful?

hmmm... yeah, i'm just gonna reply with this image

jimbo13 · Mar 24, 2017

UltraHurricane said:
wait...
so i'm racist for saying cultural progress is painful?

No one called you racist, I cited YOU insuating people are racist xenophobes for objecting to having their tax dollars used to subsidize socially engineered demographic disenfranchisement with transport, housing and welfare while pretending loading people on to government provided bus's is a natural cultural occurrence.

There is nothing unintentional or organic about the current open border invasions.

An apt euphemism would be someone complaining of being wet, while you drone on about the rain being a natural occurrence failing to notice in fact it is someone dumping a bucket of water on their head.

UltraHurricane · Mar 24, 2017

Foxi4 said:
I never assumed anything, I was stating a hypothetical. I find it even more amusing that you'd bring up the Cold War is your argument, considering the fact that it was called "Cold" for a reason. There was no epic battle between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, America simply "outspended" it into bankruptcy via the arms and space races.

you didn't make it clear thou, you had a long diatribe as if i advocated violence on people that disagreed with me instead of making actual rebuttals on anything else i said, which you're doing now by correcting me on the Cold War (with did have smaller conflicts and a body count btw)

i'm starting to get the feeling you're derailing the discussion so that you won't have to admit your wrong about something

jimbo13 · Mar 24, 2017

UltraHurricane said:
you didn't make it clear thou, you had a long diatribe as if i advocated violence on people that disagreed with me instead of making actual rebuttals on anything else i said, which you're doing now by correcting me on the Cold War (with did have smaller conflicts and a body count btw)

i'm starting to get the feeling you're derailing the discussion so that you won't have to admit your wrong about something

We all have youtube and we have all seen the typical SORRY-NOT-SORRY SJW cover for violence, you're not fooling anyone. Like you said, "they were asking for it" and you will look the other way.

UltraHurricane · Mar 24, 2017

jimbo13 said:
We all have youtube and we have all seen the typical SORRY-NOT-SORRY SJW cover for violence, you're not fooling anyone. Like you said, "they were asking for it" and you will look the other way.

oh maaaaan, i feel so bad turning my backs against nazis, hurr durrr i'm just as bad as them

hobbledehoy899 · Mar 24, 2017

eworm said:
Coca-Cola Santa Claus holiday

That's the best way to holiday.

jimbo13 · Mar 24, 2017

UltraHurricane said:
oh maaaaan, i feel so bad turning my backs against nazis, hurr durrr i'm just as bad as them

Except Jon Tron isn't a Nazi, no where close and just because you label someone a Nazi doesn't make it okay to use violence against them, anymore than me labeling all Democrats communists so it's okay to shoot at them.

That is terrorism, the act / condoning of violence for a political means.

FAST6191 · Mar 24, 2017

Many thoughts. I have not especially looked into what the guy said at this point, though I did see something in passing and it looked a bit misguided at best, and don't have the greatest desire to go do a proper look into things. Likewise I am not terribly familiar with the guy in question's work. As such this will probably be more of a hypothetical.

You have the ages old art from the artists conundrum. That being does the work of an artist that is a cunt somehow be troubled, equally when that one artist is but one of many (and given solo game dev is a bit like solo film dev*, which is to say possible but tends not to make the shiniest results) then does that change things?

*not a random choice as film directors have had this trouble works before despite there being actors, producers, editors, and more vastly outnumbering them.

~~In a world~~ We have technically had the ability to do a fairly deep dive into everything someone might have said for years now but it is somewhat easier now for anybody to do. As this is not an unknown variable though...

One of my favourite things I have read on the internet in recent years is https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm . It would also seem that for some where some are more equal than others that you can use variations on the themes covered on that link to trouble people, and it is not hard to do.

Haloman800 · Mar 24, 2017

Let's recap. JonTron's voice removed by developers of new game because he used factual crime statistics while debating another youtuber that blacks commit more crime in a political debate. The company now calls JonTron, the child of Iranian immigrants, a nazi white supremacist.

Eddypikachu · Mar 24, 2017

Haloman800 said:
Let's recap. JonTron's voice removed by developers of new game because he used factual crime statistics while debating another youtuber that blacks commit more crime in a political debate. The company now calls JonTron, the child of Iranian immigrants, a nazi white supremacist.

He mentioned white purity. That speaks volumes in and of itself. Used to like him a bit but once that came out of his mouth... Nope. So what exactly is he saying about those of his fans (such as myself) whom are bi-ethnic/bi-racial? I am bi-racial and have no sympathy for him. He essentially spits in the face for what my parents stood and fought for. My parents were harassed for their relationship which was considered illegal at one point in time.

