Hacking Does Arm9loaderhax Circumvent Copyright Protections?

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

This will probably turn into some shit storm or endless debate but does it? Also would you agree or disagree that the purpose of arm9loaderhax is to explicitly circumvent copyright protections.

VinsCool · Jun 30, 2016

Honestly, I don't get your question.

proflayton123 · Jun 30, 2016

In a sense it does, although..

Duo8 · Jun 30, 2016

Yes of course

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

Duo8 said:
Yes of course

Care to go deeper?

zoogie · Jun 30, 2016

Yes, it circumvents security. Namely the rsa signed firms that Nintendo intends to boot.

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

zoogie said:
Yes, it circumvents security. Namely the rsa signed firms that Nintendo intends to boot.

Would you agree that every CFW for the 3DS released publicly does this?

zoogie · Jun 30, 2016

Xenon Hacks said:
Would you agree that every CFW for the 3DS released publicly does this?

If a cfw disables one or more security features that allows unsigned code to run. Yes. ("custom" firmware basically confirms this)
I don't think that (© circumvention) necessarily equates to piracy, but it's certainly required for piracy.

chaoskagami · Jun 30, 2016

Technically, yes and no. That depends on whether you consider the software provided with the 3DS to be part of the console. If it's argued in court that the software on-console is inseparable from the console, then whatever I do with the hardware is my business. If not, then yes it is circumvention. Anyways, that's for a court to decide.

Once you add a CFW to the mix, the answer is always yes - the signature check is undoubtedly copyright circumvention. Whether that's legal or not is left to the user and the laws of their own country.

Running homebrew only is undoubtedly 100% legal in the US (the portable computing device exemption), whereas in other countries even that may not be legal.

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

zoogie said:
If a cfw disables one or more security features that allows unsigned code to run. Yes.
I don't think that necessarily equates to piracy, but it's certainly required for piracy.

chaoskagami said:
Technically, yes and no. That depends on whether you consider the software provided with the 3DS to be part of the console. If it's argued in court that the software on-console is inseparable from the console, then whatever I do with the hardware is my business. If not, then yes it is circumvention. Anyways, that's for a court to decide.

Once you add a CFW to the mix, the answer is always yes - the signature check is undoubtedly copyright circumvention. Whether that's legal or not is left to the user and the laws of their own country.

Running homebrew only is undoubtedly 100% legal in the US (the portable computing device exemption), whereas in other countries even that may not be legal.

Could one consider this the same as jailbreaking an iPhone, your unlocking it to do things unintended by the manufacturer but are not providing anything illegal with it no?

zoogie · Jun 30, 2016

Xenon Hacks said:
Could one consider this the same as jailbreaking an iPhone, your unlocking it to do things unintended by the manufacturer but are not providing anything illegal with it no?

An exception was made in the DMCA for jailbreaking phones. That doesn't exist for consoles.

chaoskagami · Jun 30, 2016

Xenon Hacks said:
Could one consider this the same as jailbreaking an iPhone, your unlocking it to do things unintended by the manufacturer but are not providing anything illegal with it no?

I'd say it's the same thing as jailbreaking, honestly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Anti-circumvention_exemptions

As long as you aren't pirating off the app store or eShop, there's no problem with it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

zoogie said:
An exception was made in the DMCA for jailbreaking phones. That doesn't exist for consoles.

Wrong. That was extended in 2015 to 'smartphones and portable all-purpose mobile computing devices'. You can thank the EFF for that one. Whether the 3DS classifies as such would be for debate, but I personally consider it one.

EmperorOfCanada · Jun 30, 2016

Xenon Hacks said:
Could one consider this the same as jailbreaking an iPhone, your unlocking it to do things unintended by the manufacturer but are not providing anything illegal with it no?

I consider it the 3ds equivalent, certainly. I Dont know how a court might interpret it.

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

zoogie said:
An exception was made in the DMCA for jailbreaking phones. That doesn't exist for consoles.

That's unfortunate

chaoskagami said:
I'd say it's the same thing as jailbreaking, honestly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Anti-circumvention_exemptions

As long as you aren't pirating off the app store or eShop, there's no problem with it.

I side with this more but the current laws say otherwise its to slippery

proflayton123 · Jun 30, 2016

Interesting answers along the thread

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

Well lets say a console has a NAND backup on the SD that contains Arm9loaderhax but is not installed to the console would you consider that to enabling piracy? I know im playing 20 questions with you guys but I legitimately want to know these things.

chaoskagami · Jun 30, 2016

Xenon Hacks said:
Well lets say a console has a NAND backup on the SD that contains Arm9loaderhax but is not installed to the console would you consider that to enabling piracy? I know im playing 20 questions with you guys but I legitimately want to know these things.

I'd say a NAND dump counts as a backup under law, so as long as only one is kept for archival only, it would be okay. Then again, we all keep more than one backup I'm sure.

EmuNAND may be questionable in use depending on how Nintendo's license reads, because you're running a backup and the original.

dubbz82 · Jun 30, 2016

I'm voting no. My logic behind this, is although it's most certainly CAPABLE of loading up pirate content, it can also be used to load homebrew in cia format as well, in much the same manner as jailbreaking an iphone can allow unauthorized software as well as pirate content to be loaded onto an iphone/ipod/etc. Legally it's probably grey area in the US at least, and there's probably no solid answer on it at the moment.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

chaoskagami said:
I'd say a NAND dump counts as a backup under law, so as long as only one is kept for archival only, it would be okay. Then again, we all keep more than one backup I'm sure.

EmuNAND may be questionable in use depending on how Nintendo's license reads, because you're running a backup and the original.

Do note though, that Nintendo's license has exactly zero to do with the law itself. They don't dictate what is/isn't legally allowable, but rather what's considered allowable within their terms of use (i.e. to maintain warranty, etc.)

Xenon Hacks · Jun 30, 2016

dubbz82 said:
I'm voting no. My logic behind this, is although it's most certainly CAPABLE of loading up pirate content, it can also be used to load homebrew in cia format as well, in much the same manner as jailbreaking an iphone can allow unauthorized software as well as pirate content to be loaded onto an iphone/ipod/etc. Legally it's probably grey area in the US at least, and there's probably no solid answer on it at the moment.

This is my thinking as well after sitting with the thought in my head but I cannot find any legal basis to support either side besides the digital millennium act. From what I get its legal but Nintendo could basically tell you to not do it because they own the console?

zoogie · Jun 30, 2016

chaoskagami said:
I'd say it's the same thing as jailbreaking, honestly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Anti-circumvention_exemptions

As long as you aren't pirating off the app store or eShop, there's no problem with it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wrong. That was extended in 2015 to 'smartphones and portable all-purpose mobile computing devices'. You can thank the EFF for that one. Whether the 3DS classifies as such would be for debate, but I personally consider it one.

No, you're still wrong:

You're still not allowed to jailbreak e-readers, handheld gaming devices, or laptops and desktop computers. Video game consoles are also off limits, as the Library of Congress found that, "as in 2012, opponents provided substantial evidence that console jailbreaking is closely tied to video game piracy."

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/27/...-smart-tvs-dmca-exemption-library-of-congress

Hacking Does Arm9loaderhax Circumvent Copyright Protections?

Does Arm9loaderhax Circumvent Copyright Protections?

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