Reggie Fils-Aimé explains how Nintendo will not repeat Wii U mistakes for the NX

Jacklack3 · Aug 27, 2016

FAST6191 said:
Why do I want unique consoles rather than a DVD player what also does games.

Equally I fear you might benefit from reading up on the hardware specs of the consoles from the times mentioned. There were real differences for all consoles up until around the PS360 (one was a powerpc with directX9 grade graphics and the other was a slightly different but broadly similar powerpc with directX9 grade graphics), and definitely back in the 80s -- SNES, Amiga and megadrive was pretty radically different in CPU, graphics, cart design, sound chips and more besides, NES and master system/commodore64/TG16.... and it only gets worse.

When I meant they are the same, i mean't the same mechanic.

Now Nintendo is trying to bring new mechanics to the table, like have a touch screen on a controller which makes it so the Video Game industry isn't repetitive.

Master Mo · Aug 27, 2016

Voxel said:
..., and we continue to believe that the innovation of the second screen was a worthwhile concept...

Are you sure Reggie?! Because Zelda BotW says otherwise!

I still cannot believe that game doesn`t have gamepad-features! The fact that they don`t have a gamepad integration in the new Zelda is probably the thing I am most disappointed off with Nintendo in a very long time...

He is right though but I think tha`t was not hard to figure out considering I was also very confused with the WiiU when it was first unveiled and I always have followed games media extensively!

FAST6191 · Aug 27, 2016

Jacklack3 said:
When I meant they are the same, i mean't the same mechanic.

Now Nintendo is trying to bring new mechanics to the table, like have a touch screen on a controller which makes it so the Video Game industry isn't repetitive.

I am not convinced unique is a substitute for good; people seem to cling to the word for reasons I am never sure of. That said even if it is the case then why do they need their own console? Controllers have had reasonably high bandwidth USB or common enough protocol wireless for years now.

Equally I am not sure I want to put the burden of innovation at Nintendo's feet, or diss the others and say they don't try.

On second screens. As a gameplay concept it had loads of potential -- hidden/incomplete information is a fundamental concept in game theory and thus game design, LAN and online play banks on it, even the humble link cable plays to it, how many board games/card games use it... it just seemed to woefully under used/explored. On the DS it, though less as hidden information, had loads of use but on high resolution screens I am less convinced, though the touch aspect is nice for a bunch of things.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

FAST6191 said:
I am not convinced unique is a substitute for good; people seem to cling to the word for reasons I am never sure of. That said even if it is the case then why do they need their own console? Controllers have had reasonably high bandwidth USB or common enough protocol wireless for years now.

Equally I am not sure I want to put the burden of innovation at Nintendo's feet, or diss the others and say they don't try.

On second screens. As a gameplay concept it had loads of potential -- hidden/incomplete information is a fundamental concept in game theory and thus game design, LAN and online play banks on it, even the humble link cable plays to it, how many board games/card games use it... it just seemed to woefully under used/explored. On the DS it, though less as hidden information, had loads of use but on high resolution screens I am less convinced, though the touch aspect is nice for a bunch of things.

I think the NX will really make use of that hidden potential.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Master Mo said:
Are you sure Reggie?! Because Zelda BotW says otherwise!

I still cannot believe that game doesn`t have gamepad-features! The fact that they don`t have a gamepad integration in the new Zelda is probably the thing I am most disappointed off with Nintendo in a very long time...

He is right though but I think tha`t was not hard to figure out considering I was also very confused with the WiiU when it was first unveiled and I always have followed games media extensively!

The gampad features probably didnt show up as they hadnt completed them yet, seeing as how they had massive issues with the physics engine, im not surprised that what we got in the demo was an empty world with nothing in it (i bet they'd let us explore if they actually completed anything)

FrozenDragon150 · Aug 27, 2016

Just saying, thks article is but a skimmed down version of this one.

http://nintendoeverything.com/reggi...-nx-mobile-merchandise-universal-partnership/

I'm pretty sure everyone has read the first one, but read this one too as it contains more info on the whole review.

mechagouki · Aug 27, 2016

TheKawaiiDesu said:
I wasn't talking about the internals, but about the experience. Yes, of course they use custom chips and are different from PCs in many ways, but in terms of games, most of them (well, I admit there are a few good exclusives on PS4) are available on PC. I don't think anyone bought the XBOne simply because it uses an AMD CPU, but rather to play games that are interesting, the same way people buy (or don't buy) a Wii U because of its games, and in particular exclusives.

