New USA President!

the_randomizer · Jan 24, 2017

SomecallmeBerto said:
I just don't like the fact that people think that the government can fix all their problems. People need to take personal responsibilities for their own actions and lives.

I agree, government shouldn't dictate what the people should or shouldn't do as far as caring for themselves is concerned.

RevPokemon · Jan 24, 2017

the_randomizer said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree more people should be able to have insurance, and the idea behind socialized medicine is a good idea for those in the lower and middle-class. But penalizing people who don't want to or can't afford it is not the way to do it. Sure, some people use the car insurance analogy that people are required to get insurance with their car. But then again, people aren't required to get a car under US law, and therefore you don't need insurance. Penalties is the only reason I hate Obamacare. Other than that, it's not a big deal to me.

As Gov. Ventura said

"They made healthcare at the whim of the insurance companies," He said. "Notice who is running healthcare. It's not the doctor, not the nurses, it is the insurance companies."

the_randomizer · Jan 24, 2017

RevPokemon said:
As Gov. Ventura said

"They made healthcare at the whim of the insurance companies," He said. "Notice who is running healthcare. It's not the doctor, not the nurses, it is the insurance companies."

Yeah, and they're only making it worse, with premiums stupidly increasing every year. It's another reason why I refuse to waste my paychecks on Obamacare, I have enough financial issues of my own

Blood Fetish · Jan 24, 2017

You pay for everyone's medical treatment one way or another. Might as well take the most fiscally conservative route, which is preventative care.

Logan Pockrus · Jan 24, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
This might be true, but they still deserve to be treated as human beings

Sure, they should be treated as human beings, but that doesn't mean I want them in my country. I don't think deporting illegal immigrants is immoral or inhumane.

TotalInsanity4 · Jan 24, 2017

Logan Pockrus said:
Sure, they should be treated as human beings, but that doesn't mean I want them in my country. I don't think deporting illegal immigrants is immoral or inhumane.

Unless you're deporting them to a region that's inhospitable

Honestly I think the best thing we could do for American migration would be to create an American Union, where it's easy to get a passport and citizenship in one country automatically puts you in a shared database allowing you to move freely between member states (for instance, America, Mexico and Canada would become united in terms of migration, along with potentially parts of South America)

Blood Fetish · Jan 24, 2017

That would add roughly 100 million central and southern Americans to the US population.

RevPokemon · Jan 24, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Honestly I think the best thing we could do for American migration would be to create an American Union, where it's easy to get a passport and citizenship in one country automatically puts you in a shared database allowing you to move freely between member states (for instance, America, Mexico and Canada would become united in terms of migration, along with potentially parts of South America)

That will never happen and arguably should never happen but I do agree with the point that migration should have much less (or imo no) restrictions...

Blood Fetish said:
That would add roughly 100 million central and southern Americans to the US population.

But if that were the case than it would make sense to stay as you would have more resources...

TotalInsanity4 · Jan 24, 2017

Blood Fetish said:
That would add roughly 100 million central and southern Americans to the US population.

Not necessarily, look at how the EU does it. Citizens of member countries still have to meet citizenship requirements to, well, gain citizenship in a country, but they're free to work and live wherever they want in the Union

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

RevPokemon said:
That will never happen and arguably should never happen

Yeah, it's probably just the dirty globalist/socialist in me dreaming

but I do agree with the point that migration should have much less (or imo no) restrictions...

I'd argue that with the conservative fear of not having a database of who's where at what time, that's even less likely to happen

RevPokemon · Jan 24, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Yeah, it's probably just the dirty globalist/socialist in me dreaming

Or the paranoid libertarian in me

TotalInsanity4 said:
I'd argue that with the conservative fear of not having a database of who's where at what time, that's even less likely to happen

Issue would be how civil libertarians would view the process

Logan Pockrus · Jan 24, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Unless you're deporting them to a region that's inhospitable

Honestly I think the best thing we could do for American migration would be to create an American Union, where it's easy to get a passport and citizenship in one country automatically puts you in a shared database allowing you to move freely between member states (for instance, America, Mexico and Canada would become united in terms of migration, along with potentially parts of South America)

If the region's inhospitable, that sucks for them. Should've immigrated legally. I don't get why they can't just choose the legal way, it's not like any sensible person dislikes legal immigrants.

Blood Fetish · Jan 24, 2017

Logan Pockrus said:
If the region's inhospitable, that sucks for them. Should've immigrated legally. I don't get why they can't just choose the legal way, it's not like any sensible person dislikes legal immigrants.

It takes a lot of years and a lot of money. Your average dirt farmer has neither. You glibly trivialize this matter to the degree that I can only assume you lack even the most fundamental understanding of the process.

el_gonz87 · Jan 24, 2017

TotalInsanity4 said:
Not necessarily, look at how the EU does it. Citizens of member countries still have to meet citizenship requirements to, well, gain citizenship in a country, but they're free to work and live wherever they want in the Union

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Yeah, it's probably just the dirty globalist/socialist in me dreaming

I'd argue that with the conservative fear of not having a database of who's where at what time, that's even less likely to happen

Don't know much about the EU. But is there a country which has drug cartels having wars in Europe? Don't know that a regional passport would work all that well.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Blood Fetish said:
It takes a lot of years and a lot of money. Your average dirt farmer has neither. You glibly trivialize this matter to the degree that I can only assume you lack even the most fundamental understanding of the process.

