Developer Playtonic Removes Jontron from Yooka-Laylee Cast

Sliter · Mar 24, 2017

is this a reason to remove him? i'm not a big fan or something but hey, his is two different things o_o

Saturosias · Mar 24, 2017

Foxi4 said:
Of course it is. The word itself is derived from an Italian name of a bundle of sticks,

You're already wrong right there: fascio just means bundle/group, it has nothing to do with sticks. We're also not discussing fascio; fascism is derived from the word and has its own specific meaning, a sociopolitical one.

Penalising something for a thought crime is fascistic in nature, there's no denying that.

Crimes are by definition punishable by law. The company is not appealing to law; it is exercising its own freedom of association.

Fascist regimes subsist on destroying opposing ideas, that's how they operate.

Any authoritarian regime operates that way, and authoritarianism does not necessitate fascism. Furthermore, neither the person you quoted nor the company is "destroying" ideas. It is their right to disassociate from those with whose ideas they disagree.

TobiasAmaranth · Mar 24, 2017

Emphasizing semantics above spirit of discussion. How unfortunate...

J-Machine · Mar 24, 2017

Saturosias said:
You're already wrong right there: fascio just means bundle/group, it has nothing to do with sticks. We're also not discussing fascio; fascism is derived from the word and has its own specific meaning, a sociopolitical one.
Crimes are by definition punishable by law. The company is not appealing to law; it is exercising its own freedom of association.
Any authoritarian regime operates that way, and authoritarianism does not necessitate fascism. Furthermore, neither the person you quoted nor the company is "destroying" ideas. It is their right to disassociate from those with whose ideas they disagree.

actually it had to do with a bundle of rods; made of wood. You could in theory call a stick a rod under the right circumstances...

As for the current meaning of facist... if it's context is as an insult, it can be used outside of the political spectrum. The word has adapted to mean more than it previously did (though in most cases it is used to describe an aspect of authoritarianism.) So Foxi is not wrong here

chartube12 · Mar 24, 2017

I get what foxi means about overwatch. He means the diversity of characters should feel more natural. Instead they are based on outdated and old fashion stereotyping. That's variety not diversity. It's like saying you are not racist because you hate every race equally

*have not played overwatch myself. Just stating what i believe foxi means*

Bladexdsl · Mar 24, 2017

hahaha that will teach idiot youtuberz not be be loud mouthed idiots!

Saturosias · Mar 24, 2017

TobiasAmaranth said:
Emphasizing semantics above spirit of discussion. How unfortunate...

A discussion that begins by incorrectly smearing someone and/or their ideas as "fascist" has little positive value as is. This thread is a cesspool of reactionaries who comprehend neither the concept nor the scope of free speech.

J-Machine said:
As for the current meaning of facist... if it's context is as an insult, it can be used outside of the political spectrum. The word has adapted to mean more than it previously did (though in most cases it is used to describe an aspect of authoritarianism.) So Foxi is not wrong here

The word has been co-opted* as a smear*. It also isn't "an aspect of authoritarianism"; it's the other way around: authoritarianism is a defining characteristic of fascist movements.

VashTS · Mar 24, 2017

they probably just pulled the janitor in and was like READ THIS NAOOOOWWW and just spliced it in lol

J-Machine · Mar 24, 2017

Saturosias said:
A discussion that begins by incorrectly smearing someone and/or their ideas as "fascist" has little positive value as is. This thread is a cesspool of reactionaries who comprehend neither the concept nor the scope of free speech.

The word has been co-opted* as a smear*. It also isn't "an aspect of authoritarianism"; it's the other way around: authoritarianism is a defining characteristic of fascist movements.

as I said. when used as an insult it has that connotation. whether it is apropos to the original definitions is pedantic and superfluous at this point as you are ignorantly dancing around semantics to keep up with your confirmation bias. As you can see; I have a perfectly cromulent vernacular that parrots my literacy as well. knowing words is fun and TOTALLY makes an opinion superior wouldn't you agree?

Deboog · Mar 24, 2017

Shame on Playtonic. I even unsubscribed to Jontron over his debate.
But kicking him out of the voice cast doesn't just hurt Jon, it hurts everyone who plays the game.
One of the great things about America is the freedom of thought. In Germany it is illegal to be a Neo-Nazi, but in America we appreciate that even ridiculous extreme borderline evil views have to be tolerate because sometimes they are right. Go back 100 years and try to tell people interracial marriage is okay. You'd be called a devil worshiper.

EDIT: Not calling Jontron a Neo-Nazi. Just using an extreme example to explain that I mean literally EVERYONE should have the freedom of thought.

Xzi · Mar 24, 2017

chartube12 said:
Instead they are based on outdated and old fashion stereotyping.

On some of the characters I agree, such as an American cowboy and an Asian ninja, but these were characters included more than anything else because they're video game staples, not because they're meant to represent diversity. The characters' personalities are what shine through more in terms of diversity. If Blizzard was going to go full-on stereotypical, Junkrat would throw a boomerang, Tracer would be a dude with messed up teeth and a bowler hat, Hanzo would have super slanty eyes and a more typical fu man chu, etc and so forth. In other words, character design would need to be a lot worse than it actually is in Overwatch.

Deboog said:
One of the great things about America is the freedom of thought. In Germany it is illegal to be a Neo-Nazi, but in America we appreciate that even ridiculous extreme borderline evil views have to be tolerate because sometimes they are right.