See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.

Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired.

I feel they might do better with a comparably powered current-gen console and some investment in finding a Halo/Uncharted quality killer app. There's actually tons of console exclusive games on the Wii U, it's just most of them aren't very good. Nostalgia will only carry you so far.

As for Reggie, clock's ticking I fear.

FrozenDragon150 · Aug 27, 2016

mechagouki said:
See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.

Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired.

I feel they might do better with a comparably powered current-gen console and some investment in finding a Halo/Uncharted quality killer app. There's actually tons of console exclusive games on the Wii U, it's just most of them aren't very good. Nostalgia will only carry you so far.

As for Reggie, clock's ticking I fear.

Wrong in all accounts.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

mechagouki said:
See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.

Both Microsoft and Sony have plenty of exclusive IPs, Nintendo certainly isn't unique on that front, in fact I suspect part of Nintendo's problem is that it continues to regurgitate the same old games it's been making since the mid 1980s and using quirky hardware to try and refresh the experience. Sometimes they pull it off, but the whole Nintendo universe is still starting to feel a little tired.

I feel they might do better with a comparably powered current-gen console and some investment in finding a Halo/Uncharted quality killer app. There's actually tons of console exclusive games on the Wii U, it's just most of them aren't very good. Nostalgia will only carry you so far.

As for Reggie, clock's ticking I fear.

They havent been regurgitating games most of their exclusives have been new in some way, name me one thats literally the same game (even nsmbu has some interesting new features)

FAST6191 · Aug 27, 2016

mechagouki said:
See how much you have to spend on a PC to have a gaming experience comparable to a current generation console, that's why people buy consoles.

I remember speccing a roughly equivalent to the PS4 system back just before its release. Was just about doable as an alternative to the console (definitely if you went for two controllers and stuck a year's online subscription on there). You consider that if you need a PC then the 200 you spend on that plus another 400 instead of the console and it was easy. That was however many years ago too, right now it is not even close.

Time was the whole loss leader or radically different specs thing made a difference but these days it is not so bad.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

IDK why people are saying NX will be weak because it runs ARM and has a mobile chip, did everyone forget the supplementary computing drive patent? This console is modular, it's not what consoles are like now, it'll get continuos hardware revisions that wont encroach on older hardware since the hardware revisions are just upgraded pieces of the older hardware which itself can be upgraded by adding an additional piece of hardware.

Noctosphere · Aug 27, 2016

Lets just hope the NX will be hackable...
no, lets hope it wont get DELAYED LIKE ZELDA U/NX

Foxi4 · Aug 27, 2016

FAST6191 said:
Why do I want unique consoles rather than a DVD player what also does games.

Equally I fear you might benefit from reading up on the hardware specs of the consoles from the times mentioned. There were real differences for all consoles up until around the PS360 (one was a powerpc with directX9 grade graphics and the other was a slightly different but broadly similar powerpc with directX9 grade graphics), and definitely back in the 80s -- SNES, Amiga and megadrive was pretty radically different in CPU, graphics, cart design, sound chips and more besides, NES and master system/commodore64/TG16.... and it only gets worse.

FAST, what you're saying is demonstrably false. The NES uses a modified MOS 6502 (Ricoh 2A03), it's in the same family of hardware as the Commodore 64 (MOS 6510) or Atari 8-bit computers (MOS 6502B/C "Sally"). Similarly the SNES uses a Ricoh 5A22, which is a modified WDC 65C816, the CPU used in the Apple IIGS line of computers, which in itself is a modified MOS 6502. Things are even more straightforward with the Master System which uses a Zilog Z80 used in the ZX Spectrum or the Game Boy and the Mega Drive which uses a Motorola 68000 as the primary CPU, which can also be found in the Commodore Amiga, the Apple Mac, the Neo Geo or the Atari ST, and the previously mentioned Zilog Z80 as a secondary CPU, both of which are used across a variety of electronic devices. If your argument here is that they were used somewhat creatively to squeeze every ounce of processing power then that's true today as well, if what you're saying is that they were heavily customised systems then again, this is also still the case. The only thing you could say is than none really followed any particular standard of what a gaming machine should do, but only by the virtue of the fact that no such standards existed. The PC was still a long way ahead of us and various different computers were available on the market instead - consoles used the same hardware as those computers. Regarding "DirectX 9", again, no such standards existed, really - "libraries", "engines" or "hardware acceleration" were distant dreams as most code was written as platform-specific. All of the systems you mention are derivative of pre-existing computers and processors, they're just redesigned to be fit for purpose, as are modern consoles, the difference being that today we're not walking blind in the darkness nearly as often.

mechagouki · Aug 27, 2016

FrozenDragon150 said:
Wrong in all accounts.