So please explain to me how that has anything to do with OUR citizens and OUR laws? I'd love for the world to be great like America, but since I live here and we only have control of this country, it's our government duty to protect its citizens and uphold its laws first and foremost. Don't get why we need to save the world when we have our own issues here...

SomecallmeBerto · Jan 24, 2017

Yeah I have to give it to @Blood Fetish here

Immigration has wayyyyyyyy too much bureaucracy behind it. While this is only anecdotal evidence I know someone who was here illegally for about 15 years.(not their fault parents brought them here when they were a child) when she found out about it she immediately applied for citizenship. Now keep in midn this person was a very productive member of society, job, spoke prefect English the works and it still took 6 years.

Logan Pockrus · Jan 24, 2017

Blood Fetish said:
It takes a lot of years and a lot of money. Your average dirt farmer has neither. You glibly trivialize this matter to the degree that I can only assume you lack even the most fundamental understanding of the process.

I know what it takes. And I don't give a damn. They enter legally, or not at all. I know that probably sounds rash or ignorant, but I don't have even the slightest of sympathy for those who decide they can enter "just because". By entering illegally, it displays your disrespect for America, America's laws, legal immigrants who actually went through the process, etc.

SomecallmeBerto said:
Yeah I have to give it to @Blood Fetish here

Immigration has wayyyyyyyy too much bureaucracy behind it. While this is only anecdotal evidence I know someone who was here illegally for about 15 years.(not their fault parents brought them here when they were a child) when she found out about it she immediately applied for citizenship. Now keep in midn this person was a very productive member of society, job, spoke prefect English the works and it still took 6 years.

Can't fault a child brought here illegally, it wasn't their choice. And good for her that she applied for citizenship. Anyway, what would you do to improve the immigration process, were you to be in a position to do so (that's a legitimate question, not an argument)?

SomecallmeBerto · Jan 24, 2017

Logan Pockrus said:
I know what it takes. And I don't give a damn. They enter legally, or not at all. I know that probably sounds rash or ignorant, but I don't have even the slightest of sympathy for those who decide they can enter "just because". By entering illegally, it displays your disrespect for America, America's laws, legal immigrants who actually went through the process, etc.

Can't fault a child brought here illegally, it wasn't their choice. And good for her that she applied for citizenship. Anyway, what would you do to improve the immigration process, were you to be in a position to do so (that's a legitimate question, not an argument)?

Well first and foremost the cost are out of control. Lawyer fees can easily cost 5K to 20K(note that 10K seems to be the average). Second the process itself is not very clear. The problem seems to be that the ones trying to get in are never really sure if A. the qualify or B. how far they are in the process of getting citizenship. This part is mostly do to the backlog of people they are looking into. On average it can take about 12 months until someone even looks at your file. The entire thing needs to rebuilt from the ground up.

What I would do is create a 2 page document that basically spells out how to become a US citizen. The entire immigration department needs to be expanded.(it's just not meeting demand) Though I can say for sure what kind experience you would need to push these kinds of paper I'm sure it's not something that requires years of schooling. I'm not sure what can be done about lawyer fees. As I understand it these are not government lawyers so it's not on the tax payer's dime.

Logan Pockrus · Jan 24, 2017

SomecallmeBerto said:
Well first and foremost the cost are out of control. Lawyer fees can easily cost 5K to 20K(note that 10K seems to be the average). Second the process itself is not very clear. The problem seems to be that the ones trying to get in are never really sure if A. the qualify or B. how far they are in the process of getting citizenship. This part is mostly do to the backlog of people they are looking into. On average it can take about 12 months until someone even looks at your file. The entire thing needs to rebuilt from the ground up.

What I would do is create a 2 page document that basically spells out how to become a US citizen. The entire immigration department needs to be expanded.(it's just not meeting demand) Though I can say for sure what kind experience you would need to push these kinds of paper I'm sure it's not something that requires years of schooling. I'm not sure what can be done about lawyer fees. As I understand it these are not government lawyers so it's not on the tax payer's dime.

You make a good point with your additions to the system. As for the paragraph above, it comes as no surprise that the process is, to sum it all up, "tedious". I wouldn't say that the "tediousness" of the process is grounds for lightening up on illegal immigrants, but you could make that case.

SahierKHLover · Jan 24, 2017

el_gonz87 said:
Lol getting kicked out?? If you are here legally, that's not a possibility, but you can fear the boogeyman if you want (waste of time).

BTW the overwhelming majority of people against Islamic Extremism are not against Islam. Just because someone supports Trump, doesn't make them a bigot.

welp this is why people like me should pay attention during civics (I hate history and stuff related to it I enjoy history that is about islam and the other monotheistic religions.) and wow I really need to learn this stuff again(I am in 9/10th grade and I don't remember any of these things)

Joe88 · Jan 24, 2017

invaderyoyo · Jan 24, 2017

Joe88 said:

Those are just complete dumbasses. Who knows if these people even really care about politics.

Unrelated: Idk if this has been posted yet, but I thought it was funny.

New USA President!

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