StarTrekVoyager · Mar 24, 2017

What's funny is that in the US appearently liberal=left-wing. In France, we use this word in the economic meaning, so a liberals range from center-left (social-liberal) to right (ultraliberal). Anyways, thing is you don't understand the word race is nonsense. A race doesn't mean anything in science, and the last pseudoscientist to have used that were Nazis. Genetically speaking, there isn't anything that shows a 'race'. There are genes for skin color, eye color etc., and the variant of these genes you have determine what you look like. That's why a member of a Zulu tribe in Africa can have a child with your 'average' all-white-skin-blue-eyes-etc. Swedish lady and this child will be a perfectly viable human with his own look. That's what defines our species (and not race), Homo sapiens. That's all. The word race shall be only used for dogs, and even there it isn't really justified since a chihuahua and a golden retriever are in the same exact species. PERIOD. White isn't an ethnical difference.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Haloman800 said:
Let's recap. JonTron's voice removed by developers of new game because he used factual crime statistics while debating another youtuber that blacks commit more crime in a political debate. The company now calls JonTron, the child of Iranian immigrants, a nazi white supremacist.

Except the company isn't judging JonTron, it just wants to avoid trouble and people calling it white supremacist, whether that's right or not, for having kept JonTron.

Eddypikachu · Mar 24, 2017

Foxi4 said:
What you're doing is called a Slippery Slope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Wishing to preserve tradition, customs and national identity does not necessarily lead to the holocaust - that's a slippery slope.

The U.S. existed for centuries with migrants from all around the world coming to America in search of a more prosperous life, assimilating with the population and making it richer. What conservatives want to avoid is creating pockets of non-assimilated migrants establishing small proxy states where they recreate the conditions of their country of origin instead of adapting to "The American Way", which is something we can observe today. The social contract of immigration assumes that the immigrant will adjust to the customs of the host country, it's how it's always been. If immigrants are creating cliques and enclaves, that's the system failing to work. If the host embraces you, you must in turn make an effort to embrace the host.

There's no such thing as the "American way", America is EVERYTHING it's a mix of every single culture and race together. And by attempting to assimilate every culture that comes here into whatever culture you think they should, that's when you're really destroying the "American Way".
"The social contract of immigration assumes that the immigrant will adjust to the customs of the host country." How come white imperialists didn't adjust to the customs of the Native Americans when they immigrated to North America then? Why is this double standard present here?

Xzi · Mar 24, 2017

Haloman800 said:
Let's recap. JonTron's voice removed by developers of new game because he used factual crime statistics while debating another youtuber that blacks commit more crime in a political debate. The company now calls JonTron, the child of Iranian immigrants, a nazi white supremacist.

If we're doing an honest recap, then no, he didn't use any statistic at all but rather just a blanket statement that can't possibly be true in every situation, and is also guaranteed to offend a certain number of people. And Playtonic didn't use any label against him in their statement, let alone call him a nazi.

Eddypikachu · Mar 24, 2017

eworm said:
What ties a nation is culture. When there are actually several separate cultures in a country, we have a broken nation - many groups of people whose interests collide instead of being overall about the nation's best interest. It's natural to care about one's or one's group's well-being first and foremost, but the very goal behind forming a nation of people is to have big interests that people in it share.

Now, if by multiculturalism you don't actually mean multiple cultures, but a single culture that's a mish-mash of many various cultural influences from around the world, that's a different story. That's basically what every culture is already, in fact, especially in America. However, the problem is a lot of people nowadays think multiculturalism is a goal in and of itself and a goal we should all actively and irresponsibly strive towards - it's not. Why should it be? Why should we abandon some of our roots and the meaning behind them and replace them with something from elsewhere that we share no deeper connection with? If we're bored with our ancestry, our holidays, our cultural heritage, our shared, deeply rooted values - the problem aren't those things, but the boredom itself. Bringing stuff from elsewhere just because it's new and different won't change the fact that we're getting shallow about our values.

"Why should we abandon some of our roots and the meaning behind them and replace them with something from elsewhere that we share no deeper connection with?" The mixing of cultures does not mean giving up your own for another it means accepting that there are other people around you that have different cultures than you and embracing their differences. There's nothing wrong with this.

Greymane · Mar 24, 2017

Eddypikachu said:
"Why should we abandon some of our roots and the meaning behind them and replace them with something from elsewhere that we share no deeper connection with?" The mixing of cultures does not mean giving up your own for another it means accepting that there are other people around you that have different cultures than you and embracing their differences. There's nothing wrong with this.

A serious question on that, in case of extreme value/culture clash then what? Wouldn't it mean one would need to compromise and thus at least change his value's or expression of his culture.

Eddypikachu · Mar 24, 2017

There will inevitably be those who cry "muh freeze peach!"

Playtonic has free speech too. And they chose to speak against Jon with their own free speech.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Greymane said:
A serious question on that, in case of extreme value/culture clash then what? Wouldn't it mean one would need to compromise and thus at least change his value's or expression of his culture.

Not at all. It's really about letting people do their own thing, celebrate in their own culture while simultaneously celebrating in your culture. You don't have to abandon your own culture in order to let other people celebrate theirs. And if you want to share your culture with another person then go ahead, and if they want to share their culture to you then they should go ahead and do it. If you don't want to share your culture then that's okay too, and if they don't want to share their culture with you then that's okay too. It takes very little effort to mind you own business and let other people express who they are.