Well that's a considered and well argued rebuttal. (hint: sarcasm)

TheDarkGreninja said:
They havent been regurgitating games most of their exclusives have been new in some way, name me one thats literally the same game (even nsmbu has some interesting new features)

"Regurgitating" does not imply the same product re-released (though Nintendo have definitely been doing that going all the way back to Super Mario All-Stars), when you regurgitate food, it doesn't quite look the same does it? But it is essentially the same with just a little new material added (gag).

Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D World are two that immediately spring to mind. I'm not some anti-Nintendo person, I bought NES, Gameboy, SNES, GBC, N64 at launch, I bought SMB 2 and 3 day of release. Yoshi's island, Link to the Past, Super Metroid and ocarina are all comfortably in my top 10 ever. Gamecube had some great games, but though I own a Wii, it's never really been my go to console. Never bought a Wii U, and you know what, that doesn't put me in a minority, there's various reasons behind Wii U's poor sales, and a lacklustre games library is a big one.

I'd take a good look at the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_U_video_games

i see one new IP in that list (Splatoon - or "the bastard child of Team Fortress and Super Mario Sunshine" as I like to think of it), everything else is derivative or sequel.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

mechagouki said:
Well that's a considered and well argued rebuttal. (hint: sarcasm)

"Regurgitating" does not imply the same product re-released (though Nintendo have definitely been doing that going all the way back to Super Mario All-Stars), when you regurgitate food, it doesn't quite look the same does it? But it is essentially the same with just a little new material added (gag).

Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D World are two that immediately spring to mind. I'm not some anti-Nintendo person, I bought NES, Gameboy, SNES, GBC, N64 at launch, I bought SMB 2 and 3 day of release. Yoshi's island, Link to the Past, Super Metroid and ocarina are all comfortably in my top 10 ever. Gamecube had some great games, but though I own a Wii, it's never really been my go to console. Never bought a Wii U, and you know what, that doesn't put me in a minority, there's various reasons behind Wii U's poor sales, and a lacklustre games library is a big one.

I'd take a good look at the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_U_video_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_U_video_games
i see one new IP in that list (Splatoon - or "the bastard child of Team Fortress and Super Mario Sunshine" as I like to think of it), everything else is derivative or sequel.

What are you meant to expect? Name me another company that makes multiple new ip's. Somewhat ignorant imo. Now, if a game makes money company will make a sequel is that too hard to understand? Nintendo and basically every dev on earth makes a few unique ip's and sticks with them.

EmulateLife · Aug 27, 2016

Wii believe it or not was Nintendo's most successful home console ever in both console sales and game sales while Wii U had the lowest sales in both. So from best to worst I have a feeling though if NX is a hybrid home console/handheld it will do well because of how successful their handhelds are, and companies like Take Two are already coming out voicing their support for it. Only time will tell.

FAST6191 · Aug 27, 2016

Yeah probably should have paused before adding the non sega-nintendo stuff. I am not sure I would make the NES to Apple IIGS to SNES leap either, or at least not any more than an i7 resembles a 386 (well maybe p4 to 386). Similarly while I can't disagree on the ST thing that is reaching a bit -- you say Atari platform (as opposed to dev/publisher) and nobody thinks ST; that was their throwing stuff at the wall stage. It might be possible to say we are both a bit CPU centric as well, whenever I learn one of these older consoles then even if it is a new CPU it is more the architecture and sound chips and such that gets the real time spent on it -- when it comes to in hardware sprite bothering the 6502 stuff is often not even close to each other. CPU wise in some ways it is a bit like saying one thing is derivative of the other because they both use an atmel microcontroller today, especially if you want to compare the amiga architecture to other things.

On standards then yeah, though I might argue arcades provided a standard of sorts for gaming, though perhaps considerably more aspirational than a derivation like today. That or I do not notice PC ports being superior as much as I did back when.