What the actual fuck. No. Just no. Extremism is the enemy of American culture and our rights. The only reason we get freedom of speech at all is because we killed so many goddamn nazis. Sick of people justifying anything in the name of tolerance, that's not the way it works.

KingVamp · Mar 24, 2017

Don't think Playtonic is necessarily wrong, but I do think it was a stupid decision. I understand companies do it all the time, but I don't think this was big enough nor was his role big enough to warrant such action. They could have just said "he doesn't represent us" and not used him from now on. That said, I think boycotting them for the decision is stupid too, especially since some wasn't planning to buy the game in the first place and dissed the game anyway. Jon himself, isn't even saying boycott the game. I understand the "principle of it all", but it just seem just as, for lack of a better word, petty as their decision. I doubt rather they let him stay in the game or kicking him out, is going much much of a difference in sells either way.

Understand protecting yourself, but I don't like the idea of your private life affecting your job, unless it directly affects the job or cause harm to people. Would things be better if there was a law in place, to not fire people base on their unharmful private life or is that still too much?

Deleted User · Mar 24, 2017

Thank god I can finally play Yooka Laylee now that one of the voice actors who has different opinions to me is finally removed.

UltraHurricane · Mar 24, 2017

chartube12 said:
I get what foxi means about overwatch. He means the diversity of characters should feel more natural. Instead they are based on outdated and old fashion stereotyping. That's variety not diversity. It's like saying you are not racist because you hate every race equally

*have not played overwatch myself. Just stating what i believe foxi means*

but what constitutes as "natural" thou? downplay their ethnicity to the point where they have no unique perspective or background? that's erasing their identity then being acknowledging of it, it may be in your face to you, but not to someone ecstatic to see representation of someone like them in a video game.

Yeah, There's a few questionable things with the character designs in Overwatch but there definitely isn't that "outdated and old fashion stereotyping" or otherwise there would be way more outrage and boycotts, and so far the only boycott of the game was people being butthurt over taking out a butt pose (ironic...)

It's silly to think that you're going to get it right the first time when trying to add diversity to something, and it's even sillier to think you should angry and spiteful with criticism and give up

Deboog · Mar 24, 2017

Xzi said:
What the actual fuck. No. Just no. Extremism is the enemy of American culture and our rights. The only reason we get freedom of speech at all is because we killed so many goddamn nazis. Sick of people justifying anything in the name of tolerance, that's not the way it works.

Hm. Then on that note I think you should be thrown in jail because according to me your opinion is extremist and the enemy of American culture.

Xzi · Mar 24, 2017

Deboog said:
Hm. Then on that note I think you should be thrown in jail because according to me your opinion is extremist and the enemy of American culture.

You think the line isn't obvious, but it is. Nazism by its very ideology means to take away the rights of (and likely kill) basically anyone not born of the proper race. That would be nearly a majority of Americans at this point. You preach nazism, and you preach war against American ideals and American lives, one in the same. Despite that level of extremism, I'm not even suggesting one should be jailed for being a nazi or neo-nazi, just that one should probably not expect any tolerance for those views from others.

Gingerbread Crumb · Mar 24, 2017

Foxi4 said:
I acknowledged that throughout the thread, that's not the topic.
Jontron must have a really hard time being a white supremacist, especially considering the fact that his father's an Iranian immigrant.

He clarified his statement several times over and isn't a white supremacist. In fact, he believes that the whole immigration discourse is too racialised which skews people's perception of statistical data.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/03/youtuber-jontron-tries-to-clarify-his-controversial-views-on-race/

Whether you find that racist or not is your business, I think he was pretty clear about what he meant to say the first time around, although his wording is admittedly clumsy. He's an entertainer, not a politician.

This right here. I dont see how a bunch of you can still think he's racist. Maybe its just the age or the fact that most people dont really understand what he's trying to say.

Deboog · Mar 24, 2017

Xzi said:
You think the line isn't obvious, but it is. Nazism by its very ideology means to take away the rights of (and likely kill) basically anyone not born of the proper race. That would be nearly a majority of Americans at this point. You preach nazism, and you preach war against American ideals and American lives, one in the same. Despite that level of extremism, I'm not even suggesting one should be jailed for being a nazi or neo-nazi, just that one should probably not expect any tolerance for those views from others.

I see your point. I guess I don't blame Playtonic. After all I unsubbed to Jon because I was mad at what he said. I guess I just wish people with different political opinions worked together better in America. I am so sick of Congress being a gridlock.

Xzi · Mar 24, 2017

Deboog said:
I see your point. I guess I don't blame Playtonic. After all I unsubbed to Jon because I was mad at what he said. I guess I just wish people with different political opinions worked together better in America. I am so sick of Congress being a gridlock.

Most of the federal government is a fucking joke right now, congress has just been a joke for even longer. Entirely too much money in politics, especially in campaigns, and I don't see Citizens' United being repealed any time soon. Meanwhile, automation is creeping up on us to take away most of the jobs, and climate change is passing the point of no return, but of course nobody wants to address the most pressing and complicated issues head on. To be fair of course, a foreign power is probably pulling the strings of the executive branch and that needs to be investigated, and there's a shitty (anti)healthcare bill that one side wants to push through, so plenty of distractions from the big issues to be had recently. The political divide will likely just grow larger for some time.

In summary, the whole shithouse is going up in flames. C'est la vie. :wtf:

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