KingVamp · Mar 24, 2017

Foxi4 said:
Playtonic is making a reskin, there's no doubt in my mind that that's exactly what it is. Both games cash in on nostalgia, it's just that one is a completely original product that's good in and out of itself while the other rides on the former glory of the predecessor, and quite shamelessly at that. We've explored this extensively within this thread already.

Even if I agree that this is just a reskin ( I don't), so what? This is what people wanted. Again, people buy remakes and ports all the time. I better than not having the game at all.

Foxi4 said:
Yes, because they're people and they deserve the exact same protections as everybody else.

I'm not saying some people don't go overboard, but what exactly are we protecting, when we are protecting, for example, racism?

Foxi4 said:
I'm okay with the characters, I'm not okay with the constant policy of appeasement and the fake "every colour of the rainbow" shtick because I see it for what it is - a shameless attempt at cashing in on the SJW trend. They're not just making a diverse cast - we get that in almost every single video game nowadays. They're making a huge song and dance about it, that's what's bothering. It's not enough that Symmetra is an ethnic minority, she must also has autism. It's not enough that Tracer is an independent woman and poster girl for the game, she must necessarily be a lesbian. I'm unironically waiting for them to announce that the Russian chick is transgender - it really wouldn't shock me.

I understand you don't like appeasement, but I still don't get what that has to do with weather, for example, Tracer is an independent woman that happens to be a lesbian or not. Are devs not allow to have a ethnic minority with autism or a transgender Russian now, without being afraid or accused of appealing to someone? I don't see why the reason even matters on how diverse and complex a cast is.

Besides, if they or devs in general didn't appeal this way, it would have been something else to appeal with.

Clydefrosch said:
4 people who are petty enough to not buy the game based on this, there will be 4 people who really don't care about games much that will now buy it instead.

I thought about this. Wasn't quite sure it was fair to say.

the_randomizer said:
If JonTron was smart, he would've waited till game release and then said his uh *ahem* views. But I digress, that's not the issue here, it's all a big effing mess to be sure. Ugh.

Not like he knew this was going to happen, but he would have still been patched out.

jimbo13 · Mar 24, 2017

StarTrekVoyager said:
Anyways, thing is you don't understand the word race is nonsense. A race doesn't mean anything in science, and the last pseudoscientist to have used that were Nazis. Genetically speaking, there isn't anything that shows a 'race'. There are genes for skin color, eye color etc., and the variant of these genes you have determine what you look like. That's why a member of a Zulu tribe in Africa can have a child with your 'average' all-white-skin-blue-eyes-etc. Swedish lady and this child will be a perfectly viable human with his own look. That's what defines our species (and not race), Homo sapiens. That's all. The word race shall be only used for dogs, and even there it isn't really justified since a chihuahua and a golden retriever are in the same exact species. PERIOD. White isn't an ethnical difference.

Nazi science put a man on the moon, citing it as Nazi does not validate or invalidate it. There is little quality modern science in this regard, other than bullshit social studies people have interjected because it is socially safe and expedient. As Jon Tron has demonstrated you can't even cite factual statistics let alone do deep research on genetic differences between humans. But what little there is, we know Asians and Europeans have substantially more Neanderthal DNA than Africans do (none generally) and Jews use DNA testing for Israeli citizen after determining Jewish ethnicity routinely.

Actual forensic Anthropologists still classify humans, (not PC social studies people) Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Ausaloid etc. They can pick skull right off the ground and generally know the persons race/ancestry just like a breed of dog.

Because that "unique" trait you are citing of humans being an entirely social construct is bullshit right up there with creationism to think humans are some how exempted from genetic differentiation and Darwinism.

Deleted User · Mar 24, 2017

Goddamn, NeoGAF is having a fieldday over this. Good video on the subject.

StarTrekVoyager · Mar 24, 2017

jimbo13 said:
Nazi science put a man on the moon, citing it as Nazi does not validate or invalidate it. There is little quality modern science in this regard, other than bullshit social studies people have interjected because it is socially safe and expedient. As Jon Tron has demonstrated you can't even cite factual statistics let alone do deep research on genetic differences between humans. But what little there is, we know Asians and Europeans have substantially more Neanderthal DNA than Africans do (none generally) and Jews use DNA testing for Israeli citizen after determining Jewish ethnicity routinely.

Actual forensic Anthropologists still classify humans, (not PC social studies people) Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Ausaloid etc. They can pick skull right off the ground and generally know the persons race/ancestry just like a breed of dog.

Because that "unique" trait you are citing of humans being an entirely social construct is bullshit right up there with creationism to think humans are some how exempted from genetic differentiation and Darwinism.

.
That guy didn't cite any statiostics. And the 'science' you're citong is a science pulled off in 19th century to justify racist behaviors and even slavery. I am not even speaking about social studies, but about GENETICS. And did you know there was more genetical difference between two neighbor African tribes than between a Caucasian and an Asian? A race is a racist word. Period. Race don't exist, that has been proven.

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