Hardware used creatively. For as much as I like to diss game devs from me there is no argument that there are some seriously talented people playing in that world, however everything I have seen is more twisting towards something (oh this has fast GPU bandwidth so, while this has crazy shader performance so in optimisation) than hardware and backwards from there to get the game (you don't get mode7 on a megadrive sort of thing).

On directX9 then the common was more for the PS36- stuff and the chips involved were those seen in some of the last DX9 graphics cards so while I agree it is not much of a standard in the strictest sense it did provide a useful enough baseline and explains some of the things we saw on PC -- I am not inclined to put the failure to catch on of directx 10 solely at the feet of Vista.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

FAST6191 said:
Yeah probably should have paused before adding the non sega-nintendo stuff. I am not sure I would make the NES to Apple IIGS to SNES leap either, or at least not any more than an i7 resembles a 386 (well maybe p4 to 386). Similarly while I can't disagree on the ST thing that is reaching a bit -- you say Atari platform (as opposed to dev/publisher) and nobody thinks ST; that was their throwing stuff at the wall stage. It might be possible to say we are both a bit CPU centric as well, whenever I learn one of these older consoles then even if it is a new CPU it is more the architecture and sound chips and such that gets the real time spent on it -- when it comes to in hardware sprite bothering the 6502 stuff is often not even close to each other. CPU wise in some ways it is a bit like saying one thing is derivative of the other because they both use an atmel microcontroller today, especially if you want to compare the amiga architecture to other things.

On standards then yeah, though I might argue arcades provided a standard of sorts for gaming, though perhaps considerably more aspirational than a derivation like today. That or I do not notice PC ports being superior as much as I did back when.

Hardware used creatively. For as much as I like to diss game devs from me there is no argument that there are some seriously talented people playing in that world, however everything I have seen is more twisting towards something (oh this has fast GPU bandwidth so, while this has crazy shader performance so in optimisation) than hardware and backwards from there to get the game (you don't get mode7 on a megadrive sort of thing).

On directX9 then the common was more for the PS36- stuff and the chips involved were those seen in some of the last DX9 graphics cards so while I agree it is not much of a standard in the strictest sense it did provide a useful enough baseline and explains some of the things we saw on PC -- I am not inclined to put the failure to catch on of directx 10 solely at the feet of Vista.

Who are you replying to? this seems quite out of the blue.

Deleted member 370671 · Aug 27, 2016

TheDarkGreninja said:
Who are you replying to? this seems quite out of the blue.

Probably to Foxi4:

Foxi4 said:
FAST, what you're saying is demonstrably false. The NES uses a modified MOS 6502 (Ricoh 2A03), it's in the same family of hardware as the Commodore 64 (MOS 6510) or Atari 8-bit computers (MOS 6502B/C "Sally"). Similarly the SNES uses a Ricoh 5A22, which is a modified WDC 65C816, the CPU used in the Apple IIGS line of computers, which in itself is a modified MOS 6502. Things are even more straightforward with the Master System which uses a Zilog Z80 used in the ZX Spectrum or the Game Boy and the Mega Drive which uses a Motorola 68000 as the primary CPU, which can also be found in the Commodore Amiga, the Apple Mac, the Neo Geo or the Atari ST, and the previously mentioned Zilog Z80 as a secondary CPU, both of which are used across a variety of electronic devices. If your argument here is that they were used somewhat creatively to squeeze every ounce of processing power then that's true today as well, if what you're saying is that they were heavily customised systems then again, this is also still the case. The only thing you could say is than none really followed any particular standard of what a gaming machine should do, but only by the virtue of the fact that no such standards existed. The PC was still a long way ahead of us and various different computers were available on the market instead - consoles used the same hardware as those computers. Regarding "DirectX 9", again, no such standards existed, really - "libraries", "engines" or "hardware acceleration" were distant dreams as most code was written as platform-specific. All of the systems you mention are derivative of pre-existing computers and processors, they're just redesigned to be fit for purpose, as are modern consoles, the difference being that today we're not walking blind in the darkness nearly as often.

FAST6191 · Aug 27, 2016

Foxi4, it is only three posts up when I posted that and was the last post as I got back here to start typing.

TheDarkGreninja · Aug 27, 2016

FAST6191 said:
Foxi4, it is only three posts up when I posted that and was the last post as I got back here to start typing.

Ah i didnt see his post.

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